Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 20 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147776 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>The scientific method is not perfect. It depends on who is interpreting the data & how they perceive it.

Personal and cultural beliefs influence both our perceptions and our interpretations of natural phenomena.

Theories that can't be tested - like a particle that is unobservable (or God)- are not scientific theories, they are speculation and conjecture.

[QUOTE] Anything that CAN be interpreted to support your beliefs, probably WILL be interpreted to support your beliefs. Faith is probably the least rigorous way of knowing anything. As a methodology, it isn't internally or externally consistent. It's performance is similar to guessing. It's been demonstrated to be dangerous, while only offering benefits equal to the placebo effect. "

I've had much more than a placebo effect because of my faith.

Anything that CAN be interpreted or supported by my beliefs probably will NOT support my beliefs.

Due to scientific advancements, I've had to re-think everything I was taught. Yes, I kept it in the back of my mind that this is all God's will. But that doesn't mean I don't look at things objectively.

[QUOTE] Technological advancements have allowed humans to get the same things accomplished with less risk. We strive to make things more efficient and safer. Faith and religion are already seen by skeptics as outdated, dangerous, and unnecessary. Sooner or later, everyone will know it. I just hope it happens before the Rapture."

Of course religion seems outdated to a skeptic. Why wouldn't it?

But to most of the world, faith & religion is in the forefront of their being.

You have to accept that.
We do accept that.

You, and your fellow believers, need to accept that when you try to inject your beliefs into OUR lives via public school education, legislation and politics, we're going to stand up and say "HELL NO!"

If they don't like abortion, don't get one. If they don't like birth control, don't use it. Of they don't like sex education, don't give or get any. If they don't like gay marriage, don't marry somebody of the same sex.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#147778 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The scientific method is not perfect. It depends on who is interpreting the data & how they perceive it.
Can you recommend any improvements to the scientific method? I can't. If the scientific method isn't perfect, it's not because of how it's used. If you want to correct scientists, you'll need to be at least as well trained as they are. If you are saying that scientists need to be better trained, I might agree to that. But how would that be a critique against the scientific method?

Do you think scientists should rely more on faith?

If your point is that science on the whole is not perfect, I agree, and ask you what you propose that is better? I've never seen anything come close to the success of science. Religion hasn't overcome its disasters yet. I have to give it a negative score. We'll check again in a thousand years.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Personal and cultural beliefs influence both our perceptions and our interpretations of natural phenomena.
Theories that can't be tested - like a particle that is unobservable (or God)- are not scientific theories, they are speculation and conjecture.
Okay. Good to see you are learning.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I've had much more than a placebo effect because of my faith.
Faith + religion gives you a lot more benefits than just faith alone.

What I mean is, holding faith can have measurable benefits similar to the placebo effect. Biologically, I don't know that there's a difference.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Anything that CAN be interpreted or supported by my beliefs probably will NOT support my beliefs.
Have you ever thought that God helped you with anything in your life? I'm not talking about crediting your belief as a source of strength. Do you believe God ever changed something to help you?

I'm not really sure what kind of God you believe in. Some believe in a God that does stuff, while others believe in a God that doesn't. I'm still just talking about the god you named God, of Bible fame. Some people believe in other gods and believe those gods caused hurricanes or cured their cancer. Believers tend to fill gaps in knowledge with their gods, because they can.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Due to scientific advancements, I've had to re-think everything I was taught. Yes, I kept it in the back of my mind that this is all God's will. But that doesn't mean I don't look at things objectively.
That is exactly what it means, that you DON'T look at things objectively. You look at them through your indoctrinated eyes. I don't see most things objectively either, but when I know that's happening, I can ration my commitment to belief in those things. This is what a rational skeptic does.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Of course religion seems outdated to a skeptic. Why wouldn't it?
But to most of the world, faith & religion is in the forefront of their being.
You have to accept that.
I don't deny it. I understand it very well.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147779 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
He'd have been fine hashes stuck to astrology. But even there, Sagan was an arrogant, humans-are-the-one-all-be-all ass.
"We are the way for the cosmos to know itself."
WTF is that if not arrogant presumption?
Well can you demonstrably show us that determination is wrong?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147780 Jan 9, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
We do accept that.
You, and your fellow believers, need to accept that when you try to inject your beliefs into OUR lives via public school education, legislation and politics, we're going to stand up and say "HELL NO!"
If they don't like abortion, don't get one. If they don't like birth control, don't use it. Of they don't like sex education, don't give or get any. If they don't like gay marriage, don't marry somebody of the same sex.
Aero, this may very well be the first time I 100% agree with you.

Keep in mind when posting to me that I am not a creationist or "fundie".

I support pro-choice. I support free will & freedom of religion. I support sex ed for kids (in fact I've been teaching my kids since they were like 5). I don't support gay marriage, but that's ok. I won't get one :)

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147781 Jan 9, 2013
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you recommend any improvements to the scientific method? I can't. If the scientific method isn't perfect, it's not because of how it's used. If you want to correct scientists, you'll need to be at least as well trained as they are. If you are saying that scientists need to be better trained, I might agree to that. But how would that be a critique against the scientific method?
Do you think scientists should rely more on faith?
If your point is that science on the whole is not perfect, I agree, and ask you what you propose that is better? I've never seen anything come close to the success of science. Religion hasn't overcome its disasters yet. I have to give it a negative score. We'll check again in a thousand years.
<quoted text>
Okay. Good to see you are learning.
<quoted text>
Faith + religion gives you a lot more benefits than just faith alone.
What I mean is, holding faith can have measurable benefits similar to the placebo effect. Biologically, I don't know that there's a difference.
<quoted text>
Have you ever thought that God helped you with anything in your life? I'm not talking about crediting your belief as a source of strength. Do you believe God ever changed something to help you?
I'm not really sure what kind of God you believe in. Some believe in a God that does stuff, while others believe in a God that doesn't. I'm still just talking about the god you named God, of Bible fame. Some people believe in other gods and believe those gods caused hurricanes or cured their cancer. Believers tend to fill gaps in knowledge with their gods, because they can.
<quoted text>
That is exactly what it means, that you DON'T look at things objectively. You look at them through your indoctrinated eyes. I don't see most things objectively either, but when I know that's happening, I can ration my commitment to belief in those things. This is what a rational skeptic does.
<quoted text>
I don't deny it. I understand it very well.
hehehe.....

