Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147745 Jan 9, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
So much wrong is such a short sentence.
First, causality depends on the notion of time and time is part of the universe. So either time is infinite into the past, allowing for an infinite string of causality, or time is finite into the past and causality is meaningless for the 'first' event. Either way, talking about a cause for the universe as a whole is problematic, to say the least.
Second, we know of uncaused events in our own universe, so the assumption that everything needs to be caused is already known to be wrong. What argument do you have that the universe was, in fact, caused?
Third, even if causality is an aspect here, there is no reason there needs to be a *single* cause for the whole universe, as opposed to multiple causes (which tends to be the case for most things in the universe). Why not say the universe was caused by a committee?
Fourth, even if there is a single cause for the universe, the identification of this cause with 'God' is problematic, to say the least. You see, simply having a cause does not imply an intelligence, consciousness, morality, or even ownership.
Fifth, unlike your avoidance of the issue, YOUR claims make the positive existence statement, so are the ones with the burden of proof. WE do not have to show them wrong; YOU have to show them correct.
I can't prove them right. I can't prove them wrong. I'm not an astrologist or a scientist of any kind. I can fix your car, I can put new windows in your house, I can rebuild your lawnmower engine, I can probably out drink you, but I cannot prove or disprove anything having to do with the origin of the universe. All we're doing here is speculation, because you can't prove it either way either.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147746 Jan 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Assume what? I made no assumptions, so you'll have to be specific in what part you are unclear.
You said that if God existed, He would leave evidence.

Why do you assume that?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147747 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't prove them right. I can't prove them wrong. I'm not an astrologist or a scientist of any kind. I can fix your car, I can put new windows in your house, I can rebuild your lawnmower engine, I can probably out drink you, but I cannot prove or disprove anything having to do with the origin of the universe. All we're doing here is speculation, because you can't prove it either way either.
There is a huge difference between hypotheses based on available evidence (red shift, CMBR, etc.) and speculation based on personal wish fulfillment (desire to matter to the universe, eternal life, etc.)

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147748 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You said that if God existed, He would leave evidence.
Why do you assume that?
If there is no observable nor measurable impact of a deity, then the very idea that such a meaningless entity might actually exist is an absurd consideration.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#147749 Jan 9, 2013
Or nothing more than the product of someone's vivid imagination. Again supposedly god/s were always interacting with humans. Fighting along side them, knocking them up, and having all night wrestlefests man lovin all alone with Jacob.

Yet for some reason ever since say 2000 years ago as more and more people documented properly what they observed god/s kind of vanished.

Perhaps Yahweh/Jesus doesn't want us mocking his unabrow?:))
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
If there is no observable nor measurable impact of a deity, then the very idea that such a meaningless entity might actually exist is an absurd consideration.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147750 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>What? I never said anything close to that.

There's no object God couldn't lift.
So since he can't make one, he's not god.

You're kind of new to logic, aren't you.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147751 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
If there is no observable nor measurable impact of a deity, then the very idea that such a meaningless entity might actually exist is an absurd consideration.
Have you devised a way to test for deities?

If so, what are you holding back on? Get that tester out & let's test for God!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147752 Jan 9, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
So since he can't make one, he's not god.
You're kind of new to logic, aren't you.
Eh?

God can't make something too heavy for Him to lift because He could lift anything He wants.

You think that's the GOTCHA logic?

LOL

There are things that God can't do.

He can't lie.

He can't sin.

He can't hate.

he can't learn anything new.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147753 Jan 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Or nothing more than the product of someone's vivid imagination. Again supposedly god/s were always interacting with humans. Fighting along side them, knocking them up, and having all night wrestlefests man lovin all alone with Jacob.
Yet for some reason ever since say 2000 years ago as more and more people documented properly what they observed god/s kind of vanished.
Perhaps Yahweh/Jesus doesn't want us mocking his unabrow?:))
<quoted text>
Perhaps everything changed when Jesus died for us...

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#147754 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm too busy for wild god chases.
Tell the dude to make an appearance.
It shouldn't be difficult for someone omnipotent.
You’re too busy playing multiple roles as women.

You are weird dude.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147755 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you devised a way to test for deities?
If so, what are you holding back on? Get that tester out & let's test for God!
In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.

When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.

It make absolutely no sense to say that something exists when there no possible way of testing its existence?

Have you defined a set of testable properties for a deity yet?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147756 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Eh?
God can't make something too heavy for Him to lift because He could lift anything He wants.
You think that's the GOTCHA logic?
LOL
No, that's not "gotcha" logic. It's called a paradox.

There is no way to satisfy both parts of the question, either deity can make an object he can't life an therefore is not omnipotent, or he cannot make such an object and is not omnipotent.

A paradoxical property cannot exist for any entity, neither in reality nor in the imagination.

What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147757 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
In order to determine whether an object exists or not, the properties of that object have to be clear enough to allow some sort of judgment based on the evidence.
When it comes to the question of gods, there is little to no agreement about the properties, so no determination of existence can be possible and the question is, strictly speaking, meaningless.
It make absolutely no sense to say that something exists when there no possible way of testing its existence?
OK, so you have no way of testing deities. So you have no logical way of determining that they do't exist.

Got it.
Have you defined a set of testable properties for a deity yet?
Don't need to. God proved Himself to me long ago

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147758 Jan 9, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, that's not "gotcha" logic. It's called a paradox.
There is no way to satisfy both parts of the question, either deity can make an object he can't life an therefore is not omnipotent, or he cannot make such an object and is not omnipotent.
A paradoxical property cannot exist for any entity, neither in reality nor in the imagination.
What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance.
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the feeling of discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs.

I am feeling no discomfort of conflicting beliefs.

There is nothing God can create that He could not lift.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147759 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Eh?
God can't make something too heavy for Him to lift because He could lift anything He wants.
You think that's the GOTCHA logic?
LOL
There are things that God can't do.
He can't lie.
He can't sin.
He can't hate.
he can't learn anything new.
That's a lot of "can't"s for an omnipotent being.

That last one would seem to apply to you as well.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147760 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, so you have no way of testing deities. So you have no logical way of determining that they do't exist.
Got it.
Same holds true for faries, gnomes, Easter Bunnies, etc.

What if I said there was an invisible fire breathing dragon in my garage?

According to your [il]logic, all of these things should be considered to exist if you can't prove they don't.

(ref: "Dragon on My Garage", Carl Sagan - " http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm&... ;)

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#147761 Jan 9, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You’re too busy playing multiple roles as women.
You are weird dude.
Careful Eagle.

For all you know, I may be God.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#147762 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The term cognitive dissonance is used to describe the feeling of discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs.
I am feeling no discomfort of conflicting beliefs.
There is nothing God can create that He could not lift.
Cognitive Dissonance: The state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, esp. as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

You don't necessarily feel discomfort when you have cognitive dissonance.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#147763 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
Careful Eagle.
For all you know, I may be God.
You don't want to take on that kind of liability.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#147764 Jan 9, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Careful Eagle.
For all you know, I may be God.
I have nothing against you Catcher with the exception you weird out this site with your role playing as women.

Why do you do that?

If you want to fantasize write a romance novel. At least you could make some money at it.

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