Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#150188 Jan 26, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't really remember.
Do you have anything that would jog my memory? It's getting fuzzy!
It's getting really really fuzzy. I think it's disappearing!
The secrets of the universe....just floating away!!!
NOOOOOOOO!! NO NO NO!! WE CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN!!!!!

Should i get my belly dancing hip scarf on? It might just work, u know, help u focus!!

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#150189 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You'd be correct if God was just an idea.
Until someone proves otherwise, your god (like all the other gods) IS just an idea....

Since: Sep 08

La Junta, CO

#150190 Jan 26, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not necessarily.
<quoted text>
Not even a question that makes sense.
<quoted text>
Where are you getting 'outermost' and 'innermost' forces????
<quoted text>
or not. Wait, definitely not.
<quoted text>
What *are* you babbling about? Let's face it. You have NO idea how modern physics actually works. You have read a couple of popular articles and perhaps a wikipedia article that you didn't understand.
You do the babbling. You don't even understand the basic setup.

What is this "modern physics" you refer to? A glorified math game?

Youngblood, I have considerable experience in applied physics. I am the Jesus of the junkpile due to my ability to resurrect dead machines and objects. I have constructed structures over large distances with high degrees of accuracy, moved heavy objects in tight spaces where one misstep could do irreparable damage to my existence all by myself. I have played with fire since being a young boy, stripped engines, repaired and tuned electrical, electronic, and and mechanical devices by the hundreds, have considerable experience in ballistics, and just flat out have a high aptitude for understanding how things work. With some formal training thrown in.

Do you really, really think you have a better grasp of physics than I do?

Your experience seems to be reading and speculating on the micro, that which is beyond our vision. You are subscribing to a belief system. You are doing nothing more than any other religion.

That religion of yours started out observing the macro, the stuff I am quite familiar with, and deducing by effects what the micro is assumed to be, and how it is constructed. But it took a wrong turn some time back and became a religion of math, not of reality.

A neutral atom is supposed to exist all by itself. If it is charged it interacts with others. They are discrete energy transfer devices. By the proclamation of modern physics, they are all contained within a larger system of energy transfers. Their individual configuration is determined by the configuration of the whole.

You are spouting nonsense, small portions of the entire picture. You evidently don't know how to tie them all together. Like learning verses in Sunday School.
Imhotep

United States

#150191 Jan 26, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
There’s a inaccuracy in your statement. First you claim “all” the disciples then you give the scripture reference that says “some.” You contradicted yourself immensely.
There among the disciples that day when Jesus spoke was John. He is also known as John the revelator. It was on the island of Patmos when saw into the future of things to come. The prophecy did not fail but was fulfilled through John’s revelations.
I do thank you for pointing this out.
Let's look at the facts. Jesus said absolutely nothing about the death he described in Matt 16:27-28 as being only a "spiritual death".

Jesus flatly declared, or more precisely, the unknown author of the Gospel of Matthew portrays Jesus as saying that some of his associates would not taste death before he came in his kingdom WITH angels and rewards.

The verses mean exactly what they say, and they say that some of the associates of Jesus would still be alive when he returned in his kingdom with angels and rewards.

The prophecy failed.

Prov 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Take heed Christian. Do not add to the words of God or manipulate his holy word to suit your needs.

Jesus has never come back to earth with angels and rewards and set up his kingdom within the time frame he said he would.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#150192 Jan 26, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
Then I guess I am correct. There is no evidence that God is anything other than an idea inside the heads of believers.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, my friend.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#150193 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
It's supposed to sound like I'm sick n tired of writing the same shit over & over for you people.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/sca...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#150194 Jan 26, 2013
Just Think wrote:
Until someone proves otherwise, your god (like all the other gods) IS just an idea....
Well, at least you're acknowledging that someone might be able to scientifically prove the non-scientific realm...

That's a good start!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#150195 Jan 26, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
Let's look at the facts. Jesus said absolutely nothing about the death he described in Matt 16:27-28 as being only a "spiritual death".
Jesus flatly declared, or more precisely, the unknown author of the Gospel of Matthew portrays Jesus as saying that some of his associates would not taste death before he came in his kingdom WITH angels and rewards.
The verses mean exactly what they say, and they say that some of the associates of Jesus would still be alive when he returned in his kingdom with angels and rewards.
The prophecy failed.
Silly.... Jesus still has about 2.2 billion "associates".....

