Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 257121 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#149607 Jan 23, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
You claim a god then you prove a god or accept you are a liar.
It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him.
-- Abraham Lincoln
Nice quote, however history tells us that Abraham Lincoln believed in God and God was mentioned in several of his speeches. There’s plenty written about the 16th President to verify that fact.

Wiki:

Abraham Lincoln's religious beliefs are a matter of debate. Lincoln grew up in a highly religious family, but never joined any church. As a young man he was a skeptic. He frequently referenced God and quoted the Bible; he accompanied his wife and children to Protestant services, and after the deaths of two children became more intensely concerned with God's plan for mankind. He was private about his beliefs and respected the beliefs of others. Lincoln never made a clear profession of standard Christian beliefs; he did believe in an all-powerful God that shaped events and, by 1865, was expressing those beliefs in major speeches.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#149608 Jan 23, 2013
AntiFreakMachine wrote:
<quoted text>
What a crock.
So, when Jesus told his disciple Peter that he would deny him three times by the time the cock crew, what was that, free will, prophecy, or a "divine decree"?
Should have been: What a crock.
So, when Jesus told his disciple Peter that he would deny him three times by the time the cock >CROWED<, what was that, free will, prophecy, or a "divine decree"?

“Proud Member”

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#149609 Jan 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
People like you look at a rock and say "I'll bet that could come alive."
ugh
People like me look at at a rock and ask, how much?

“Proud Member”

Since: Dec 10

The Basket of Deplorables

#149610 Jan 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Just hope she doesn't come over there with a club with the intent of making you her woman.
LMAO!

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#149611 Jan 23, 2013
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>I've been working on one that uses a logarithmic scale, a bit like the Mercalli scale used to measure the intensity of earthquakes. With a little luck and substantial investment, it should be ready for the market later this year.
Good to hear.
Danzig

Västerås, Sweden

#149612 Jan 23, 2013
Here's something for the seeker of truth.

"Alkuajatus is your guide and the truth is your reward."

http://www.amazon.com/Alkuajatus-The-Original...
christianity is EVIL

West Pubnico, Canada

#149613 Jan 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because God knows what choices you will make doesn't mean He makes those choices for you.
Simple as that.
IF god created ALL
he created your future also,
NO free will

simple indeed
christianity is EVIL

West Pubnico, Canada

#149614 Jan 23, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
To move outside of space and time through special pleading would of course be illogical.
But if that claim was proven, then it would make sense to accept it.
If God is eternal, then time is something He is outside of.
If He is outside of time then He can predict what happens in time.
Through the revelation of prophecy in the scripture, He revealed Himself and gave man this mechanism to test Him against.
He passed that test, proving that He is outside of time as the Creator God would need to be.
So yes, He has proved Himself to all that are reasonable and open to proof on the matter.
god cant be outside of time heres why

God is defined as The Conscious First Cause -
The First Cause is That which caused Time
Consciousness is that which lets one make a decision.
A Decision is the action of changing ones mind from undecided to decided.
Time is the measure of change.

Something which is caused can't be required by that which causes it.

Time is required for Change,
A Decision is a Change.
Decisions require Time.
Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time.
God is Conscious.
God requires Time.
God can't be the cause of Time if God requires Time.
God isn't the cause of Time.
God isn't The First Cause.

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#149615 Jan 23, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone who believes in God is dishonest is that so?
Dude. You should have placed a period after dishonest, then asked the question.

What's the matter with you?

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#149616 Jan 23, 2013
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>god cant be outside of time heres why

God is defined as The Conscious First Cause -
The First Cause is That which caused Time
Consciousness is that which lets one make a decision.
A Decision is the action of changing ones mind from undecided to decided.
Time is the measure of change.

Something which is caused can't be required by that which causes it.

Time is required for Change,
A Decision is a Change.
Decisions require Time.
Consciousness can't let one make a decision without Time.
Consciousness requires Time.
God is Conscious.
God requires Time.
God can't be the cause of Time if God requires Time.
God isn't the cause of Time.
God isn't The First Cause.
You some how seem to believe that God must adhere to your line if reasoning. What a hoot!

Pretty funny.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#149617 Jan 23, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because God knows what choices you will make doesn't mean He makes those choices for you.
Simple as that.
It has nothing to do with making choices for you. It has to do with omniscience and freewill.

