Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#147437
Jan 7, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
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It does not matter on the significance of the shooter and I feel it’s rather pathetic of you to consider the status of a murderer as a choice. One would be just as dead if it were some sad lame brain or the president of the USA. I live in a country where there the threat is minimal and there is no need for that fear and I see no need for the “my gun is bigger than you gun, I can p|ss further up the wall that you macho cr/\p” you seem to live for. Just a different way of life.
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Sorry, removing access to all guns would not reduce gun crime, tell me how you figure this out
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If you want, are you saying that that those in Sudan or Somalia who gang together and commit murder are normal, unaffected, everyday individual human beings? However under typical civilised constraints it is very difficult to kill another human close up and personal without training.
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Yes we do but at a reduced murder rate (about ¼) that on the US side of the Atlantic puddle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie...
I would very much like to see you try. Come on, we are waiting…Oh hang on, you were being metaphorical, right?
Yes democracy ever heard of it?
The choice is at election time. There is no need to resist the macho big mouth redneck gung ho gun nut, we are not troubled by them.
So you feel it unwise to prevent the dickheads going on a gun rampage, fine.
What power? The power to shoot school chidden at will, that is a power you are welcome to keep.
Bottom line is we wrote these things into law because of your country. They worked then to defeat you as the oppressor of my country. I find it slightly curious it is now your country that is the biggest supporter of disarming this country.

No I favor a assault weapons and high capacity clips ban , but not any outright bans or national registration.
I also think we need address the issue in schools as well as mental health screening from middle school on up, along with security in the schools.

The reason is simple you will never be able to remove access to all guns Christine , it is guaranteed under the second amendment.
But the fact remain also Christine , while there are les murders with guns over there , per capita violent crime is actually higher over there too.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#147438
Jan 7, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
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No I didn’t forget, It was irrelevant to the topic however it seems that following the demise of the Soviet Union China has taken up the reigns
Yes I sure Hitler thought the same thing, freedom under imposed terms is not freedom
Oh but you want to impose on my freedom just two post ago ?
Hypocrite much?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#147440
Jan 7, 2013
 
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
So the people that love God, that's what happens to their brain too, right? So their love for God is real too, that love also exists. Love is the same whether u love an animal, human or even God. We don't know what love or God is, you're right, we can only express our feelings not prove them.
Actually, there is a lot of activity in the creativity centers of the brain when they are "feeling the spirit" in most situations, others there are clear patterns of delusional and hallucinatory responses. We do know what causes these, the chemicals are easy to see. You attaching something imaginary to it doesn't change what it is, a chemical reaction in the brain.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#147441
Jan 7, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Right! Just like I can't prove God to you.
Yes, but love is caused by physical and easily demonstrated chemical reactions. You god, if it existed, would have some sort of influence on the world, and that would leave evidence.

It's the same as the wind in the desert, we know there is wind even if we never feel it because it leaves "ripples" in the sand.

We know there are oceanic currents without elaborate tests, because those currents move objects on the surface even.

We're asking for evidence, not a photograph, though a photograph would seal the deal, so to speak. But you cannot show any actual influence caused by this god of yours, so it is safe to dismiss it.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#147442
Jan 7, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
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Right....
So everyone that puts on their seat belt is living fear while driving?
No, but the are acknowledging by their actions that they don't really believe some invisible deity is looking out for them.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#147443
Jan 7, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
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I am sure your "tacit approval" gives whatever creative force a warm and fuzzy feeling and will be instrumental in the further development of mankind and the universe itself.
"Belief systems" are just logics based upon observation and experience. If you are a passive learner, like a rock, you sit there and absorb the beliefs of others as truths instead of putting your own mind and soul to work to explain things. You follow the herd.
Follow the herd.

That's funny, coming from a theist.

Since: Aug 11

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#147444
Jan 7, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
It also requires knowledge of the laws that apply to determine which set of circumstances is more likely. And the determination of those laws requires observational evidence to establish them.
To determine a probability, you need to know what the range of possibilities is and how many of those possibilities have the condition under discussion. Without *both* of those, it is impossible to determine a probability.
In the specific case under consideration, we are actually attempting to determine what is known as a conditional probability. Given the fact that the universe around us is as it is, what is the probability that there is a deity?
To determine a conditional probability, you need to know the range of possible universes which look like ours and then determine which of those has a deity and which do not. Clearly, we are nowhere close to even knowing what the range of possible universes is (is it even possible for the universe to be different---what does that even mean?). And we have no basis to determine which universes that look like our have or do not have deities that got them going.
So there is simply no way to even get started calculating a probability of there being a deity.
But, what we *do* know is that none of the scientific theories that agree with the evidence we have requires a deity to explain the universe around us. That alone suggests the probability of a deity is small.
It always gets back to the origin of life and at that point everyones on equal footings.

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#147445
Jan 7, 2013
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Please talk to your doctor about Haldol.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX= unworthy of response.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#147446
Jan 7, 2013
 
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text> It always gets back to the origin of life and at that point everyones on equal footings.
Invisible sky daddy's done it isn't even a footing.
It's a brain disorder.

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#147447
Jan 7, 2013
 
ChristineM wrote:
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What is delusional about understanding that ANYONE, whether they are armed or not can have a breakdown?
What is delusional about the fact that someone with access to a gun is FAR more likely to shoot a person or persons than someone without access to a gun?
Rights? Are you talking about the “unalienable” rights of Americans that just happen to have been amended?
Rights? Are you talking about why Americans are not subject to the International Declaration of Human Rights?
The US is the only country in the world other than the collapsed state of Somalia that has not ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
The US is the only 1st world country and one of only a handful of countries that have not ratified the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women.
The US has not ratified the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
The US has not ratified it’s own American Convention on Human Rights.
The US provision for human rights is abysmal but if you think that packing a gun makes if for that defect well, you live there…
FYI, The government in the UK is democratically elected by public vote.
FYI, You can legally own a firearm in the UK.
http://www.met.police.uk/firearms_licensing/f...
Yes I live here and thanks be to God you don't.As to the rest of your post is had ZERO relevance to what I was commenting on.I assure you I don't give a rats ass what you or any other Brit else thinks about the USA.