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150196 Jan 26, 2013
NeuroRev wrote:
We could have millions of people screaming and chanting that the moon is made of cheese. This would be a mass spectacle, and it would be tempting to assume that because so many people believe it, it must be true... Even if 500 million or 2 billion people are simultaneously chanting and strongly believing this, it does not have any impact on reality. It simply distorts perception of reality, which most people get easily taken in by. All you would need to disprove this massive 2 billion strong delusion is a small moon rock that will fit on the palm of your hand. That's it. It is a sample from the moon. It is chemically and structurally compared to cheese and has no resemblance to it. Therefore the moon is not made of cheese. 2 billion people chanting and screaming "the moon is made of cheese! The moon is made of cheese! I believe the moon is made of cheese! We believe the moon is made of cheese! We believe it!!! We believe it!!!" means nothing and fails in any way to change reality. It is just a mass (2 billion strong) mega-delusion. The tiny moon rock is still closer to truth than 2 billion deluded screaming people...
I like cheese.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#150197 Jan 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You do the babbling. You don't even understand the basic setup.
What is this "modern physics" you refer to? A glorified math game?
Youngblood, I have considerable experience in applied physics. I am the Jesus of the junkpile due to my ability to resurrect dead machines and objects. I have constructed structures over large distances with high degrees of accuracy, moved heavy objects in tight spaces where one misstep could do irreparable damage to my existence all by myself. I have played with fire since being a young boy, stripped engines, repaired and tuned electrical, electronic, and and mechanical devices by the hundreds, have considerable experience in ballistics, and just flat out have a high aptitude for understanding how things work. With some formal training thrown in.
Do you really, really think you have a better grasp of physics than I do?
Your experience seems to be reading and speculating on the micro, that which is beyond our vision. You are subscribing to a belief system. You are doing nothing more than any other religion.
That religion of yours started out observing the macro, the stuff I am quite familiar with, and deducing by effects what the micro is assumed to be, and how it is constructed. But it took a wrong turn some time back and became a religion of math, not of reality.
A neutral atom is supposed to exist all by itself. If it is charged it interacts with others. They are discrete energy transfer devices. By the proclamation of modern physics, they are all contained within a larger system of energy transfers. Their individual configuration is determined by the configuration of the whole.
You are spouting nonsense, small portions of the entire picture. You evidently don't know how to tie them all together. Like learning verses in Sunday School.
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/sca...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#150198 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, my friend.
While true in general, the absence of evidence for an elephant in my room *is* evidence of the absence of elephants in my room. In the case of deities, the absence of evidence is sufficient to at least promote confidence in the absence.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#150199 Jan 26, 2013
scaritual wrote:
Another atheist lie?

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#150200 Jan 26, 2013
Clementia wrote:
NOOOOOOOO!! NO NO NO!! WE CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN!!!!!
Should i get my belly dancing hip scarf on? It might just work, u know, help u focus!!
Yes. YES!

Meet me here in about 3 hours with your hip scarf on.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#150201 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, at least you're acknowledging that someone might be able to scientifically prove the non-scientific realm...
That's a good start!
When have I ever not?

I have always stated that there is not now, nor has there ever been, any proof of any god's existence.

Oddly enough, this seems to upset religious people.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#150202 Jan 26, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
While true in general, the absence of evidence for an elephant in my room *is* evidence of the absence of elephants in my room. In the case of deities, the absence of evidence is sufficient to at least promote confidence in the absence.
Your room can be measured & observed in many ways. So can the elephant.

If you can determine a way to measure God, then you can determine if He's there or not.

Until that happens, none of you can honestly say that God is in our minds & only in our minds.

You can only believe that.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#150203 Jan 26, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's look at the facts. Jesus said absolutely nothing about the death he described in Matt 16:27-28 as being only a "spiritual death".
Jesus flatly declared, or more precisely, the unknown author of the Gospel of Matthew portrays Jesus as saying that some of his associates would not taste death before he came in his kingdom WITH angels and rewards.
The verses mean exactly what they say, and they say that some of the associates of Jesus would still be alive when he returned in his kingdom with angels and rewards.
The prophecy failed.
Prov 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Take heed Christian. Do not add to the words of God or manipulate his holy word to suit your needs.
Jesus has never come back to earth with angels and rewards and set up his kingdom within the time frame he said he would.
You’re making progress because now you are acknowledging that “some” would not taste death. Your previous statement was “all.”

That “some” was John the Revelator. John had a vision of the future. I realize that you will never acknowledge that John was who Jesus was talking about because this fact is contrary to your ideology. John saw visions of the end times and this is what Jesus was referring too when he said,“some.”

I have made known the opposing view and thank you again.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#150204 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly.... Jesus still has about 2.2 billion "associates".....
Rather like a pyramid scheme...

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#150205 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Another atheist lie?
What would the lie be?

Point it out.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150206 Jan 26, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you also have those that believe this material existence we are experiencing just popped out of nowhere. No ultimate cause, just a cloud of smoke that condensed and "poof!", here were are.
Still waiting for the proof such can be done on the physical level, and not in the imagination using numbers.
Are you waiting to see another universe created?

What is obvious is that a universe can exist. We don't need to prove that it does or can. What isn't obvious is how. A god is only hypothetical answer to the origins problem.

But not a good one. All god hypotheses create a more intractable problem than they solve. They leave a god to be accounted for. It seems that something must either have existed eternally or to be self-created. What is the least likely thing to exist uncreated and undesigned?

[a] A singularity
[b] An amorphous multiverse
[c] an infinite, immortal, sentient, volitional, omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly moral being

Virtually every argument against simpler things existing undesigned, such as causality (cosmological argument) and irreducible complexity (teleological argument), are even stronger arguments against a god existing undesigned.

The person of faith generally invokes special pleading. For example, the universe, it will be said, absolutely, positively needs a first causes, and anybody who thinks otherwise is irrational. The naturalistic explanations are mocked with words and phrases like "poof!" "nothing exploded and made everything," and "rain on a rock turned into life"

But the god gets a pass from such rigorous scrutiny - often excused by some ad hoc qualifier such as that the god exists in a privileged reality where nothing needs to make sense. The will to believe permits that.

You just mocked choice [a], the idea of a singularity existing and expanding to become our universe. You no doubt want us to choose option [c].

Sorry, but whatever argument you can level at naturalistic choices, the same argument destroys any god hypothesis.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#150207 Jan 26, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Your room can be measured & observed in many ways. So can the elephant.
If you can determine a way to measure God, then you can determine if He's there or not.
Until that happens, none of you can honestly say that God is in our minds & only in our minds.
You can only believe that.
So you acknowledge that there is as much possibility that the god Zeus exists as there is the god of the bible.

That's a good start...

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