Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146261 Jan 1, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not the American way, douche.
I don't care, and even if I did, you've yet to even define what this "American way" is.

America has a legal system which is set up to be able to change if necessary. This is why owning a slave is no longer legal. This is why you can no longer teach pseudo-science in public schools. Et cetera, et cetera.

Once again - so far, the only arguments I've heard you use that aren't ad hominem or downright foolish is "Guns can be used in sports," and "That's not the American way!"

How is that even an argument?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#146262 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't matter what some people use things for. I use my Bible to prop up a TV stand - does that mean the intended purpose for printing Bibles is that? No, it does not.
Guns are MADE to be used as weapons. If your argument boils down to, "Guns can be used for sports, too!" your logic is entirely flawed.
You say guns are intended to kill. Period.

The statement makes too broad of an assumption. It implies that this is the most important reason why guns exist in our society.

Guns can be used as tools to make sounds (like in a race), to shoot at paper for entertainment and to hunt.

You cannot make the broad statement that guns are designed to kill and maintain logical integrity.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#146263 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't matter, they're still weapons.
weap·on
Noun
A thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage.
A means of gaining an advantage or defending oneself in a conflict or contest: "resignation threats are a weapon in his armory".
A gun isn't designed to "inflict bodily harm", though.

The purpose of a gun is to accelerate a projectile from zero velocity with respect to the gun to a certain velocity in a controllable vector.

A gun is a tool. How its used is not its definition.

One could argue that guns are intended to start a horse race.......

“God of War”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#146264 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wouldn't. An ideal set of gun control laws, in my opinion, would be similar to those of Australia - where you can only obtain a gun if you have a good reason to own one and can prove that you have a good reason to own one.
Again it is tyranny for you to make that decision.
It is not up to others to make justification of a person's right
or reason for owning a gun.

"Shall not be infringed"

I'm for temporary banning of large capacity clips.

Where the problem is you are talking about people who are not intent on breaking the law who will be affected.
Those who do intend on breaking the law , nothing will stop them. Those are the ones who will find a way to do it despite gun laws.

The Brady bill did absolutely nothing to cure the problem.

The problem is with the people not the gun.
The only solution to counter the killing is to meet the killer on equal ground.

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146265 Jan 1, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You say guns are intended to kill. Period.
The statement makes too broad of an assumption. It implies that this is the most important reason why guns exist in our society.
Guns can be used as tools to make sounds (like in a race), to shoot at paper for entertainment and to hunt.
You cannot make the broad statement that guns are designed to kill and maintain logical integrity.
When looking at the purpose of something, you do not look at the reason why people buy it, you look at how and why it is MADE.

Guns are made to be used as weapons.

By the logic you use, I should be allowed to buy grenades because I want to use them to go fishing.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#146266 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care, and even if I did, you've yet to even define what this "American way" is.
America has a legal system which is set up to be able to change if necessary. This is why owning a slave is no longer legal. This is why you can no longer teach pseudo-science in public schools. Et cetera, et cetera.
Once again - so far, the only arguments I've heard you use that aren't ad hominem or downright foolish is "Guns can be used in sports," and "That's not the American way!"
How is that even an argument?
Are you American?

If so, it's pretty sad that you don't know what the American way is.

Guns are not designed to kill. Period.

It's my American right to own a gun and you can't stop it.

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146267 Jan 1, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Again it is tyranny for you to make that decision.
It is not up to others to make justification of a person's right
or reason for owning a gun.
"Shall not be infringed"
I'm for temporary banning of large capacity clips.
Where the problem is you are talking about people who are not intent on breaking the law who will be affected.
Those who do intend on breaking the law , nothing will stop them. Those are the ones who will find a way to do it despite gun laws.
The Brady bill did absolutely nothing to cure the problem.
The problem is with the people not the gun.
The only solution to counter the killing is to meet the killer on equal ground.
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/12/6/...

"Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides. Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides."

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#146268 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you tell me what my logic can decide when you and your nutjob friends don't even understand my logic?
No, TNT should not be open to purchase to anyone because TNT's intended use is not something that any average Joe is going to need to use it for.
Just like guns. You want to use guns for competition? Fine. But how about we ban it outside of that - where the only other perceivable use is as a weapon.
BS, we all have stumps or rocks to move, unless you live in the city, of course.

But you missed the point, according to your logic, it should be legal to purchase, because it's original intent was for moving stumps and boulders.

Be like the fundie! Make up the rules as you go!

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146269 Jan 1, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
A gun isn't designed to "inflict bodily harm", though.
The purpose of a gun is to accelerate a projectile from zero velocity with respect to the gun to a certain velocity in a controllable vector.
A gun is a tool. How its used is not its definition.
One could argue that guns are intended to start a horse race.......
Let's look at what the OED has to say about guns.

