Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 244948 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Pat

Granby, CT

#149691 Jan 24, 2013
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>
***n 1862 and 1863, during the most difficult days of the Civil War and his presidency, Lincoln's utterances were sometimes marked with spiritual overtones.
1862: Bereavement and Emancipation
On Thursday, February 20, 1862, at 5:00 P.M. Lincoln's eleven year old son, William Wallace Lincoln (Willie), died in the White House. Historians suggest that this may have been the most difficult personal crisis in his life. After the funeral, Lincoln attempted a return to his routine, but he was unable. One week after the funeral, he isolated himself in his office and wept all day. Several people report that Lincoln told them that his feelings about religion changed at this time. Willie is reported to have often remarked that he wanted to be a minister someday.[19] When he died, Lincoln reportedly said, "May God live in all. He was too good for this earth. The good Lord has called him home. I know that he is much better off in Heaven."[20][21]
Spiritualism, popularly in vogue during this era, was tried by Lincoln's wife. Mrs. Lincoln used the services of mediums and spiritualists to try to contact their dead son. Lincoln allegedly attended at least one seance at the White House with Mrs. Lincoln at this time.[22]
At the same time, the War was not going well for the Union. General George McClellan's failure in the Peninsula Campaign came about within months after Willie's death. Next came Robert E. Lee's impressive victory at the Second Battle of Bull Run, after which he said, "I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go."[23][24]
According to Salmon Chase, as he was preparing to issue the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln said, "I made a solemn vow before God, that if General Lee was driven back from Maryland I would crown the result by the declaration of freedom to the slaves."[25] The differences in interpretation of the President's statement can be due to the belief that "swearing or vowing" to God was blasphemous to some religious sects.
At the same time, Lincoln sat down in his office and penned the following words:
The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party -- and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say that this is probably true -- that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere great power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And, having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds.[26]***
Abraham Lincoln certainly showed good sense in his logic!!:)
So he pandered to the god fearing peasants like a typical politician that needs support and votes. It does not change the fact that every god hustler is still a liar making claims they do not know to be true, no different than me claiming to have won the lottery prior to the drawing taking place and me accidentally winning the lottery does not excuse me from my lie.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149692 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a philosophical argument.
You don't accept philosophy as a valid practice.
I have stated that most philosophers don't do it correctly. I am skeptical that any can.
So you won't understand the argument anyway...
Try me. I have understood much more complicated and intricate arguments than you ever will.
Pat

Granby, CT

#149693 Jan 24, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Was it my free will to be born?
Was it my free will to be born in the 1960's?
Was it my free will to be born in Pittsburgh, PA?
Was it my free will to be born into the family that I was?
As a child, was it my free will to attend the church that I did?
As a child, was it my free will to attend the schools that I did?
Was it my free will to have the teachers that I had?
All these things greatly influenced my decisions; yet according to believers, your god arranged all that for me. That is not free will, that is programming.
Funny how god ALWAYS values the free will of the child rapist/murderer over the free will of their young innocent victims. How sweet.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#149694 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have a rational argument to present?

That was exactly the point nimrod, you do not have a rational basis based on evidence in your argument. Hubble's law the cosmic background radiation, the position of galaxies in the past support
the BBT. The fact it is a paradox is not evidence it needed a uncaused causer of causes , or even that causality applies.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#149695 Jan 24, 2013
The passion of the christ was just a load of Mel Gibson shite.

Did you realise that the princess shagged in Braveheart was a real person? But she would've been 4 years old at the time. Mel Gibson made Braveheart a paedophile.

