Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147748 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You said that if God existed, He would leave evidence.
Why do you assume that?
If there is no observable nor measurable impact of a deity, then the very idea that such a meaningless entity might actually exist is an absurd consideration.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#147749 Jan 9, 2013
Or nothing more than the product of someone's vivid imagination. Again supposedly god/s were always interacting with humans. Fighting along side them, knocking them up, and having all night wrestlefests man lovin all alone with Jacob.

Yet for some reason ever since say 2000 years ago as more and more people documented properly what they observed god/s kind of vanished.

Perhaps Yahweh/Jesus doesn't want us mocking his unabrow?:))
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is no observable nor measurable impact of a deity, then the very idea that such a meaningless entity might actually exist is an absurd consideration.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147750 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>What? I never said anything close to that.

There's no object God couldn't lift.
So since he can't make one, he's not god.

You're kind of new to logic, aren't you.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147751 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
If there is no observable nor measurable impact of a deity, then the very idea that such a meaningless entity might actually exist is an absurd consideration.
Have you devised a way to test for deities?

If so, what are you holding back on? Get that tester out & let's test for God!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147752 Jan 9, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
So since he can't make one, he's not god.
You're kind of new to logic, aren't you.
Eh?

God can't make something too heavy for Him to lift because He could lift anything He wants.

You think that's the GOTCHA logic?

LOL

There are things that God can't do.

He can't lie.

He can't sin.

He can't hate.

he can't learn anything new.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147753 Jan 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Or nothing more than the product of someone's vivid imagination. Again supposedly god/s were always interacting with humans. Fighting along side them, knocking them up, and having all night wrestlefests man lovin all alone with Jacob.
Yet for some reason ever since say 2000 years ago as more and more people documented properly what they observed god/s kind of vanished.
Perhaps Yahweh/Jesus doesn't want us mocking his unabrow?:))
<quoted text>
Perhaps everything changed when Jesus died for us...

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#147754 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm too busy for wild god chases.
Tell the dude to make an appearance.
It shouldn't be difficult for someone omnipotent.
You’re too busy playing multiple roles as women.

You are weird dude.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147755 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you devised a way to test for deities?
If so, what are you holding back on? Get that tester out & let's test for God!
In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.

When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.

It make absolutely no sense to say that something exists when there no possible way of testing its existence?

Have you defined a set of testable properties for a deity yet?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147756 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Eh?
God can't make something too heavy for Him to lift because He could lift anything He wants.
You think that's the GOTCHA logic?
LOL
No, that's not "gotcha" logic. It's called a paradox.

There is no way to satisfy both parts of the question, either deity can make an object he can't life an therefore is not omnipotent, or he cannot make such an object and is not omnipotent.

A paradoxical property cannot exist for any entity, neither in reality nor in the imagination.

What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147757 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.
When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.
It make absolutely no sense to say that something exists when there no possible way of testing its existence?
OK, so you have no way of testing deities. So you have no logical way of determining that they do't exist.

Got it.
Have you defined a set of testable properties for a deity yet?
Don't need to. God proved Himself to me long ago

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147758 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's not "gotcha" logic. It's called a paradox.
There is no way to satisfy both parts of the question, either deity can make an object he can't life an therefore is not omnipotent, or he cannot make such an object and is not omnipotent.
A paradoxical property cannot exist for any entity, neither in reality nor in the imagination.
What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance.
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the feeling of discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs.

I am feeling no discomfort of conflicting beliefs.

There is nothing God can create that He could not lift.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147759 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Eh?
God can't make something too heavy for Him to lift because He could lift anything He wants.
You think that's the GOTCHA logic?
LOL
There are things that God can't do.
He can't lie.
He can't sin.
He can't hate.
he can't learn anything new.
That's a lot of "can't"s for an omnipotent being.

That last one would seem to apply to you as well.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147760 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, so you have no way of testing deities. So you have no logical way of determining that they do't exist.
Got it.
Same holds true for faries, gnomes, Easter Bunnies, etc.

What if I said there was an invisible fire breathing dragon in my garage?

According to your [il]logic, all of these things should be considered to exist if you can't prove they don't.

(ref: "Dragon on My Garage", Carl Sagan - " http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm&... ;)

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#147761 Jan 9, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You’re too busy playing multiple roles as women.
You are weird dude.
Careful Eagle.

For all you know, I may be God.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#147762 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the feeling of discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs.
I am feeling no discomfort of conflicting beliefs.
There is nothing God can create that He could not lift.
Cognitive Dissonance: The state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, esp. as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

You don't necessarily feel discomfort when you have cognitive dissonance.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#147763 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
Careful Eagle.
For all you know, I may be God.
You don't want to take on that kind of liability.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#147764 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Careful Eagle.
For all you know, I may be God.
I have nothing against you Catcher with the exception you weird out this site with your role playing as women.

Why do you do that?

If you want to fantasize write a romance novel. At least you could make some money at it.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147765 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.
When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.
It make absolutely no sense to say that something exists when there no possible way of testing its existence?
Have you defined a set of testable properties for a deity yet?
It has been done , the only physical existence of god proven is in the brain. God is a condition of the brain. So is it an entity?
Doubtful , but there's no doubt it exists in abstract.
But far from omnipotent and has a very limited existence.
God is imprisoned in the minds of those who believe.

Hard to say if that is "real" but it is for them.

Some would call it a brain disorder , I will call it a condition of the mind.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147766 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Careful Eagle.
For all you know, I may be God.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#147767 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
...
Don't need to. God proved Himself to me long ago
You credited the god you believe in, like believers do.

It's reasonable to expect this to happen.

It's how superstitions work.

We are all trained in various ways of interpreting reality. Rational skepticism has been demonstrated to be the best way to do this so far. The scientific method may have even saved mankind from extinction already. If there's a better way of using our minds to navigate reality, I don't know of it.

Anything that CAN be interpreted to support your beliefs, probably WILL be interpreted to support your beliefs. Faith is probably the least rigorous way of knowing anything. As a methodology, it isn't internally or externally consistent. It's performance is similar to guessing. It's been demonstrated to be dangerous, while only offering benefits equal to the placebo effect.

Technological advancements have allowed humans to get the same things accomplished with less risk. We strive to make things more efficient and safer. Faith and religion are already seen by skeptics as outdated, dangerous, and unnecessary. Sooner or later, everyone will know it. I just hope it happens before the Rapture.

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