Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149910 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Good argument, but his first premise was unsound.
You have come to the same conclusion though and make a good point about nonlife producing life being a miracle claim...
I disagree. It takes no miracle to organize the basic chemicals of life in a way that they sustain their reactions. And that is what life is: a self-sustaining collection of chemical reactions.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149911 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are alive.
Even debating with me, proves Gods existence.
Without Him, you have no basis for absolute laws of logic.
By debating and occasionally using reason, you prove His existence...
What a load of crud. Why would you claim there is no basis for logic without a deity?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149912 Jan 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Poly, the prevailing theory is that something expanded and blew a big bubble, condensing something into matter that became those particles and their derivatives, including us. The interactions of these particles keeps blowing the bubble bigger.
Wow. Not even close. Where do you get this stuff?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149913 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Good argument, but his first premise was unsound.
Which one? That causes come before effects? or that there was a first living thing?
bohart

Newport, TN

#149914 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly you did not understand my argument. If there was an earliest life, then anything before it was non-life. That is the definition of 'earliest'. But causes come before the effects (part of the nature of causality). So any cause for the *earliest* life had to be non-living.
<quoted text>
This is wrong. Science shows that life is a complex collection of chemical reactions and nothing else. There is every reason to believe the organization required comes about via the laws of nature and that, therefore, life came from non-life.
A total evasion.
bohart

Newport, TN

#149915 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. It takes no miracle to organize the basic chemicals of life in a way that they sustain their reactions. And that is what life is: a self-sustaining collection of chemical reactions.
You are so far behind the times it's scary, scientists at Arizona state have begun new investigations into lifes origin rejecting the premise that life is like baking a cake,..all you need is the right chemicals in the proper amount and walla! life! It's a 19th century concept.

Since: Sep 08

La Junta, CO

#149916 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. Not even close. Where do you get this stuff?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

Science speak for blowing a big bubble. I posted a better link some time ago.

If they don't print it in the King James version, you don't grok it, do you?

Regardless, all matter, and thus the interactions of it, are contained in this universe, as they are derivatives of that original event. They say.

A muon doesn't decay unless something else helps it along. It has to be affected.

Your perception of physics sure has a paranormal tinge to it. Particles appearing out of nowhere. Phenomenons happen just because the phenomenee got a wild hair.

You have some perception issues.

Oh, use at least a 18AWG BRAIDED wire to ground your tin foil hat. It's important.

Since: Sep 08

La Junta, CO

#149918 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly you did not understand my argument. If there was an earliest life, then anything before it was non-life. That is the definition of 'earliest'. But causes come before the effects (part of the nature of causality). So any cause for the *earliest* life had to be non-living.
<quoted text>
This is wrong. Science shows that life is a complex collection of chemical reactions and nothing else. There is every reason to believe the organization required comes about via the laws of nature and that, therefore, life came from non-life.
You said particles are fuzzy. Not hard thingies. Perhaps that fuzzy stuff is thought, waves of some sort that then gathers other fuzzy stuff to create "life". Waves shaping waves. Kind of creating its own little world.

Fuzz creates the hard stuff that then creates more fuzz.

We have fuzzy thinking Topix atheists, so it must be possible.

Or something like that.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#149919 Jan 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You said particles are fuzzy. Not hard thingies. Perhaps that fuzzy stuff is thought, waves of some sort that then gathers other fuzzy stuff to create "life". Waves shaping waves. Kind of creating its own little world.
Fuzz creates the hard stuff that then creates more fuzz.
We have fuzzy thinking Topix atheists, so it must be possible.
Or something like that.
When you have a graduate degree in physics, I'll give your arguments credibility. Right now you're just a Topix scientist, and that doesn't amount to much.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149920 Jan 24, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because God knows what choices you will make doesn't mean He makes those choices for you.
Simple as that.
That's correct, but what I said is still true. Here's why:

If the future is knowable, then there is fate. It doesn't matter who, if anyone, knows that fate, it's if it is knowable at all.

Now supposedly God is not only omniscient, but also omnipotent, which necessarily means that God not only knows the future, but created it too.

And if you look at what you said "Just because God knows what choices you will make" , well, if God knows what choices you will make, then that is what you do. You might think you have free will, but that is because you can't see the future. You are blissfully ignorant of your fate. But God knows, and you are his little automaton. Sorry, but that's how it would work. And is yet another reason why the whole Christian ideology clockwork falls apart. Christian ideology is predicated on the idea of free will, but it also makes claims about an omniscient and omnipotent God. Sorry, can't have both. Fail.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149921 Jan 24, 2013
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
IF god created ALL
he created your future also,
NO free will
simple indeed
I find this concept very easy to understand, but somehow religious people have a hard time getting it. I have a little pet theory that those who go in for magical thinking really have cognitive problems with certain types of logic, just as religious people claim that atheists lack some special God detector.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149922 Jan 24, 2013
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
You some how seem to believe that God must adhere to your line if reasoning. What a hoot!
Pretty funny.
But no so funny that you were able to refute the logical argument! D'oh!

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149923 Jan 24, 2013
AntiFreakMachine wrote:
<quoted text>
It makes sense, and to emphasize a portion of a phrase you used above:
"allows us to make the best choice possible."
*Allow**Choice*
That indicates, to me, we're only exercising a semblance of free will in an environment that we have very little latitude in the choices available to draw from. The discussion surrounding free will is always thought provoking, because at times you can almost convince yourself we do have free will in what we do from day to day, but upon further examination, we're really at the whim of our environment.
There is one thing we do have 100% free will in.
The choice to die.
Any of us can choose to die in various ways, and that is pure free will if a person chooses that, but, who wants to choose death in order to exercise 100% free will?
If we truly had free will we would never be able to prove it. We could however prove we did not, if someone knew the future, thus negating the possibility of free will.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#149924 Jan 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You said particles are fuzzy. Not hard thingies. Perhaps that fuzzy stuff is thought, waves of some sort that then gathers other fuzzy stuff to create "life". Waves shaping waves. Kind of creating its own little world.
Fuzz creates the hard stuff that then creates more fuzz.
We have fuzzy thinking Topix atheists, so it must be possible.
Or something like that.
When you get your graduate degree in physics, I'll give your arguments credence. Until then, you're simply a Topix scientist, and that doesn't amount to very much.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149925 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It does apply, how can you have an absolute standard of evil, without an absolute standard of good?
You are appealing to that as the basis for your argument, my question is, upon what basis do you make that appeal?
Where do you get absolute morality from?
I don't. The question is a subjective one, based on your opinion. No absolute morality required.

"Slavery, rape and putting every infant to the sword isn't evil?"

So, do you think they are evil or not?

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#149926 Jan 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
I am troubled by the quality of maturity, rationality, and intellect that has recently gathered on this forum. People such as mtimber and EmpAtheist, among others.
The quality is too high. It's unnatural for this forum.
Something must be happening.
Sock in mouth you do decree.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149927 Jan 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Free will is just the ability to take a course of action based upon emotion instead of training and experience. Taking risks one doesn't have to. The soul's desires to experience versus the conscious mind's "knowing" cause and effect.
So if you do something based on "training and experience" you are not exerting free will? Wha?

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#149928 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
^^Totally circular...
Aside from your head ..what else is new?

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#149929 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Name something that isn't caused.:-)
In your case thinking.
Anon

Lakewood, OH

#149930 Jan 24, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
When you have a graduate degree in physics, I'll give your arguments credibility. Right now you're just a Topix scientist, and that doesn't amount to much.
Damn double post. Look at the time lag. Thought the first one didn't take

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