Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 238468 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#143319 Dec 13, 2012
Yes Christians have stood in the way of science for centuries.

My analogy was spot on you just didn't like it. Werewolves vs Jesus? Never checked on werewolves go ahead go nuts half wit. Now Jesus vs Hercules? Jesus loses hands down for historical proof.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Are Christians trying to stop science for any reason?
Your analogy is flawed - as usual.
To you, I'd assume that Jesus is as fake as werewolves. Why then aren't you out there getting an anit-werewolf propaganda machine going?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#143320 Dec 13, 2012
Same here and she refers to herself as a dedicated Christian.
Thinking wrote:
Easy as. I'm married to a catholic christian.
<quoted text>

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#143321 Dec 13, 2012
Still humiliating yourself riverside retard? Christians believe in Jesus, Catholics believe in Jesus. You say Catholics are not Christians so you are indeed saying Catholics do not believe on Jesus no matter how much you stomp your feet and scream.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again (you f_ckin retard), I've never said that Catholics don't believe in Jesus.
I said they worship very differently than Christians.
What the f_ck is wrong with you?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143322 Dec 13, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Easy as. I'm married to a catholic christian.
<quoted text>
Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity?

Answer: Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are divergent religions. They are built on different foundations, and they propose different ways of salvation.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143323 Dec 13, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok.
If that's the case, then there's no such thing as a theist.
Or a Christian.
Again...thank you.
I love it when you do my work FOR me.
Holy shit!

Aero just typed more than 5 words!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143324 Dec 13, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Still humiliating yourself riverside retard? Christians believe in Jesus, Catholics believe in Jesus. You say Catholics are not Christians so you are indeed saying Catholics do not believe on Jesus no matter how much you stomp your feet and scream.
<quoted text>
Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity?

Answer: Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are divergent religions. They are built on different foundations, and they propose different ways of salvation.

In principle, Christianity is built solely on the Holy Scriptures, the written Word of God.

Roman Catholicism demands submission of the intellect and will to the doctrines taught by the Roman magisterium (the Pope and bishops).

As expected, since the foundations are different, so also are the edifices built upon them. Christianity stands on the Gospel of God's sovereign grace. In love, God predestines His chosen ones to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ, their sole mediator. The Son became man and gave His life as a ransom to secure their freedom from sin. Being dead in sin, they are completely unable to convert ourselves or merit God's favour. Therefore God graciously grants His people repentance and faith to turn to Him and trust in Christ Jesus for salvation. Believers are accepted in Christ, solely on the merit of His righteousness and blood, and not because of any goodness or human merit. God also resides in His people by the Holy Spirit, enabling them to obey and glorify the Father, and to guarantee their inheritance in heaven forever.

Rome's "gospel" is not good news at all. The Roman institution, calling itself "The Church", usurps Christ's mediatorial office, proclaiming herself as the "sacrament of salvation." The "Church" dispenses salvation to her faithful in small portions, starting at baptism and continuing throughout life. Forgiveness can only be obtained through the sacrament of penance. The benefits of Christ's sacrifice are accessible through the sacrifice of the Mass. Instead of teaching the faithful to rest in Christ by faith, Catholics are taught to perform religious works to "merit grace" and to do penance to make satisfaction. Even after death, Catholics remains dependent on the "Church" to relieve their suffering in Purgatory by masses and indulgences.

Very, very different religions.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#143326 Dec 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Holy shit!

Aero just typed more than 5 words!
That your best shot?

Not surprising.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#143327 Dec 13, 2012
Don't care. Nothing worth fighting over.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Biblical Christianity?
Answer: Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are divergent religions. They are built on different foundations, and they propose different ways of salvation.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143328 Dec 13, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
That your best shot?
Not surprising.
It's hard to knock down trolls like you.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143329 Dec 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
As one of those people who has gone door to door talking to people about religion, I want to let you know I wasn't trying to force my belief on any one.
I have found a faith that brings incredible happiness to my family and me, and so I want to share that happiness with others.
Well, good for you!:-)

What you have to understand is that other people have found happiness from other beliefs/non-beliefs. We should understand that we all have the freedom to choose our own path.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#143330 Dec 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Not necessary for me to do it.
You're the one claiming that people get happier when they drop religion and "live there lives"....
What do you athitards say?
You made the assertion, the onus is on YOU to prove it, or admit that's just your opinion.
At this point I have mostly anectdotal evidence. In my own case, I became much happier when I stopped pretending to believe (for the sake of my grandparents) and simply stated that I did not. I have discussed this with others who found a new happiness because they didn't have to attempt to divine the desires of some inscrutible deity and they learned to make their own decisions and take responsibility for their own lives. This is incredibly liberating.

