Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 239191 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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KJV

United States

#147634 Jan 8, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>It was the Sausage Monster that made him say it, don't blame him for it, we shall ask the holy noodles to bless him for his blasphemy.
These holy noodles are they the same ones used in spaghettio's.
KJV

United States

#147635 Jan 8, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>You do a really good job covering the issue of gun control. Perhaps you should stick with it and let go of this other. At least with gun control you bring in valid points to the argument. With Atheism you just don’t have much to say other than a few off the shelf remarks.

I’m not trying to insult you here. I’m just pointing out your much stronger in one area than the other. I was raised up with guns. But I have gotten rid of all my guns except one.

My Son in Houston has been the opposite of myself. He is a gun loving fool. He is also a sportsman that loves to hunt and fish. Shooting is a serious hobby with some folks.

In my younger days for stress relief I would take my 357 to a indoor shooting range. There’s nothing like shooting a 357 indoors. The dust at the top of the ceiling would let go and fall. You could feel the energy hit you in the face when the hammer came down.

Hopefully our country can come to grips with some reasonable gun control that keeps guns out of the hands of the crazies.
Nicely put.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#147636 Jan 8, 2013
Eagle12 wrote:
A starving man will go look for food.
A lazy man will ask you to go look for food and bring it too him.
Theres no lack of evidence in proving theres a God.
Theres a lack of effort.
Theres no lack of evidence in proving theres a Zeus.
Theres a lack of effort.
KJV

United States

#147637 Jan 8, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Excuses. The starving man is actually missing something. We are not, we are just not buying what you're selling without you providing evidence to support it.
Some evidence has been presented to you. Not all by no means. But some good stuff and your choice was to disregard it. That's your call, it effects only you. But with your rejection of the evidence you should stop asking for proof. You just look silly.
KJV

United States

#147638 Jan 8, 2013
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>The bible says god isn't omniscient.
Which god are you talking about?

The God of the Bible is alway capitalized. So you must be talking of something I cannot help you with.
KJV

United States

#147639 Jan 8, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Since you are inherently siding with the majority it is safe to assume that you don't care about being correct at all.
Nope
KJV

United States

#147640 Jan 8, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>Let me get this straight; you refuse to repeat yourself; but you have repeated yourself 3 or 4 times? OK.

Next, you have some proof that your god exist, but you are refusing to share it? How does your god feel about that?

I know, there is a bible verse for every situation! Whether you need a for or an against on any subject, the bible has a verse for it.
First: the evidence has been presented enough time. "It don't take me too long to look at a horse shoe. "

Second: evidence is not proof, I did not say I had proof.
KJV

United States

#147641 Jan 8, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>So he's not omnipotent.
If you wish.
KJV

United States

#147642 Jan 8, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>So far you have not presented any evidence. So presenting evidence would be a first, not a repetition.
This is a lie. I have, along with others presented evidence. As I said you simply dismissed it.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#147643 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Which god are you talking about?
The God of the Bible is alway capitalized. So you must be talking of something I cannot help you with.
The god of the bible is not omniscient.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147644 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Which god are you talking about?
The God of the Bible is alway capitalized. So you must be talking of something I cannot help you with.
Actually, to specify a god of the Bible, you would use Adonai, Jehovah, Elohim, El-Shaddai, etc.

"God" is a generic term that Christians have tried to steal and claim as their own by capitalizing it. Seems stealing is a defining characteristic of the Abrahamic religions.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#147645 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Some evidence has been presented to you. Not all by no means. But some good stuff and your choice was to disregard it. That's your call, it effects only you. But with your rejection of the evidence you should stop asking for proof. You just look silly.
The Bible cannot be used as proof of the validity of the Bible.

Hearsay is not evidence.

Anecdotal stories are not evidence.

Goad of the gaps does not equal evidence.

Anthropomorphism does not equal evidence.

Anthropic philosophical arguments do not equal evidence.

Evidence is observable, measurable, independently verifiable, and testable.

Thus far you have presented absolutely NO evidence.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#147646 Jan 8, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I looked it up and read one of the treatises explaining it. It seems to be more of a philosophical mish-mash than anything actually useful. There were some things that I consider to be laughably wrong and a few things that I thought were correct. I'm willing to wait and see if anything useful comes out of it. I doubt it will.
Very interesting life story Chris has.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#147647 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Some evidence has been presented to you. Not all by no means. But some good stuff and your choice was to disregard it. That's your call, it effects only you. But with your rejection of the evidence you should stop asking for proof. You just look silly.
No, all I have seen are assertions, no evidence at all.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#147648 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a lie. I have, along with others presented evidence. As I said you simply dismissed it.
No, you present assertions, the assertions are dismissed because you present no evidence to support them.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#147649 Jan 8, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible cannot be used as proof of the validity of the Bible.
Hearsay is not evidence.
Anecdotal stories are not evidence.
Goad of the gaps does not equal evidence.
Anthropomorphism does not equal evidence.
Anthropic philosophical arguments do not equal evidence.
Evidence is observable, measurable, independently verifiable, and testable.
Thus far you have presented absolutely NO evidence.
bUt Why can't i be proof of my own Power?
I paid tax on it lol
Thinking