For any future act you will perform, if some being infallibly believed in the past that the act would occur, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed what he believed since nobody has any control over past events; nor can you make him mistaken in his belief, given that he is infallible. Therefore, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed in a way that cannot be mistaken that you would do what you will do. But if so, you cannot do otherwise than what he believed you would do. And if you cannot do otherwise, you will not perform the act freely.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#149618 Jan 23, 2013
Serah

Wynn Vale, Australia

#149619 Jan 23, 2013
AntiFreakMachine wrote:
<quoted text>
What a crock.
So, when Jesus told his disciple Peter that he would deny him three times by the time the cock crew, what was that, free will, prophecy, or a "divine decree"?
LOL.. not that hard to work out, especially if you know how to use a dictionary :)

***prophecy - definition of prophecy by the Free Online Dictionary ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/prophecy
a. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will. b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration***

So, a prediction of the future is what? Have you learned something today??
Serah

Wynn Vale, Australia

#149620 Jan 23, 2013
Pat wrote:
<quoted text>
You claim a god then you prove a god or accept you are a liar.
It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him.
-- Abraham Lincoln
***n 1862 and 1863, during the most difficult days of the Civil War and his presidency, Lincoln's utterances were sometimes marked with spiritual overtones.
1862: Bereavement and Emancipation

On Thursday, February 20, 1862, at 5:00 P.M. Lincoln's eleven year old son, William Wallace Lincoln (Willie), died in the White House. Historians suggest that this may have been the most difficult personal crisis in his life. After the funeral, Lincoln attempted a return to his routine, but he was unable. One week after the funeral, he isolated himself in his office and wept all day. Several people report that Lincoln told them that his feelings about religion changed at this time. Willie is reported to have often remarked that he wanted to be a minister someday.[19] When he died, Lincoln reportedly said, "May God live in all. He was too good for this earth. The good Lord has called him home. I know that he is much better off in Heaven."[20][21]

Spiritualism, popularly in vogue during this era, was tried by Lincoln's wife. Mrs. Lincoln used the services of mediums and spiritualists to try to contact their dead son. Lincoln allegedly attended at least one seance at the White House with Mrs. Lincoln at this time.[22]

At the same time, the War was not going well for the Union. General George McClellan's failure in the Peninsula Campaign came about within months after Willie's death. Next came Robert E. Lee's impressive victory at the Second Battle of Bull Run, after which he said, "I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go."[23][24]

According to Salmon Chase, as he was preparing to issue the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln said, "I made a solemn vow before God, that if General Lee was driven back from Maryland I would crown the result by the declaration of freedom to the slaves."[25] The differences in interpretation of the President's statement can be due to the belief that "swearing or vowing" to God was blasphemous to some religious sects.

At the same time, Lincoln sat down in his office and penned the following words:

The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party -- and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say that this is probably true -- that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere great power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And, having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds.[26]***

Abraham Lincoln certainly showed good sense in his logic!!:)

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#149621 Jan 23, 2013
madscot wrote:
<quoted text>
It has nothing to do with making choices for you. It has to do with omniscience and freewill.
For any future act you will perform, if some being infallibly believed in the past that the act would occur, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed what he believed since nobody has any control over past events; nor can you make him mistaken in his belief, given that he is infallible. Therefore, there is nothing you can do now about the fact that he believed in a way that cannot be mistaken that you would do what you will do. But if so, you cannot do otherwise than what he believed you would do. And if you cannot do otherwise, you will not perform the act freely.
I have a hard time saying this... but I have to agree with Riverside redneck on this... that was painful to type.

I don't know if you have read my comment on this a few pages back... but in case you did and still don't follow, im going to use another scenario I'm stealing from a YouTube video i watched.

If i wrote down everything you did for the next week.. then i came back in time and gave you that envelope now and told you not to open it for a week... when you opened it you would find that you did everything i recorded. Apart from the butterfly effect from giving you the envelope, i did not interfere with your free will.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#149622 Jan 23, 2013
Oops?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#149623 Jan 23, 2013
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>LOL.. not that hard to work out, especially if you know how to use a dictionary :)
***prophecy - definition of prophecy by the Free Online Dictionary ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/prophecy
a. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will. b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration***
So, a prediction of the future is what? Have you learned something today??
According to the myth, that would be a negation of free will.

I trust you've enjoyed the lesson.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#149624 Jan 23, 2013
EmpAtheist wrote:
Oops?
Everybody makes mistakes.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#149625 Jan 23, 2013
Is someone here asserting that humans have free will or that omniscience exists?

We can define omniscience in such a way that it would be compatible with free will, but they are both fictional concepts.

Whether or not the concepts are logically compatible depends on the definition of each concept. I could argue from either side as long as the concepts are well defined.

I think it would be more interesting to argue if either could exist, or do exist, and explain how.
Serah

Wynn Vale, Australia

#149626 Jan 23, 2013
AntiFreakMachine wrote:
<quoted text> According to the myth, that would be a negation of free will.
I trust you've enjoyed the lesson.
JESUS warned/prophesied Peter that he would deny JESUS three times ~ just because Peter chose to deny JESUS (even after denying that he would deny him prior to that) does not mean Peter had his free will taken away.

Peter denied knowing JESUS because he was scared.....

Trust you have enjoyed furthering your lesson :)

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