Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Since: Jan 13

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#149209
Jan 21, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Slavery is a perfect example of this very thing you speak.
It was once perfectly acceptable, but the minds shifted that it wasn't. So it became immoral, mind you this shift took hundreds of years to complete. There is no flaw here we can see examples in history, as society's changed so did morality.
Is it moral to burn witches at the stake?
It once was, and they did by moral minded Christians, who believed themselves right. But this unthinkable now, and more than a few steps away from what thought to be moral.
So slavery was not morally wrong when everyone practiced it?

But it is now wrong because society has evolved morally?

So if you were living in the time when slavery was acceptable, would slavery have been immoral?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149210
Jan 21, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Honestly, i don't even know what the question was or what the point of the rape discussion is all about but anyway.
We agree coz our heart say's so, coz of my 'God'/ your empathy, not coz of our governments. Governments are not ethical and all that sh*t, they do everything for their own benefit. People who only fear the law and don't have empathy, change when the law changes.
Do u really think that the majority of the people in America have more empathy compared to the people in India/China?
It's about how Christians think morality is a gift from god, when it is a standard we hold ourselves to in reality.
It has nothing to do with god other than for those who believe they receive guidance from religion. But it isn't so , because if anything religion can swing morality to immoral acts against personal thought. I don't personally think that people from anywhere are that much different , despite religion in what we have ultimately decided as moral standard.
The universal declaration of human rights is testament of that.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.sht...

Most all the world agreed on this standard.

Since: Oct 12

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#149211
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said, and it is exactly why it has changed over time.
For instance it was once morally acceptable to own slaves.
Morality does not change!!!

That's the problem, most of us humans follow society and not our heart.

It was acceptable to keep slaves then, but i bet u, that the moral individuals didn't keep any slaves.

America threw bombs on Iraq and killed so many innocent children. Stupid people support America's actions, but moral people call America a big bully!

U think throwing bombs on little children is better than keeping slaves? How has society gotten better? It hasn't, evil has just taken on a different form!
Thinking

Huntingdon, UK

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#149212
Jan 21, 2013
 
Bollocks.
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians like rational answers.
Atheists are happy to have faith.
Is that the point you are trying to make?
:-)

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149213
Jan 21, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So slavery was not morally wrong when everyone practiced it?
But it is now wrong because society has evolved morally?
So if you were living in the time when slavery was acceptable, would slavery have been immoral?
I cannot say because I wasn't there, but can only say I don't think I would have thought it to be. But In defense of the ignorance of slaveholders, they really thought the slaves were more like animals than humans then. that frame of mind changed, I think when everyone actually discovered that the slaves were just as human and feeling as anyone else. This probably didn't take as long as it did to end the practice, because their was profit involved.
As long as profit is involved there will be greedy men who don't care what feelings get in their way.
Thinking

Huntingdon, UK

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#149214
Jan 21, 2013
 
Yes it does. Moreover, morality predates any modern religion.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Morality does not change!!!

Since: Oct 12

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#149215
Jan 21, 2013
 

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mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So slavery was not morally wrong when everyone practiced it?
But it is now wrong because society has evolved morally?
So if you were living in the time when slavery was acceptable, would slavery have been immoral?
It was always morally wrong, but an evil society allowed it to happen! Moral people have been fighting against evil since the beginning.

No, because Aura moves with society, he's influenced by society, so if he was in the olden days, he would have kept slaves, too.

LOL, i'm gonna get a telling off from Aura! I love u really, buddy!! I'm just sayin'. Forgive me!!

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#149216
Jan 21, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep contradicting yourself...
In the first sentence you state there is no ultimate standard of morality.
Then in the last sentence you appeal to an ultimate standard of morality when you make your appeals of outrage.
You need to make up your mind, because all you are telling me about atheism at the moment, is that it cannot even supply a consistent rational basis for morality.
You still fail to grasp your own fundamental breakdown in logic.
If there is no ultimate absolute standard of morality, then nothing is absolutely immoral...
Actually, I think you are finally getting it! Just think a little bit harder and I think we may have a break through!

Let me know when the light bulb shines!

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#149217
Jan 21, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
But what happens when in a society more people agree that rape is acceptable?
You don't know?
mtimber wrote:
Which has and does indeed happen.
If that is your standard, then you will of course be duty bound morally, based on your own professed standard, to honour that position of that society.
I'm not duty bound to shit. That must be where you're having trouble understanding me. I make my own rules.
mtimber wrote:
And as to you having empathy.
You are a rock that turned into a man, why does empathy matter?
It gives us a survival advantage as a species.

Personally, empathy influences me to be more tolerant and considerate to others, which makes me feel good, and generally leads to people expressing empathy towards me in return.
mtimber wrote:
Empathy for an atheist is little more than a convenience that can be dropped at any time.
That is true for all people. Disparaging atheists in this way is dishonest.
mtimber wrote:
In fact, it seems that much of mankind has evolved very little empathy if the news is anything to go by.
The news isn't anything to go by.
mtimber wrote:
So how do you account for this seeming lack of empathy in your fellow man?
We do not have equality in the word. That is why empathy is not a higher priority in some people.
mtimber wrote:
You cannot of course.
And this is why your atheistic worldview is totally bankrupt.
It cannot answer the most basic "why" questions that humanity asks...
Atheism only answers one question, "Do you believe in any gods?", with the answer, "No."

I get the feeling that you would like for my worldview to have a name, but it doesn't. It's personal to me.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149218
Jan 21, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Morality does not change!!!
That's the problem, most of us humans follow society and not our heart.
It was acceptable to keep slaves then, but i bet u, that the moral individuals didn't keep any slaves.
America threw bombs on Iraq and killed so many innocent children. Stupid people support America's actions, but moral people call America a big bully!
U think throwing bombs on little children is better than keeping slaves? How has society gotten better? It hasn't, evil has just taken on a different form!
I may agree with you and have said so in the past, but morality is not the issue here, it is blocking it out.
Why do you think they would raise such a stink over guns here now killing children?