Leighton Buzzard, UK

#147650 Jan 8, 2013
Why?
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Which god are you talking about?
The God of the Bible is alway capitalized. So you must be talking of something I cannot help you with.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#147651 Jan 8, 2013
KJV:

A 2012 estimate is not likely to be based on 2012 data. It could be based on data that is more than a decade old with some rationale for adjusting it. We simply do not know, and that is exactly the point. If you look at the various encyclopedia entries that you referenced, you will find that they, in turn, reference other sources. You have to follow the trail to the original study before you can evaluate the data itself.

In order to evaluate a study's accuracy, you have to look at how and when the data was collected and analyzed. That information is called metadata, i.e., data about the data. Unless you look at that, you can't know whether you are citing valid statistics, shoddy work, or outright fabrications. Most government statistical departments include metadata in all of their published works, but the CIA does not. Pew and ARIS are just as open about their methods. When two sources show very different results, the metadata usually shows why. When the metadata is absent, preference has to be given to the better documented study.

Beyond the accuracy of the statistics, using them to advance an ad populum argument will not play for anyone who is familiar with the basic principles of logic. When assessing ideas, it is foolish to see what the majority of people believe and go with that. Ideas the come to be widely accepted are often accepted by tiny minorities at their inception. We all agree, for instance, that slavery was an outrageous injustice, but it was accepted as normal for most of human history. Racial segregation and discrimination was the rule of the day until after the middle of the last century. Women's roles in society were commonly accepted as secondary until about the same time, and the struggle for women's suffrage required decades before the nineteenth amendment finally gave all American women equal voting rights.

Majorities can be wrong. Communities decide on action by voting, but only on the ship of fools is truth put to a vote.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#147653 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
That may in fact be true. However who's place is it to tell parents they cannot teach their children what they believe to be true and can save them from eternal damnation. And why do so many atheist children leave atheism to become a theist?
"Posted earlier by derek4
Study: Atheists Have Lowest 'Retention Rate' Compared to Religious Groups
Only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults. This "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.
There were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey. Four-hundred thirty-two weighted respondents said they were raised atheist. Of those, 131 self-identified as atheist.
Continued:
Gray also noted that, "of those raised as atheists, 30% are now affiliated with a Protestant denomination, 10% are Catholic, 2% are Jewish, 1% are Mormon, and 1% are Pagan."
Jehovah's Witness, congregationalist and holiness churches had the next lowest retention rates at 37 percent, 37 percent and 32 percent, respectively. Thirty-eight percent of those who grew up with no particular religious faith or belief system remained that way.
Hindus had the highest retention rate at 84 percent, followed by Jews (76 percent), Muslims (76 percent), Greek Orthodox (73 percent), Mormons (70 percent) and Catholics (68 percent).
Baptists had the highest retention rate of the Protestant Christian categories at 60 percent, followed by Lutheran (59 percent) and Pentecostal (50 percent).
http://www.christianpost.com/news/study-athei...
[Right; NO thinking people don't want to be atheists.]
From: Deseret News / Salt Lake City, UT
July, 2012
“Atheists abandon their beliefs more often than people in other religious groups, study finds”
A new study has found that people raised in an atheist home abandon those beliefs as adults more often than people raised with other religious belief systems, putting atheism at a 30 percent retention rate. Conclusions and interpretations of the study are that atheists are more often "made" as adults rather than "raised." The highest retention rates are in the Hindu faith, which holds onto about 84 percent of adherents.
Those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by Georgetown University's Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA).
Only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults. This "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.
There were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey. Four-hundred thirty-two weighted respondents said they were raised atheist. Of those, 131 self-identified as atheist."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765589392/...
Here's the really interesting point about the retention data: while the news article says it comes from "a study by Georgetown University's Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA)," ist actually comes from a blog by CARA editor Mark Gray. He displays the data in a graph that show the data coming from at least two sources, one of which is the Pew Forum. CARA appears to do surveys only of the Catholic supbpopulation, relying on other sources for comparative data. Since these other studies are conducted differently, the data from them cannot be compared with defensible validity. Moreover, the subjects for their internal surveys self-select, which invalidates their results as well.

That said, the data they present may be reasonably accurate. Or not--we have no way of knowing for sure. CARA does not show its metadata.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#147654 Jan 8, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope
You have demonstrated as much, especially with the bandwagon fallacy you pulled.

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