Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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143,921 - 143,940 of 226,379 Comments Last updated 56 min ago

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149816 Jan 24, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, one fact, just one mesley fact as to how your god differs from an imaginary god.
It is not a matter of evidence.

It is a matter of your pre-suppositions precluding Gods existance.

And yes, you do have pre-suppositions.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#149817 Jan 24, 2013
Nope your god commanded his people to rape women as spoils of war and you know it. So you admit god was immoral. Why worship such an immoral monster?

As expected you ran away from god advocating slavery. Lol! Why are you scared to answer this?

And show historically where king Herod ordered children slain? Let me guess the bible myth! Lmfao!

All your child death examples are off topic and a desperate attempt to dodge the fact that your god ordered his followers to put every infant to the sword. Again is this moral or not?

You don't argue with god you idiot! According to your bible myth even remotely doing that brings curses upon you just ask John the Baptist's Daddy.

As usual you don't know your own bible and require atheists to school you on it.

Cowardly old daffy dodging questions as expected.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Rape was illegal and yes itís immoral. Punishable by death in the bible. God never ordered anyone to be raped, ever. Name one person that God ordered to be raped.
Herod the Great ordered the killing of children a fact.
I think the killing of children is immoral regardless who or when. If God ordered me in war to do so I would try to plead to spare them. It has been proven that a righteous man can plead before God and negotiate with him.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149818 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that was NOT my argument.
My argument had two branches: either life has always existed or there was a time when it did not.
I then argued that life did not always exist. I did this by showing that the conditions for life did not exist at some point in the past. So there was a time when life did not exist.
We know that life exists now. So, since there was a time when life did not exist, the cause of the earliest life, being prior to that life, had to be non-life.
P1: If life didn't exist at one point, then life must have come from non-life.
P2: Life didn't exist at one point.
C: Life came from non-life.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149819 Jan 24, 2013
^^Totally circular...

Since: Dec 11

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#149820 Jan 24, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Rape was illegal and yes itís immoral. Punishable by death in the bible. God never ordered anyone to be raped, ever. Name one person that God ordered to be raped.
The god of the OT explicitly allows Israelites to take girls captured in war and make them their wives *without any consent*. Wives were expected to service their husbands sexually.

The Israelites did not view this as rape because women were essentially the property of their husbands.

But I know, and you know, that it's rape.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149821 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Irrelevant. Some things are certainly caused. But not everything is caused.
Name something that isn't caused.:-)

Since: Jan 13

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#149822 Jan 24, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
I won't say I wasn't bothered by some wording and assumptions made... but you didn't give in to the anger being exchanged all over this forum. I can't say i am innocent of the same. Good job.
I think I will make a specification in future between atheists and militant fanatical religiously zealous atheists.:-)

Since: Jan 13

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#149823 Jan 24, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I would argue that to be eternal doesn't require being "outside of time" as much as it requires time to simply not have a beginning. And I'm ok with that.
Although i am not rejecting the conclusion of god being eternal... i think the reasoning is flawed.
1. God doesn't have to prove he is outside of time to be eternal.
2. I would ask what prophecy has proven that. Also we have people like Nostradamus who made loose predictions of future events that people believe as well... but nobody would then say that he exists outside of time.
<quoted text>
I am not very highly educated on the big bang. I just know the basics. I just know that this "outside of time" concept is strange as time is a before and after measurement.
Again, every thought and every action have a before and after. Even the thought to create the universe would take time and would place him within the constructs of it.
<quoted text>
Being i am no longer a Christian... the bible isn't a reference i use any longer. I am not saying that if it does show to hold something undeniably amazing that i will reject it. Its just full of passages that can be stretched to mean enough different meanings to cause hundreds of different things to the different churches and hundreds of thousands of different things to different Christians who all think they are the ones who really understand it.
I want to add that the thing that made me initially read your posts is that you asked a lot of questions.....Well structured questions that had very little negativity laced within them. I won't say I wasn't bothered by some wording and assumptions made... but you didn't give in to the anger being exchanged all over this forum. I can't say i am innocent of the same. Good job.
There are quite a number of points here, but the one I would like to deal with is quality of prophecy.