Since: Aug 11

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#147448
Jan 7, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Silly! It's a divine teapot not one made of clay! It's invisible and beyond our comprehension but it created everything and if you don't believe in it you burn forever in the coffee pot underworld forever roasting in scalding hot decaf!
<quoted text>
Oh so you do believe in a diety.You just call it a teapot. Thanks for clearing that up.

Since: Aug 11

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#147449
Jan 7, 2013
 
Hedonist wrote:
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It is MORE probable that there is no deity based on what "is" known about deities.
Unless you'd care to define the properties of deity to enough level of detail that some sort of evidence can be observed / measured to support such a claim?
Without a clearly defined set of properties any consideration of deities is meaningless and absurd.
I provided evidence against the teapot in orbit. What is known about a diety that makes it less probable than the teapot?

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#147450
Jan 7, 2013
 
Hedonist wrote:
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Which requires a sample size greater than 1 and a set of outcomes to calculate any probabilities. Otherwise you're just making stuff up.
I'll stick with observable and measurable evidence that is independently verifiable and will consider outcomes in direct proportion to the amount of this evidence.
Thus far, there is gathering evidence for the expansion of the universe and no evidence of any magic from an invisible supernatural sky deity.
And what is responsible for the origin of the universe that is expanding? Or the multiverse and so on? Until there is an answer to that question its all just opinion no matter how we justify them.In the end the best answer is we don't know.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#147451
Jan 7, 2013
 
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text> It always gets back to the origin of life and at that point everyones on equal footings.
I'm not sure why you would think this. Those that have studied life and the chemical reactions that are required for it are in a better position to discuss the origins of life than the average person. Even better are those who are trained in both microbiology and organic chemistry, who know the conditions required for the molecules that make up life to form. In particular, there are scientists that have studied biochemistry as well as the chemistry of the early earth and that have performed experiments showing that the basic building blocks of life are easily formed in the environment of the early earth (as well as in space) and that are investigating how those molecules can combine in the ways that lead to life.

The point is that life is a complex collection of chemical reactions and the question of how such a collection of reactions gets started is one for chemistry, in particular organic chemistry. We have a lot to learn yet, that is true, but we are farther towards understanding than we were 50 years ago and progress is being made continually.

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#147452
Jan 7, 2013
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Invisible sky daddy's done it isn't even a footing.
It's a brain disorder.
We are all welcome to our own opinions but you overstep reality when you over state and present your opinion as fact. It is unproveable.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#147453
Jan 7, 2013
 
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text> I provided evidence against the teapot in orbit. What is known about a diety that makes it less probable than the teapot?
Actually, no you have not.

Nothing is known about a deity, that's your problem.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#147454
Jan 7, 2013
 
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text>
And what is responsible for the origin of the universe that is expanding?
We do not know. We do not even know if the question makes any sense (time being required for causality and time also possibly beginning at the Big Bang).
Or the multiverse and so on?
At this point, it looks like the multi-verse, if it exists, is eternal: it exists whenever there is time.
Until there is an answer to that question its all just opinion no matter how we justify them.In the end the best answer is we don't know.
But the way to find out is not to simply throw up our hands and give up. Instead, we need to obtain deeper understanding of how the universe works, what the laws governing the universe (or multi-verse) are and what that means for the question of origins. At the very least, we will need a testable theory of quantum gravity. Unfortunately, we don't have such.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#147455
Jan 7, 2013
 
Freebird USA wrote:
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We are all welcome to our own opinions but you overstep reality when you over state and present your opinion as fact. It is unproveable.
I overstep reality when I say it isn't really possible a human looking god existed billions of years before humans?
What would you base the idea that a being that looked just like us existed billions of years before humans did?
Yes and now explain why it would wait billions of years to create us.
while creating a system of life that would take half a billion years to evolve into us. Wait the right amount of time for us to evolve naturally, and then create us. You see it doesn't make sense does it?

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#147456
Jan 7, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure why you would think this. Those that have studied life and the chemical reactions that are required for it are in a better position to discuss the origins of life than the average person. Even better are those who are trained in both microbiology and organic chemistry, who know the conditions required for the molecules that make up life to form. In particular, there are scientists that have studied biochemistry as well as the chemistry of the early earth and that have performed experiments showing that the basic building blocks of life are easily formed in the environment of the early earth (as well as in space) and that are investigating how those molecules can combine in the ways that lead to life.
The point is that life is a complex collection of chemical reactions and the question of how such a collection of reactions gets started is one for chemistry, in particular organic chemistry. We have a lot to learn yet, that is true, but we are farther towards understanding than we were 50 years ago and progress is being made continually.
Needless to say I am not biologist nor a chemist. However that being said because we know more about life now than we did before still doesn't explain the initial origin.Where did the molecules that combine to make life originate? It seems as if theres alot of backtracking to be done before that question can be answered. If indeed it ever can be answered. The idea of something eternal seperate and apart from what we consider nature seems perfectly feasible to me.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#147457
Jan 7, 2013
 
Freebird USA wrote:
<quoted text> ...Where did the molecules that combine to make life originate?...
We know that, dying stars.

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