Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149417 Jan 22, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Nope. I'm just pointing out that things like that show how the flood story could not possibly happened as described.
I agree. I've posted several times that I believe the flood was a massive, localized flood.

Creationists hate me for it.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149418 Jan 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
WTF?
So I see the liberal in you says its bad to tirture terrorists to save innocent lives....
Nice.
Torture doesn't save lives. Torture just makes the person being tortured say or do anything to save themselves. It's well known within the intelligence community that torture is not an effective way to get valid information.

Moreover, torture just turns us as a society into something as bad as those we call our enemies. It's a perfect example of the ends not justifying the means. When our society condones things like torture, then it is no longer worthy of defending.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149419 Jan 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You're still incorrect.
God, who is all powerful, is not in control if those that do evil and harm or kill others.
He gave us free will.
You contradict yourself. Something that is all-powerful is by definition in control of everything. Any lack of control takes away omnipotence.

Furthermore, free-will is impossible if God knows the future and the destiny of everything in advance anyway: If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#149420 Jan 22, 2013
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
u do follow what the saints say, u cute muppet!
Don't u think slavery is wrong? Of course u do!
Don't u think we should try to be good people and help each other? Of course u do!!!
If u didn't, u wouldn't be here fighting with the christians for believing in an evil God!
You r an annoying sheepy boy, but from what u say, u sound like a good human-being!
I told u, we r not the chosen people of God!! Good people can belong to any religion or no religion, they can even believe in unicorns!! But people who TRY to be good humans are the people of 'GOD'!
If everyone in the world loved each other, do u think any religion would have been created? NO, it wouldn't have!! Coz everyone would be a saint!!
Just because I believe that murder is wrong, it does not mean that I follow the bible god. Just because I am nice to people, doesn't mean that I follow your saints.

Yes, you are not the chosen people; your people just remembered the old religion....

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#149421 Jan 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Not $170 million worth of neat stuff....
Still whining.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#149422 Jan 22, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I really liked that movie.
Let's watch it in the pool while we play seahorse.
Do you know how to play seahorse?
OMG, R U SAYING WHAT I THINK U SAYING?

You want me to give u a piggyback in the pool?

I ain't strong and u ain't light, u'll break by back!

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#149423 Jan 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I've posted several times that I believe the flood was a massive, localized flood.
Creationists hate me for it.
Well, creationists are nuts anyway, so that's cool.

But let's put aside the literal translation of the story. If the flood story is a moral parable, then what kind of morality is it promoting? From what I can see, it says God didn't know the consequences of creating humans the way it did, it decided to destroy all life on Earth (not just humans) except for a pair of each animal and Noah's family. Which means that children, babies, and even fetuses in pregnant women were too evil in the sight of God to survive. Yet after the flood receded, humans became just as bad as before, so all that terrible destruction was for naught anyway. What are we supposed to learn about God from this story of ineffective global genocide?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#149424 Jan 22, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because I believe that murder is wrong, it does not mean that I follow the bible god. Just because I am nice to people, doesn't mean that I follow your saints.
Yes, you are not the chosen people; your people just remembered the old religion....
bye-bye, sheepy guy!
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#149425 Jan 22, 2013
Exactly. The Iain Banks thought experiment is only there to answer the "But what if a bomb was about to go off and you could stop it by torturing somebody." question. I'd do it but take the consequences because torture is always a crime.
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Torture doesn't save lives. Torture just makes the person being tortured say or do anything to save themselves. It's well known within the intelligence community that torture is not an effective way to get valid information.
Moreover, torture just turns us as a society into something as bad as those we call our enemies. It's a perfect example of the ends not justifying the means. When our society condones things like torture, then it is no longer worthy of defending.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149426 Jan 22, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Cool, I choose to denounce your god yet not go to hell.
<quoted text>
Cool.
Figure how to control your soul & you're good to go.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149427 Jan 22, 2013
Thinking wrote:
You don't read too well.
I said do it- but accept the consequences.
<quoted text>
Oh, that's right.

You said it's ok to break the law, so long as you turn yourself in afterward......

