Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149538 Jan 23, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
If anything, I'm of the 'shut up and calculate' viewpoint on QM. As far as I can see, most of the philosophies of QM fail because they attempt to explain QM based on classical ideas and that is exactly the wrong way around. You explain the *old* theory by using the *new* one.
<quoted text>
I am neither affirming nor denying such. All of the following are possible given our current state of knowledge:
1) The universe has no cause.
2) The universe has multiple causes.
3) The universe has a single cause.
4) The concept of causality is meaningless when applied to the universe.
Of the four, the last seems most likely, followed by the first two.
Do you allow that the single cause can be something outside of our normal experience of time energy and matter?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149539 Jan 23, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
No god argument is logically plausible until it can describe the method by which things were created. Magic is not a valid basis for anything.
So you argue that events can only happen when you can comprehend them?

So abiogenesis and the big bang didn't happen then?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149540 Jan 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
God's actions are not evil. He is incapable of evil & He is not accountable for fallability like humans are.
It is human arrogance that portrays God's actions as "evil". He knows what he's doing.
God cannot be incapable of anything, or else God cannot be omnipotent.

If you say God is omnipotent and omniscient, and God created everything including humans, then of course God is responsible for humans and any flaws they may have, and should have known in advance of creating *anything* what the consequences and ramifications were to be. How could it be otherwise?

Thus, if evil exists, it is with the complicity of God, who is therefore responsible for it. How can God be omnipotent but only semi-responsible? For God to escape blame for evil, God cannot be responsible for it, and therefore could not have created it, which means God did not create everything, and is not as powerful as evil, or else God could overcome it, and would do so if evil were against God's will. Your God, free from blame, cannot be omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient. This was figured out long ago in ancient Greece by Epicurus:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149541 Jan 23, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
Just wanted to add..... omniscience is not a problem for free will. It seems so on the surface. Also I have seen that the Christians on here are doing a horrible job arguing that... ha... but they can win this one.
Instead of having the ability to see the future........imagine the ability to go back in time... and you knew everything your friend did that week... unless you change something, he will do everything you saw.... he was still making his own decisions
However.......... we still have a problem. God is omniscient and omnipotent. He also knows all of his own actions he will do in the future.... and although he may be perfectly happy with that and I'm sure he is. He cannot do anything different. He is not then omnipotent.. but powerless. He is obligated to do what he knows he was going to do.
You are placing God in His material universe and trying to apply the restrictions of that universe to Him.

That is a bit like putting a car designer in a car, then telling him to forget he is a driver and to act like a car...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149542 Jan 23, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Slavery, rape and putting every infant to the sword isn't evil?
<quoted text>
News flash.

One of your atheist buddies just argued that there is a situation where rape is acceptable...

I will ask you to answer the same test, to see if your worldview is one you live by:

The last man and woman are on an island.

For the survival of the species, they need to procreate.

The man wants to and the woman does not.

Would it be okay for the man to rape the woman in this instance?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149543 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are placing God in His material universe and trying to apply the restrictions of that universe to Him.
That is a bit like putting a car designer in a car, then telling him to forget he is a driver and to act like a car...
And yet you yourself make a comparison between God and a human with your example.

If God is not of this universe then how did it create the universe, which is so completely unlike it?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149544 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
News flash.
One of your atheist buddies just argued that there is a situation where rape is acceptable...
I will ask you to answer the same test, to see if your worldview is one you live by:
The last man and woman are on an island.
For the survival of the species, they need to procreate.
The man wants to and the woman does not.
Would it be okay for the man to rape the woman in this instance?
Nice diversion, but you didn't answer the question, which was:

"Slavery, rape and putting every infant to the sword isn't evil?"

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#149545 Jan 23, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text> But to those who occasionally come in and happen to be on the fence.
That's not a sentence, Eagle.
Pat

Granby, CT

#149546 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So you argue that events can only happen when you can comprehend them?
So abiogenesis and the big bang didn't happen then?
We have evidence for the big bang in the fact that the universe is expanding. Big Bang theory may turn out to be false but that does not change the fact that the universe is expanding.

We do not know for sure how life began on Earth though we do know for sure there is life.

There is no knowledge of any gods, or what they think, want, do or created. That's all pure fantasy and baseless speculation by death deniers.