You said "science on the hole"......

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#147782 Jan 9, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Well can you demonstrably show us that determination is wrong?
Lanza was determined to murder...

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#147783 Jan 9, 2013
hmmm
KJV

United States

#147784 Jan 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Where? You keep making these assertions but never provide any actual evidence, just assertions claiming that the bible is true "just because."

Oh, and there is no court of law that allows stoning of children or non-believers, your bible commands that. Don't bother screaming "context" either, if there is any context you can justify stoning children or those who just disagree with you, you're a monster.
You show off your complete ignorance
Once again. Thanks for show us all your very limited knowledge of Christianity.

"you're a monster" Unbelievable! Even for you this pretty bad it is more like Septic style.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#147785 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
hehehe.....
You said "science on the hole"......
I was golfing one time with a buddy. We were on a pretty easy par 3. I hit first, then him. I made it down to the green to my ball. My buddy was still walking around. I noticed he kept scratching his nuts. I asked him, "What's up with your ball?"

"I think I got a hole in one."

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#147786 Jan 9, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You show off your complete ignorance
Once again. Thanks for show us all your very limited knowledge of Christianity.
"you're a monster" Unbelievable! Even for you this pretty bad it is more like Septic style.
Haven't you read the bible? Even jesus said, not one dot shall be taken from the law and anyone who teaches otherwise is in big trouble.
KJV

United States

#147787 Jan 9, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Source, please?
http://www.libraryonline.com/default.asp...
KJV

United States

#147788 Jan 9, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>No, the label of "god" is an adjective, not a proper noun. Get over yourself. Your god is no more privileged than the other thousands of gods, because your god has the same amount of evidence as those others.
http://www.libraryonline.com/default.asp...
KJV

United States

#147789 Jan 9, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>Evidence leads to proof. The supernatural has no evidence to support it.
"Evidence leads to proof." Always?

This would be quite a statement if it came from an intelligent source.
Hence it's just ludicrous babble.

"The supernatural has no evidence to support it." Sure about this?

No evidence? Really?
This statement can only be made by an all knowing intellect.

Hint: that ain't you! LOL
KJV

United States

#147791 Jan 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>So why should anyone accept God as anything more than a product of someone's vivid imagination?

All you theists run away from this question for some reason.
You should not accept God as more than a product of someone's vivid imagination?

Ok? Sound good?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#147792 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The scientific method is not perfect. It depends on who is interpreting the data & how they perceive it.
And the debate between different people looking at the data in different ways leads to further testable predictions that help to resolve the dispute. THAT is how science works.
Personal and cultural beliefs influence both our perceptions and our interpretations of natural phenomena.
Which is why it is good to have people with very different backgrounds doing the science. The cultural beliefs of someone in Japan are quite different than the cultural beliefs of someone in the US, but the science is the same. When there are disputes, the mediation is done by more observation and testing.
Theories that can't be tested - like a particle that is unobservable (or God)- are not scientific theories, they are speculation and conjecture.
Agrees. Testability is the essence of science. Forturnaltely, both the Big bang and evolution have been tested in many different ways and have passed the tests.
Of course religion seems outdated to a skeptic. Why wouldn't it?
But to most of the world, faith & religion is in the forefront of their being.
You have to accept that.
Why? Why not work to change that sad state of affairs? Why 'accept' ignorance and superstition?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#147793 Jan 9, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
He'd have been fine hashes stuck to astrology. But even there, Sagan was an arrogant, humans-are-the-one-all-be-all ass.
"We are the way for the cosmos to know itself."
WTF is that if not arrogant presumption?
Please learn the difference between astrology and astronomy. Sagan was an astronomer, not an astrologer.
KJV

United States

#147800 Jan 9, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>Mine just went burp and fell to bits when I read KJV post
Why is it that atheist can't seem to dream up a stronger irony meter?

They always are busting or falling a part. Kind of a weak imagination.
KJV

United States

#147801 Jan 9, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>Mine just went burp and fell to bits when I read KJV post
irony meter

A mythical device often mentioned on Internet discussion fora, the irony meter is a device for measuring unintentional irony. It is best known for breaking or exploding when the irony becomes too strong.

You need to do better. These things are junk. Like a flash bulb used once and done. And there is no recording method to record peak irony.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#147802 Jan 9, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Please learn the difference between astrology and astronomy. Sagan was an astronomer, not an astrologer.
Hey Poly. I think he meant that as an insult.

“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#147803 Jan 9, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
irony meter
A mythical device often mentioned on Internet discussion fora, the irony meter is a device for measuring unintentional irony. It is best known for breaking or exploding when the irony becomes too strong.
You need to do better. These things are junk. Like a flash bulb used once and done. And there is no recording method to record peak irony.
Umm...wrong :

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DBYr_Z1hfg/TzQEMQo...

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