The crucifixion was probably just a sex game that went wrong.
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>Judas knew the strength that JESUS had, he had witnessed it himself on many occasions, and Judas knew that JESUS could defend Himself. It didn't turn out that way at all.....
And Judas took his own life .... and if I had witnessed what was going on back then, I probably would have to. I had to watch "The Passion of the Christ" with no volume, and it was a huge shock to see what they actually did to Him. But, in Sunday School, we coloured in little driplets of blood running from short thorns, just scraping His flesh, and although we knew about the sword in the side, actually watching it on the screen was horrific.
Thank GOD we have moved on from those days, although of course, there are circumstances that actually have not moved on at all.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#149696 Jan 24, 2013
Why?
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have anything rational to present?
Pat

Granby, CT

#149697 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not the argument you made.
You made the argument that if you cannot comprehend something, it cannot exist.
You cannot comprehend abiogenesis, therefore abiogenesis does not exist.
Do you retract that argument?
To grow as a person, you need to be able to admit it when you do not understand something.
Well, it's obvious why you are a theist. God is just your substitute for a malfunctioning brain.

I can comprehend abiogenesis. That does not mean I possess the knowledge to perfectly describe it. I can also use your same flawed logic against you. You can not comprehend god, or what it is does or wants since there is no knowledge of any gods, therefore god does not exist according to you.
Pat

Granby, CT

#149698 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Arbitrary appeal to your own authority.
Do you have anything rational to present?
No, that was a factually correct remark. All arguments for god are arguments from ignorance for they are based not upon what you know (knowledge) but rather upon what you don't know (your ignorance).

Life is too complex, there must be a god = argument from ignorance.
Life must have a purpose therefore there must be a god = argument from ignorance.
Life could not have created itself = argument from ignorance.

All arguments for god are arguments from ignorance. God = your ignorance, nothing more.
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#149699 Jan 24, 2013
7 posts in a row gets you a "Cuntard of the Day" award.
Way to go cuntard!
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you account for the concept that many have that there was state where there was no time?
Your reduction to absurdity is incredible to watch...
Pat

Granby, CT

#149700 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been presenting evidence, but your fanatical goggles have not allowed you to see the evidence, let alone discuss and critique it...
You have no evidence for god. You are a liar. God is still linked to the word faith and you know it so you can stop lying now.

Atheists and theists do not argue over the merits of believing in aliens on Pluto, or leprechauns. We rarely dispute what is or is not valid evidence for something outside the scope of religion (death denial). Theists prove every day that they can and do use normal reasoning. They can even serve on juries! It is ONLY in matters that conflict with the theists cherished death denial mythology that these disagreements arise. This clearly proves the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the theist, attempting to protect their cherished beliefs.
Pat

Granby, CT

#149701 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know if a line is curvy?
I like to wear socks.
Pat

Granby, CT

#149702 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Not so, atheists look at a rock and see abiogenesis...
If you were not so insecure about your blind faith you would have no desire to project your stupid onto the atheist like this. All you can honestly say about every atheist is that they lack belief in god, that's it. Deep down you know you are living a lie and the atheist reminds you of that and you don't like it one bit.
Pat

Granby, CT

#149703 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, if you want to hide behind it so God can't see you.
Just like Adam and Eve in the Garden.
Man still attempts that foolishness to this day.
Except these days, it is no longer a bush, but a rock.
Adam and Eve? Give me a break! So what was the original sin, eating from the tree of knowledge or the planting of the tree there in the first place? Creating morally challenged imperfect humans only to deliberately tempt them so you can then punish the imperfect objects of your own creation is both evil, and sadistic.

Is there an intelligent man or woman now in the world who believes in the Garden of Eden story? If you find any man who believes it, strike his forehead and you will hear an echo. Something is for rent. Robert Green Ingersoll, "Orthodoxy" (1884)

The inspiration of the Bible depends upon the ignorance of the gentleman who reads it. Robert Green Ingersoll, speech (1881),
Pat

Granby, CT

#149704 Jan 24, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a philosophical argument.
You don't accept philosophy as a valid practice.
So you won't understand the argument anyway...
The inner defenses are unconscious. They consist of a kind of magic aura which the mind builds around cherished belief. Arguments which penetrate into the magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by a specific type of pseudo-reasoning. Absurdities and contradictions are made acceptable by specious rationalizations.-- Arthur Koestler