Nostredamus was not known for the accuracy of his prophecies, the bible does not have the same very low standard.:-)

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#149824 Jan 24, 2013
Yes you often use circular arguments along with other logical fallacies and dodging questions.

But guess what Derek? It doesn't matter that you changed your screen name and stole from Eric Hovind, bashing science and cowardly dodging questions doesn't prove god no matter what your favorite site http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/ told you.

I understand why you are unable to answer our questions Derek, regardless of what screen name you use. These questions aren't covered in your bookmarked how to debate an atheist sites, hence why you rely on dodging so much.

By all means prove me right by dodging questions Derek. Sorry but changing your screen name doesn't change the stupid.:)

Just don't go hacking up infants that you pulled away from their pleading mothers as your god commanded his people to do before, ok?
mtimber wrote:
^^Totally circular...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149825 Jan 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
I am troubled by the quality of maturity, rationality, and intellect that has recently gathered on this forum. People such as mtimber and EmpAtheist, among others.
The quality is too high. It's unnatural for this forum.
Something must be happening.
Its called rationality I believe.:-)

lol :-)

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#149826 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
^^Totally circular...
Rather like that great Christian classic:

"The god of the bible is real because the bible says the god of the bible is real and the bible was written by god!"

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#149827 Jan 24, 2013
Can you for once answer a question or is dodging hen all you are able to do?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not a matter of evidence.
It is a matter of your pre-suppositions precluding Gods existance.
And yes, you do have pre-suppositions.

Since: Jan 13

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#149828 Jan 24, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Your god commanded rape, killing and putting the infant to the sword. Do you find this moral? Regardless of whoever's words you are deliberately obfuscating it meaningless. Your god your absolute authority for morality commanded his people to rape kill and even put infants to the sword. Is that moral yes or no?
Stop running like a coward, retard and answer.
<quoted text>
Again, as an atheist how do you come to appeal to such outraged moral absolute standards?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149829 Jan 24, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Yawn special pleading logical fallacy. So again for what the 12th time is it?
Your god ordered his people to take slaves, rape children and put every infant to the sword, moral yes or no?
We're these good things to do in your opinion? Chopping up infants in front of their screaming and crying pleading mothers is cool with you?
<quoted text>
This is totally irrelevant to the point I made...

If you want to have an emotional tantrum in the thread, then go ahead, but it does not validate your point in any way...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149830 Jan 24, 2013
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I will answer, even if these christians are too cowardly to be honest. YES, this is highly immoral and objectionable.
The god of the OT is a monster. Any enlightened person can see this.
See Linc and mtimber not difficult!
As an atheist, how do you come to that absolute moral conclusion?

What is your ultimate standard of authority that you appeal to?

It seems you keep appealing to Christian standards of morality to prove atheism...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149831 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Name something that isn't caused.:-)
The decay of a muon.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149832 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
^^Totally circular...
Not at all circular.

P==>Q
P

Therefore Q.

Standard Moden Ponens.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#149833 Jan 24, 2013
Answer my question and I will answer yours. Enough dodging already answer or fail.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, as an atheist how do you come to appeal to such outraged moral absolute standards?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#149834 Jan 24, 2013
And by rationality you mean dodging questions. Still waiting to see you give an actual answer.

And waiting....
And waiting....
And waiting.........

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz hmmm? Hmmm! Did you finally answer a question? Nope dodging them as usual I see.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Its called rationality I believe.:-)
lol :-)

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149835 Jan 24, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Hmmm am I the only one who has noticed that a certain copy and paste troll who always flooded the thread with spam has vanished ever since the Hovind fan club president timber has arrived?
If you want to save yourself the time of reading his posts all you have to do is click.
http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/
This is where he stole it from, word for word.
Actually, he got that from Bahnsen and Van Till and others.

Who got it from the Bible.

I am bemused as to what crime you think is being made here?

It would be much easier for me, if you went and educated yourself on some of these issues, so that I did not have to keep trying to explain the obvious to you.

Please, go and watch Greg Bahnsen or Dr Jason Lyle, they are all pre-suppositional apologists, just like myself...

This argument is called:

Pre-suppositional apologetics if someone wants to go and check it out.

Christians on here, should understand it, you will soon realise that militant atheists do not have an argument against this.

But have to reduce their worldview to absurdity to escape the logical conclusion...

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