Because they want to achieve two goals,
1. Block your mind of it.
2. Pull the teeth of resistance to such things.

They will never take our guns, because we are the force and power of the government, and lest they forget that we can take it back.
We may have to remind them.

No they wrong, and wrong again, in this we can both agree.

Since: Oct 12

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#149219
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> It's about how Christians think morality is a gift from god, when it is a standard we hold ourselves to in reality.
It has nothing to do with god other than for those who believe they receive guidance from religion. But it isn't so , because if anything religion can swing morality to immoral acts against personal thought. I don't personally think that people from anywhere are that much different , despite religion in what we have ultimately decided as moral standard.
The universal declaration of human rights is testament of that.
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.sht...
Most all the world agreed on this standard.
Morality is the God!

We are all capable of being good, but some of us choose not to be.

Human right's, bulsh*t!

Which country hasn't gone against all these acts?

The truth is morality is scarce, it's a rare thing to find in humans.

How can u not see that all our governments are evil? religious leaders are evil, Our society is evil?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149220
Jan 21, 2013
 
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
So slavery was not morally wrong when everyone practiced it?
But it is now wrong because society has evolved morally?
So if you were living in the time when slavery was acceptable, would slavery have been immoral?
They believed it to not be morally wrong to burn witches either. Or be entertained by public hangings. But the morality of people does shift.
Thinking

Huntingdon, UK

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#149221
Jan 21, 2013
 
Slavery was always wrong- but only by applying today's non religious morals.

Religious morality said slavery was OK.

Therefore morality can change, and change for the better.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
It was always morally wrong, but an evil society allowed it to happen! Moral people have been fighting against evil since the beginning.
No, because Aura moves with society, he's influenced by society, so if he was in the olden days, he would have kept slaves, too.
LOL, i'm gonna get a telling off from Aura! I love u really, buddy!! I'm just sayin'. Forgive me!!

Since: Oct 12

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#149222
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Thinking wrote:
Yes it does. Moreover, morality predates any modern religion.
<quoted text>
No, it doesn't!

Morality has got nothing to do with u believing in a God or gods!

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#149223
Jan 21, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Morality does not change!!!
Morality changes all the time! It all depends on where in the world you are.

The bible god stated that girls who lost their virginity before marriage were to be stone or burned to death. Most of the world does not believe that is proper or moral anymore.

Now since the bible god said to do it and most of us ignore him, that should tell you something about the bible god!

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149224
Jan 21, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
It was always morally wrong, but an evil society allowed it to happen! Moral people have been fighting against evil since the beginning.
No, because Aura moves with society, he's influenced by society, so if he was in the olden days, he would have kept slaves, too.
LOL, i'm gonna get a telling off from Aura! I love u really, buddy!! I'm just sayin'. Forgive me!!
No dear, it's just very hard to say what we would feel in another time. We can only say what we feel to be right now. As much as you may feel somethings moral now , it could change over time. It's quite hard to imagine it, but we must remember it was moral to fight criminals and slaves to death in arena. Conquer ans enslave other cultures as well as destroy whole nations for little more than the spread of an Empire once.

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#149225
Jan 21, 2013
 

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Thinking wrote:
Slavery was always wrong- but only by applying today's non religious morals.
Religious morality said slavery was OK.
Therefore morality can change, and change for the better.
<quoted text>
NO, SAINTS IN OUR RELIGIONS, HAVE ALWAYS SAID SLAVERY IS A SIN. INDIANS KNOW THAT THE SAINTS WOULD NEVER ALLOW SLAVERY. IT WAS WRONG SINCE BEGINNING OF THE VEDAS AND IT'S WRONG WRONG WRONG IN THE GGS. BUT INDIANS STILL DO IT COZ THEY R HEARTLESS.
DON'T TELL ME CRAP ABOUT WESTERN RELIGIONS!
Thinking

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#149226
Jan 21, 2013
 
Exactly. That's why morals today are different to 500 years ago.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it doesn't!
Morality has got nothing to do with u believing in a God or gods!

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#149227
Jan 21, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Morality is the God!
We are all capable of being good, but some of us choose not to be.
Human right's, bulsh*t!
Which country hasn't gone against all these acts?
The truth is morality is scarce, it's a rare thing to find in humans.
How can u not see that all our governments are evil? religious leaders are evil, Our society is evil?
I don't know that see people as inherit evil as you. I see competition by predators who are natural born killers, giving in to animalistic instincts. We can conquer this , if we use our heads.
But we are predators , it's not evil that we are, it is the way of our biosphere. Perhaps a design flaw, but it is the way we evolved over time, we can learn this, and knowing is half the battle.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#149228
Jan 21, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
Honestly, i don't even know what the question was or what the point of the rape discussion is all about but anyway.
We agree coz our heart say's so, coz of my 'God'/ your empathy, not coz of our governments. Governments are not ethical and all that sh*t, they do everything for their own benefit. People who only fear the law and don't have empathy, change when the law changes.
Do u really think that the majority of the people in America have more empathy compared to the people in India/China?
I don't know who has what amount of empathy. I can only look at behavior.

People who have everything that they need, and live in a relatively free society, would have little reason to harm other people. Even with empathy, a starving person may steal from another very poor person, and that very poor person may kill the starving person, and feel terrible about it. People who feel their own life is in danger will usually not empathize with the person who is threatening their life. To solve the problems, we need to reduce the causes of them. Most of the causes have to do with access to resources and the social environment people live in.

Greater access to resources and stable governments solve all kinds of societal problems.

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