I proposed a couple of methods to test this more generally, but you claimed that the inherent bias of self-reporting would invalidate any conclusions. While I disagree, I do see your point on this. But I would also then point out that any self-reporting from the religious side about *their* happiness is inadmissable.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143331 Dec 13, 2012
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>14Dec12.....
.....He is surprised at your 'filty' mouth.
Ps:....and BobLoblah does NOt like it toooooooooo.
Forever and Ever
Bobloblah
What? What did I say that was filthy?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143332 Dec 13, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like hubris.
I think that will earn YOU hell.
That's what they don't get, they think they're perfect.

So your dad was a pilot? was that story true?
Thinking

Andover, UK

#143333 Dec 13, 2012
Nothing, I am sure. bob nob gobbler's repressed.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
What? What did I say that was filthy?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143334 Dec 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Bald is a hair style.
So is buzzed.
Don't be so quick to assume....
How can it be a HAIR style? There's no HAIR! LOL.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#143335 Dec 13, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
There is nothing wrong with faith as long as it is a positive motivator, some people need this. You have said it fulfills something in you . When we talk evidence however , scientifically
to qualify as such the criteria is clear.
Information that is acquired by observation or experimentation,
thus it has to be demonstrable , and repeatable to pass peer review. Sadly this is where evidence of religious nature falls short. So compelling evidence in a scientific manner would have to be verifiable. Hearsay is not evidence , neither are claims from a single source of reference.
This is why your faith is divorced from compelling evidence, as it does not require it. I'm afraid religion is built upon the fallacious and superstitious minds. This does not have to be a bad thing , we all need the gathering for certain unavoidable circumstance life and death brings.
But you will have to understand the nature of religion to truly understand the motivating factors of organized religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =wJfbrd1KyTAXX
As one of those people who went door to door, within the first hour of talking to some one who invited me to talk with them, I always invited them to "experiment" on it. Anyone who has talked to Mormon missionaries for a while knows they are always trying to get you to experiment on what they are saying. The missionary discussions basically go something like this:

Missionary: "There is a God, this is what He has done and this is how you can find out if I'm telling the truth..."

Or for just about anything the missionary says...

Missionary: "Doing ..... will make you happier because you are living as God would have you live. Try it and see if you are happier."

When people see how much happier they are living the gospel, they want to do more and join the church. Conversion is based on faith promoting experiences or evidences that the convert collects.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#143336 Dec 13, 2012
What a lot of people don't understand is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is unlike a lot of churches, because we invite people to search for evidence and test what we are saying. Here are a few examples from the Book of Mormon:

Moroni 10:3-5
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

(In other words: read it, think about it, pray about it, and God will tell you if its true)

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#143337 Dec 13, 2012
See also Alma 32 from the Book of Mormon, inviting you to "experiment" on what is taught.

27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

(In other words, try out what you learn from the Book of Mormon and see if it is true by the way you live it and feel about it as you are living it.)

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143338 Dec 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
At this point I have mostly anectdotal evidence. In my own case, I became much happier when I stopped pretending to believe (for the sake of my grandparents) and simply stated that I did not. I have discussed this with others who found a new happiness because they didn't have to attempt to divine the desires of some inscrutible deity and they learned to make their own decisions and take responsibility for their own lives. This is incredibly liberating.
Then I'm happy for you. Some people just can't find their way with God. It happens. As long as what you do doesn't hurt anyone, I'm happy for ya!
I proposed a couple of methods to test this more generally, but you claimed that the inherent bias of self-reporting would invalidate any conclusions. While I disagree, I do see your point on this. But I would also then point out that any self-reporting from the religious side about *their* happiness is inadmissable.
Agreed. I don't know if that kind of statistic can be calculated fairly. Both sides will be biased. Atheists will say they're happier without religion, Christians will say they're happier with religion....

Who's to say?

But like you, all I can go off of is my personal experiences and that of those I've known. What I can tell, those that are irreligious seem more stressed out about the little things like taxes, bills, etc. Or they're worried about the big things like a cheating spouse. Not to say Christian people don't have affairs, they do. But it seems they do it much less often.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#143339 Dec 13, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>That's what they don't get, they think they're perfect.

So your dad was a pilot? was that story true?
No.

It's an old pilot joke.

I'm an old pilot.

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