Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Since: Nov 12

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#149774
Jan 24, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
If God was outside of time and space, as He created it, then He would have to reveal that fact in some form.
To do this, He has shown, through prophecy, that this is the case.
It is a logical conclusion.
1. To prove God is eternal, He has to show knowledge that He operates outside the bounds of time.
2. God reveals the future through prophecy, operating outside of time.
3. God proves He is eternal.
I would argue that to be eternal doesn't require being "outside of time" as much as it requires time to simply not have a beginning. And I'm ok with that.

Although i am not rejecting the conclusion of god being eternal... i think the reasoning is flawed.

1. God doesn't have to prove he is outside of time to be eternal.
2. I would ask what prophecy has proven that. Also we have people like Nostradamus who made loose predictions of future events that people believe as well... but nobody would then say that he exists outside of time.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Second Part:
1. The universe had a start, a first cause that was not of the universe.
2. That first cause has to show that it is outside of time.
3. God has shown He is outside of term and therefore the first cause.
Plenty of evidence that God is the Creator, using very simple logic.
I am not very highly educated on the big bang. I just know the basics. I just know that this "outside of time" concept is strange as time is a before and after measurement.

Again, every thought and every action have a before and after. Even the thought to create the universe would take time and would place him within the constructs of it.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
God presents His own argument here:
Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Being i am no longer a Christian... the bible isn't a reference i use any longer. I am not saying that if it does show to hold something undeniably amazing that i will reject it. Its just full of passages that can be stretched to mean enough different meanings to cause hundreds of different things to the different churches and hundreds of thousands of different things to different Christians who all think they are the ones who really understand it.

I want to add that the thing that made me initially read your posts is that you asked a lot of questions.....Well structured questions that had very little negativity laced within them. I won't say I wasn't bothered by some wording and assumptions made... but you didn't give in to the anger being exchanged all over this forum. I can't say i am innocent of the same. Good job.

Since: Sep 08

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#149775
Jan 24, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

I am troubled by the quality of maturity, rationality, and intellect that has recently gathered on this forum. People such as mtimber and EmpAtheist, among others.

The quality is too high. It's unnatural for this forum.

Something must be happening.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

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#149776
Jan 24, 2013
 
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Based upon the quote I provided by Lincoln he felt every preacher was a lair making claims with no knowledge that the claims were true. All politicians reference god, especially in the 19th century. They do this for support from all the ignorant simple minded biased peasants who believe in god. However the original draft of the Gettysburg Address does not mention god. Dishonest christian historians added it later. Typical.
Thank you for all of your responses. I would admit in the ranks of Christianity there are some dishonest people. But not everyone is dishonest as you have alleged.

Such stereotyping a entire group is nothing more than extreme bigotry. The type of bigotry that the Nazis displayed openly and privately against the Jewish people. Such hatred lead to the genocide of millions of people.

The way you see people of faith thankfully is not the way most people surmise. Your views are outside the norm for a free society. Since we are a free society your welcome to your isolated extreme bigoted views.

I however do not share you view about Atheist the same way you view believers. There are many honest and upstanding Atheist. Then of course there are the extreme militant Atheist. Nasty, rude, bigoted Atheist with spewing hate. Thankfully they do not represent the entire Atheist population.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149777
Jan 24, 2013
 
It doesn't? Lol you had to look long and hard for some crazy no name translation with explanations added lol!

Yes stone her to death and if she is raped pay the father 50 shekels! Lmfao some morality eh?

So yes indeed if she is not a virgin or is an unlucky girl without a hymen or just doesn't bleed on a cloth for her dad to wave around stone her to death!
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
The scripture you referenced doesnít say that any woman who is not a virgin should be stoned.
20. But if it is true that the evidences of virginity were not found in the young woman,
21. Then they shall bring her to the door of her fatherís house and the men of her city shall stone her to death.
29. Then the man who lay with her shall give to the girlís father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her; he may not divorce her all his days.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149778
Jan 24, 2013
 
Your god commanded rape, killing and putting the infant to the sword. Do you find this moral? Regardless of whoever's words you are deliberately obfuscating it meaningless. Your god your absolute authority for morality commanded his people to rape kill and even put infants to the sword. Is that moral yes or no?

Stop running like a coward, retard and answer.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
News flash.
One of your atheist buddies just argued that there is a situation where rape is acceptable...
I will ask you to answer the same test, to see if your worldview is one you live by:
The last man and woman are on an island.
For the survival of the species, they need to procreate.
The man wants to and the woman does not.
Would it be okay for the man to rape the woman in this instance?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149779
Jan 24, 2013
 
Ah another Christian liar! Before when I mocked your name you berated me saying it was a Russian word and you know it. Now you when proven wrong resort to lying.

As expected typical Christhole.

Well so back to my original comment your screen name is stolen from a stupid made for TV movie! How lame! Stop scampering.

Once again I have factually crushed you half wit.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Why that's just too funny! You wasted all this time and effort over one little remark I made. I never claimed it was a Russian word, I said you don't know what it means in Russian. I did not say I knew what it meant. LOL
I played a little word game that atheist play all the time. LOL
Keep digging! Someday you'll wake up. LOL
What a dolt.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149780
Jan 24, 2013
 
Wow another lame dodge! You got nothing.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you think? Come on nut job THINK! Just once try using your grey matter.
Lincoln

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#149781
Jan 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Your god commanded rape, killing and putting the infant to the sword. Do you find this moral? Regardless of whoever's words you are deliberately obfuscating it meaningless. Your god your absolute authority for morality commanded his people to rape kill and even put infants to the sword. Is that moral yes or no?
Stop running like a coward, retard and answer.
<quoted text>
Same tired old post...

nothing to raise atheism from
the obscurity of 4% support
in the United States.