Ugh

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149428 Jan 22, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
Torture doesn't save lives. Torture just makes the person being tortured say or do anything to save themselves. It's well known within the intelligence community that torture is not an effective way to get valid information.
Moreover, torture just turns us as a society into something as bad as those we call our enemies. It's a perfect example of the ends not justifying the means. When our society condones things like torture, then it is no longer worthy of defending.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here & take a wild guess.

You're a liberal democrat, huh?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149429 Jan 22, 2013
wilderide wrote:
You contradict yourself. Something that is all-powerful is by definition in control of everything. Any lack of control takes away omnipotence.
Wrong. God is not in control of you or your actions or your thoughts. He gave that to you so you'd have free will.

That in no way removes His omnipotence. Just because He can control you doesn't mean that He does.
Furthermore, free-will is impossible if God knows the future and the destiny of everything in advance anyway: If God knows you will do X, can you do Y instead?
Yes, again. God knows what you will do & will not prevent you from doing so. You can do X, Y, Z, LMNOP, X123c...... It's all up to you.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149430 Jan 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Still whining.
I think the word you're looking for is "winning"...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#149431 Jan 22, 2013
wilderide wrote:
Well, creationists are nuts anyway, so that's cool.
But let's put aside the literal translation of the story. If the flood story is a moral parable, then what kind of morality is it promoting? From what I can see, it says God didn't know the consequences of creating humans the way it did, it decided to destroy all life on Earth (not just humans) except for a pair of each animal and Noah's family. Which means that children, babies, and even fetuses in pregnant women were too evil in the sight of God to survive. Yet after the flood receded, humans became just as bad as before, so all that terrible destruction was for naught anyway. What are we supposed to learn about God from this story of ineffective global genocide?
I believe (not "know", "believe") that the flood story is an allegorical narrative representing the power of God and the potential wrath of God. I believe it was used as a primitive means to get people to listen, understand & fear God.

That is my opinion.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#149432 Jan 22, 2013
Clementia wrote:
OMG, R U SAYING WHAT I THINK U SAYING?
You want me to give u a piggyback in the pool?
I ain't strong and u ain't light, u'll break by back!
Then we can do a seahorse race instead.

We can call it the Kentucky Sea Derby.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#149433 Jan 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_knife
The limitation is what makes the scribe line. Glass is individual molecules that cooled together. Not bonded like steel.
You never read Snow Crash?
Amounts to 1 micron, nothing has an edge of 1 mole. Not yet anyway.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149434 Jan 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
So these particles are not hard thingies? Kinda fuzzy and more concentrated in the middle? Perhaps unobservable because of the observation process? Or just deduced from math schemes?
None of the above. Quantum particles do not have classical analogs. The fields are defined everywhere, but give the *probability* of detecting a particle. For elementary particles (like electrons or quarks) there is no discernible size for each individual particle (although string theory postulates a very small size-well below the level of detectability today). For composite particles (like protons and neutrons), there is. But even when there is, it is detectable via a smearing out of the probability distribution.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#149435 Jan 22, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
None of the above. Quantum particles do not have classical analogs. The fields are defined everywhere, but give the *probability* of detecting a particle. For elementary particles (like electrons or quarks) there is no discernible size for each individual particle (although string theory postulates a very small size-well below the level of detectability today). For composite particles (like protons and neutrons), there is. But even when there is, it is detectable via a smearing out of the probability distribution.
Cool.

So reality is a bunch of fuzzy probabilities, and not real pre-existing thingies.

Wow! Those Topix atheists are pretty sharp dudes for betting on that horse.

Yessiree. That explains creation better than anything.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#149436 Jan 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Cool.
So reality is a bunch of fuzzy probabilities, and not real pre-existing thingies.
Wow! Those Topix atheists are pretty sharp dudes for betting on that horse.
Yessiree. That explains creation better than anything.
You propose a dichotomy that is false. Yes, they are real-existent entities, but they are not classical entities with definite positions and other definite properties. Instead, their properties are probabilistic.

And this has NOTHING to do with atheism. It is simply modern physics. The universe is inherently probabilistic. We know that by a variety of methods, including some that manage to exclude *any* local, causal theory. If your intuition can't handle that, then the problem is with your intuition, not with the reality.

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