Is it a coincidence to you that all those who beleive in god also deny the overwhelming evidence that death ends ones personal memory and awareness?
Pat

Granby, CT

#149547 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are placing God in His material universe and trying to apply the restrictions of that universe to Him.
That is a bit like putting a car designer in a car, then telling him to forget he is a driver and to act like a car...
You are placing your imaginary god out of bounds as a means of giving him a saftey net.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#149548 Jan 23, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Nor any of my Russian friends including Marina who teaches the Russian language at a nearby university.

I have yet to see you make a claim as to what it means. Even Stephen King says he made the word up for his idea of mindless hairballs with lots of teeth.

Afraid someone told you wrong and you bought it. Not surprising because you bought the zombie jesus myth hook line and sinker.
Why that's just too funny! You wasted all this time and effort over one little remark I made. I never claimed it was a Russian word, I said you don't know what it means in Russian. I did not say I knew what it meant. LOL

I played a little word game that atheist play all the time. LOL

Keep digging! Someday you'll wake up. LOL

What a dolt.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#149549 Jan 23, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Is there a reason why you can't demonstrate that your god is anything more than a figment of the imagination?
What do you think? Come on nut job THINK! Just once try using your grey matter.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#149550 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are placing God in His material universe and trying to apply the restrictions of that universe to Him.
That is a bit like putting a car designer in a car, then telling him to forget he is a driver and to act like a car...
I can see how you may feel that way but it doesn't apply here. He is being given attributes that are inconsistent. That is all i was pointing out.

However if you want to move on to your beyond comprehension and outside of time and space claims... I can do that too.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#149551 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You are placing God in His material universe and trying to apply the restrictions of that universe to Him.
That is a bit like putting a car designer in a car, then telling him to forget he is a driver and to act like a car...
That's just it, there is no breaking the natural laws , no evidence of it what so ever. If there were this we could point to it as evidence of a god. It doesn't happen except in imagination.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#149552 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
News flash.
One of your atheist buddies just argued that there is a situation where rape is acceptable...
I will ask you to answer the same test, to see if your worldview is one you live by:
The last man and woman are on an island.
For the survival of the species, they need to procreate.
The man wants to and the woman does not.
Would it be okay for the man to rape the woman in this instance?
If it's ok for you to do that now, it's ok for you to do that then.

BTW it's never ok to take advantage or force yourself on anyone who doesn't want it.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#149553 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
How sophisticated do you need to be, to argue nonlife became life...
arockdidit encapsulates your problems quite appropriately.
If you want a little more sophistication, how about:
lotsofrocksdiditwithaboltoflig hting...
Who says a rock did anything?

Who are you arguing with about rocks?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#149554 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
News flash.
One of your atheist buddies just argued that there is a situation where rape is acceptable...
I will ask you to answer the same test, to see if your worldview is one you live by:
The last man and woman are on an island.
For the survival of the species, they need to procreate.
The man wants to and the woman does not.
Would it be okay for the man to rape the woman in this instance?
Unless he is absolutely necessary to retrieve coconuts, he would be risking getting killed in his sleep.

A wise man does not make a woman mad before he goes to sleep with her.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149555 Jan 23, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet you yourself make a comparison between God and a human with your example.
If God is not of this universe then how did it create the universe, which is so completely unlike it?
How does a potter create a pot, which is so unlike it?

How does a human create a car, which is so like it?

The object bears the imprint of the creator but is not equal to the creator.

The universe bears the imprint or God, but is not the same as God.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149556 Jan 23, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice diversion, but you didn't answer the question, which was:
"Slavery, rape and putting every infant to the sword isn't evil?"
Okay, first explain how you get the concept of evil without God?

Because until you can do that, your question cannot really be answered.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#149557 Jan 23, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
We have evidence for the big bang in the fact that the universe is expanding. Big Bang theory may turn out to be false but that does not change the fact that the universe is expanding.
We do not know for sure how life began on Earth though we do know for sure there is life.
There is no knowledge of any gods, or what they think, want, do or created. That's all pure fantasy and baseless speculation by death deniers.
Is it a coincidence to you that all those who beleive in god also deny the overwhelming evidence that death ends ones personal memory and awareness?
So if you are not sure how life began and you cannot comprehend it, then by your own admission, you cannot accept that it did happen.

Remember, your standard is that you must be able to comprehend something for it to be true, would you like to retract that?

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