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#149705 Jan 24, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
That was exactly the point nimrod, you do not have a rational basis based on evidence in your argument. Hubble's law the cosmic background radiation, the position of galaxies in the past support
the BBT. The fact it is a paradox is not evidence it needed a uncaused causer of causes , or even that causality applies.
The BBT is not paradoxical, certainly not now that the mathematics has been developed that can rationalise the infinities as the atomic universe nears zero and (from the other side) the quantum universe nears zero. In the new mathematics these infinities are neatly and equally cancelled out and the quantum flows neatly into the atomic.

This realisation has caused a surge in cosmologists now daring to ask (and imagine)“what happened before the big bang”. As far as I know there are at least 27 different theories, each with merit which of course excludes the one where a god did it. To paraphrase Professor Neil Turok “We don’t know exactly how it happened but it is certain that no god did it”

The theory I prefer is that of Dr Laura Mersini-Houghton whose calculations not only explain what could have been the cause but also what caused the major anomalies that cosmology can observe in the present universe. i.e the cold spots in the CMB and the small portion of the universe that appears to be travelling in opposition to the rest.

However at the current state of human knowledge it’s all mute, there is a limit to human understanding and that limit lies at 10^-34th of a second following the start of the event. Prior to that time the very laws that enable us to understand this universe did not exist.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#149706 Jan 24, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop projecting your flawed logic and inflated ego onto me you dishonest fool. I simply call it as I see it. Faith itself is dishonest for no man knows of any gods and any one who makes an assertion without out knowing if the assertion is true is guilty of falsehood. Every god hustler is a liar and also a coward who refuses to face their own mortality honestly. It's not about god and never has been, it's about your refusal to face death honestly. It is no coincidence that all theists are death deniers. You deny the overwhelming proof that death ends personal memory and awareness for we know for a fact that awareness is brain function, not a ghost.
There is no difference between your fear of death and any theist. You just rationalize it differently.

You have a stoical approach now, but when the time comes and a reality sets in, it will be shaken.

Theists have a focus to ease that transition. You will have nowhere to go,

It's a large universe. Imagine yourself waking up in in an out of the way spot in it, say like an asteroid, not knowing where to go, or what lies out there.

Your consciousness will not cease to be. Your memories and way you think now will, but your "being" won't.

Look at a mirror. You see yourself existing. What lies beyond the mirror?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149707 Jan 24, 2013
Thinking wrote:
The crucifixion was probably just a sex game that went wrong.
<quoted text>
Q: Why did Jesus die on the cross?

A: He forgot his safe word.

Q: What's white and shoots across the sky?

A: The second coming of Jesus.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#149708 Jan 24, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
Adam and Eve? Give me a break! So what was the original sin, eating from the tree of knowledge or the planting of the tree there in the first place? Creating morally challenged imperfect humans only to deliberately tempt them so you can then punish the imperfect objects of your own creation is both evil, and sadistic.
Is there an intelligent man or woman now in the world who believes in the Garden of Eden story? If you find any man who believes it, strike his forehead and you will hear an echo. Something is for rent. Robert Green Ingersoll, "Orthodoxy" (1884)
The inspiration of the Bible depends upon the ignorance of the gentleman who reads it. Robert Green Ingersoll, speech (1881),
+1 good post

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149709 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, my parents having sex caused me (at least that is the primary cause).
And what caused them?

A fish?

A blob?

A rock?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149710 Jan 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
They took the idea of 'having time' and negated it? Whether this concept actually applies to the real world is another matter.
You seem to be arguing that the concept is an impossibility?

Mind you, I am finding it difficult trying to get any sense of your own worldview as you seem to be contradicting yourself quite a lot.

Which displays that you do not have a rational worldview to argue from and have to keep jumping around to defend something that you cannot justify...

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