Disproving the Bible
in no way proves that latest
trend in atheism.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149782
Jan 24, 2013
 
Yawn special pleading logical fallacy. So again for what the 12th time is it?

Your god ordered his people to take slaves, rape children and put every infant to the sword, moral yes or no?

We're these good things to do in your opinion? Chopping up infants in front of their screaming and crying pleading mothers is cool with you?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
If God was outside of time and space, as He created it, then He would have to reveal that fact in some form.
To do this, He has shown, through prophecy, that this is the case.
It is a logical conclusion.
1. To prove God is eternal, He has to show knowledge that He operates outside the bounds of time.
2. God reveals the future through prophecy, operating outside of time.
3. God proves He is eternal.
Second Part:
1. The universe had a start, a first cause that was not of the universe.
2. That first cause has to show that it is outside of time.
3. God has shown He is outside of term and therefore the first cause.
Plenty of evidence that God is the Creator, using very simple logic.
God presents His own argument here:
Isa 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isa 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#149783
Jan 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Your god commanded rape, killing and putting the infant to the sword. Do you find this moral? <quoted text>
I will answer, even if these christians are too cowardly to be honest. YES, this is highly immoral and objectionable.

The god of the OT is a monster. Any enlightened person can see this.

See Linc and mtimber not difficult!

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149784
Jan 24, 2013
 
Ah yes Adam and Eve. Your god decided to allow the suffering an deaths of trillions of people due to Eve's dietary choices. Lol! She ate a magical apple because she was tricked by a talking snake and god decides everyone has to suffer because of that!

What a psychopath your god is.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, if you want to hide behind it so God can't see you.
Just like Adam and Eve in the Garden.
Man still attempts that foolishness to this day.
Except these days, it is no longer a bush, but a rock.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#149785
Jan 24, 2013
 
Lincoln wrote:
<quoted text>
Disproving the Bible
in no way proves that latest
trend in atheism.
Disproving the Bible is very important. As this is the by far majority religion in the West.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149786
Jan 24, 2013
 
Do you have anything other than lame dodges?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have a rational argument to present?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149787
Jan 24, 2013
 
All mtimber does is regurgitate lame Hovind questions again and again, ask him a question and he dodges it hurls an insult and fires off another lame Hovind question.

If anyone thinks this is reasonable or respectable they need to check their head.
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
I will answer, even if these christians are too cowardly to be honest. YES, this is highly immoral and objectionable.
The god of the OT is a monster. Any enlightened person can see this.
See Linc and mtimber not difficult!
Lincoln

United States

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#149788
Jan 24, 2013
 
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Disproving the Bible is very important. As this is the by far majority religion in the West.
In no way advances atheism

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#149789
Jan 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
It doesn't? Lol you had to look long and hard for some crazy no name translation with explanations added lol!
Yes stone her to death and if she is raped pay the father 50 shekels! Lmfao some morality eh?
So yes indeed if she is not a virgin or is an unlucky girl without a hymen or just doesn't bleed on a cloth for her dad to wave around stone her to death!
<quoted text>
Blacksheep #149223 {The bible god stated that girls who lost their virginity before marriage were to be stone or burned to death. Most of the world does not believe that is proper or moral anymore.

Now since the bible god said to do it and most of us ignore him, that should tell you something about the bible god!}

The scripture you referenced doesnít say that any woman who is not a virgin should be stoned. You only took a small portion of the scripture that does not tell the entire story. This scripture you referenced is about a dispute resolution as a result of a married man making the claim his wife was not a virgin when he married her. Such accusations are a result of two people who are obviously not getting along. Or the possibility he married the town whore and no longer loves her.(Deuteronomy 22)

Where there was proven a false accusation against a woman the man is whipped and fined.

In cases of rape the woman was spared and the man is stoned.

In cases of fornication. The man must marry the woman and canít divorce her.

It has been my pleasure to shoot down in flames your misinterpretations.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#149790
Jan 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Ah yes Adam and Eve. Your god decided to allow the suffering an deaths of trillions of people due to Eve's dietary choices. Lol! She ate a magical apple because she was tricked by a talking snake and god decides everyone has to suffer because of that!
What a psychopath your god is.
<quoted text>
Rattlesnake diplomacy at its best.

Since: Nov 12

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#149791
Jan 24, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
I am troubled by the quality of maturity, rationality, and intellect that has recently gathered on this forum. People such as mtimber and EmpAtheist, among others.
The quality is too high. It's unnatural for this forum.
Something must be happening.
Lol. Thank you!

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#149792
Jan 24, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Do you have anything other than lame dodges?
<quoted text>
Do you have anything other than lame assertions and intentional misrepresentations of the bible?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#149793
Jan 24, 2013
 
If she is not a virgin the men in town are to stone her death. If she is raped the rapist is to pay her daddy 50 shackles and marry her because she is damaged goods.

Your god commanded his people to take slaves, rape children and put infants to the sword.

What a monster you worship!
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Blacksheep #149223 {The bible god stated that girls who lost their virginity before marriage were to be stone or burned to death. Most of the world does not believe that is proper or moral anymore.
Now since the bible god said to do it and most of us ignore him, that should tell you something about the bible god!}
The scripture you referenced doesnít say that any woman who is not a virgin should be stoned. You only took a small portion of the scripture that does not tell the entire story. This scripture you referenced is about a dispute resolution as a result of a married man making the claim his wife was not a virgin when he married her. Such accusations are a result of two people who are obviously not getting along. Or the possibility he married the town whore and no longer loves her.(Deuteronomy 22)
Where there was proven a false accusation against a woman the man is whipped and fined.
In cases of rape the woman was spared and the man is stoned.
In cases of fornication. The man must marry the woman and canít divorce her.
It has been my pleasure to shoot down in flames your misinterpretations.

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