Definition of gun
noun
a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.

Note how OED - the voted BEST dictionary - disagrees with you.

However - seeing as definitions can vary, I'd like to point out that you keep saying that guns can be used as tools, but WEAPONS ARE TOOLS. Tools that are meant to cause harm.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#146270 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
When looking at the purpose of something, you do not look at the reason why people buy it, you look at how and why it is MADE.
Guns are made to be used as weapons.
By the logic you use, I should be allowed to buy grenades because I want to use them to go fishing.
None of my guns are meant to kill. They serve the purpose of entertainment and sport and to protect my family and if I had to protect my family my objectives would be 1. to stop the bad guy and 2 try not to kill him.

In fact, such a large fraction of guns in our society are meant for entertainment and other functions than killing that to describe guns in general as being meant to kill is irrational.

That would be like saying the only purpose of the motorcycle is to jump ramps or the only purpose of the car is to ram things.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#146271 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, and for 200 years, owning a firearm was not a right. The 2nd amendment is speaking about the military, not average people.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
People who say the 2nd amendment is "Right to bear arms" obviously have not read it.
I trust that you are well educated in constitutional law! Since so many experts disagree with you, I can only assume that you are better educated than they are.

I wonder why there is a comma here? "State, the" Maybe you can explain?

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#146272 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wouldn't. An ideal set of gun control laws, in my opinion, would be similar to those of Australia - where you can only obtain a gun if you have a good reason to own one and can prove that you have a good reason to own one.
I do! The 2nd Amendment!

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146273 Jan 1, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you American?
If so, it's pretty sad that you don't know what the American way is.
Guns are not designed to kill. Period.
It's my American right to own a gun and you can't stop it.
Still haven't told me what the American way is.

I assume you're speaking about the Constitution?

Well, for 200 years owning a gun was NOT a right, because the second amendment is very obviously talking about the military's right to own a gun.

Also, you're right. Guns aren't just designed to kill - they're designed to harm.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#146274 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's look at what the OED has to say about guns.
Definition of gun
noun
a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
Note how OED - the voted BEST dictionary - disagrees with you.
However - seeing as definitions can vary, I'd like to point out that you keep saying that guns can be used as tools, but WEAPONS ARE TOOLS. Tools that are meant to cause harm.
Let's search to only the definitions that support our cause and ignore all the rest! Just like a fundie.

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146275 Jan 1, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
None of my guns are meant to kill. They serve the purpose of entertainment and sport and to protect my family and if I had to protect my family my objectives would be 1. to stop the bad guy and 2 try not to kill him.
In fact, such a large fraction of guns in our society are meant for entertainment and other functions than killing that to describe guns in general as being meant to kill is irrational.
That would be like saying the only purpose of the motorcycle is to jump ramps or the only purpose of the car is to ram things.
Once again - your argument is flawed. Something's intent is not defined by how people use it (as I said - many people use books to prop things up. Doesn't mean books are made to do that, does it?). It is defined what the people who make it make it to do. Guns are made to harm.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#146276 Jan 1, 2013
The pupose of a gun is to propel a projectile.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#146277 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's look at what the OED has to say about guns.
Definition of gun
noun
a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
Note how OED - the voted BEST dictionary - disagrees with you.
However - seeing as definitions can vary, I'd like to point out that you keep saying that guns can be used as tools, but WEAPONS ARE TOOLS. Tools that are meant to cause harm.
Who voted them the " best dictionary"? You?

Merriam-Webster would disagree with you....

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gun

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#146278 Jan 1, 2013
WesTheDuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again - your argument is flawed. Something's intent is not defined by how people use it (as I said - many people use books to prop things up. Doesn't mean books are made to do that, does it?). It is defined what the people who make it make it to do. Guns are made to harm.
Once again, your logic fails. TNT was not intended for killing.
LorenEberly

Sunbury, OH

#146279 Jan 1, 2013
Agreement to Avoid Fiscal Cliff:
The majority of US the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; Successfully reelected Obnoxious President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.
That defies USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.
Demanding every Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every American Citizen, worker, consumer, and taxpayers wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.
This enables every American Citizen, worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With same percentage of their wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.
And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.
President and Elected Officials holding Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.
To fund Illegal drug users and Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.
And pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.
Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.
Created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt and demands America’s grandchildren’s children pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.
Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands is bankrupting USA. Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE. And put Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children on fiscal cliff.
America’s grandchildren’s children cannot afford life and pay this debt with the $7.25 per hour Government mandated labor wage in a hundred million years.

“I am but a humble duck.”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#146280 Jan 1, 2013
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, your logic fails. TNT was not intended for killing.
Nor was it intended for use by common civilians.

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