Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
<quoted text> Cause the Bible or the Quran is really written by or inspired by a God, would have stuff brainy like QM, electricity, atoms, germs, bacteria, cures for cancer, etc. Instead it is written exactly as you would expect by goat herders and fishermen of the 1st century ;)
Entertaining, if illogical...you move from one generalization to another.
<quoted text> How does QM disprove a deity or higher intelligence creating this existence we have?
It doesn't make any claim one way or the other about this. But it *does* show the faults of many of the arguments claiming to prove the existence of deities. For example, the 'first cause' argument assumes some things about causality that are known to be wrong. But that only shows the argument is fallacious, not that the conclusion is wrong.
<quoted text> It has nothing to do with omnipotence. It has to do with omniscience. If God know's what you're going to do before you do it you have no choice but to do it. If you have freewill, then God doesn't/can't know what you will do before you do it.
You're wrong. God knows all that you will, might or could do. That does not in any way mean He controls what you will, might or could do. He's the passenger, you're the driver.
mtimber wrote: That is true, my brain has been washed of secular nonsense and illogical worldviews that serve no purpose other than to justify rebellion against the Creator. You're confusing rebellion with rejection. I reject your claims of a creator god. I reject all god claims. mtimber wrote: So yes, there is nothing you can do for me. Unless of course you could show empirically that arockdidit. Why would I do that?
Would it be too much to ask for a little sophistication?
How sophisticated do you need to be, to argue nonlife became life...
arockdidit encapsulates your problems quite appropriately.
If you want a little more sophistication, how about:
<quoted text> It doesn't make any claim one way or the other about this. But it *does* show the faults of many of the arguments claiming to prove the existence of deities. For example, the 'first cause' argument assumes some things about causality that are known to be wrong. But that only shows the argument is fallacious, not that the conclusion is wrong.
Which of the 10 odd theories or positions on quantum mechanics are you appealing to?
<quoted text> Which of the 10 odd theories or positions on quantum mechanics are you appealing to?
If anything, I'm of the 'shut up and calculate' viewpoint on QM. As far as I can see, most of the philosophies of QM fail because they attempt to explain QM based on classical ideas and that is exactly the wrong way around. You explain the *old* theory by using the *new* one.
And are you denying the universe has a cause?
I am neither affirming nor denying such. All of the following are possible given our current state of knowledge:
1) The universe has no cause.
2) The universe has multiple causes.
3) The universe has a single cause.
4) The concept of causality is meaningless when applied to the universe.
Of the four, the last seems most likely, followed by the first two.
<quoted text> Wrong. God is not in control of you or your actions or your thoughts. He gave that to you so you'd have free will.
Yet as soon as any control is ceded, omnipotence is gone.
That in no way removes His omnipotence. Just because He can control you doesn't mean that He does.
You are contradicting yourself. God is not in control yet is in control. Which is it? If God is in control then everything is necessarily God's will, including everything you do. Thus it's impossible to go against God's will.
Omnipotence means being omniresponsible, and you can't be omnipotent but only semi-responsible. It doesn't work that way.
Yes, again. God knows what you will do & will not prevent you from doing so. You can do X, Y, Z, LMNOP, X123c...... It's all up to you.
No, let's look at that again:
If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?
In this example, you can only ultimately choose X or Y, but not both (for example, you can't turn both left and right at the same time). So if God knows you will ultimately do X, then you can only do X. You have no free will. If on the other hand you say that you could do Y instead, then God was wrong. See how that works? It's really simple if you think about it. The future is only knowable if there is fate, and if there is fate, then free will is impossible.
<quoted text> I believe (not "know", "believe") that the flood story is an allegorical narrative representing the power of God and the potential wrath of God. I believe it was used as a primitive means to get people to listen, understand & fear God. That is my opinion.
Doesn't the flood story undermine the claim that God is benevolent? In that story, God doesn't seem to know that when it made humans it made them flawed, then decided to kill them all except for one family, and afterward humans were still flawed. God is hardly portrayed as either omnipotent or even omniscient. Doesn't God know the consequences of it's actions? Because if it does, then it's actions are pretty much evil.
<quoted text> You're wrong. God knows all that you will, might or could do. That does not in any way mean He controls what you will, might or could do. He's the passenger, you're the driver.
If god created morally challenged imperfect humans and then gave them free will, knowing full well the result would be sin then it proves he wanted sin and intended for sin all along. What could be more evil than to create a place like hell to torture the objects of your own creation? If the christian god exists he is pure evil.
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