Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#143145 Dec 12, 2012
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really certain other than possibly as an active means of reinforcing their absolute LACK of belief in anything by physically embodying their blanket disbelief in the passive form of a roadside sign...?
Given the passion I have observed that some atheists have for the lack of existence of a God, I don't think it is a lack of belief. You can't be passionate about nothing.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#143146 Dec 12, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
The belief system which follows the line of thought which indicates that there is no God.
Everyone believes what they believe because they have had certain experiences that lead them to believe that way.(or a lack of certain experiences) An individual's belief that there is no god is supported by a system of interconnected underlying data and thoughts collected by the individual to support that assertion.
Why do theists insist on this stupid straw man caricature of atheism. It really just makes you look lame.

What I erad when you spout this nonsense is -

The belief system which follows the line of thought which indicates that there is no Zeus. Everyone believes what they believe because they have had certain experiences that lead them to believe that way.(or a lack of certain experiences) An individual's belief that there is no Zeus is supported by a system of interconnected underlying data and thoughts collected by the individual to support that assertion.

Or replace "Zeus" with "Shiva", or "Quetzalcoatl" or ...(" www.godchecker.com ")

One god is just as proven as the next -- absolutely no evidence of any.

If you EVER produce ANY evidence that your particular deity is the right one AND all the others are NOT, I'll consider it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143147 Dec 12, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
How about the belief system that requires evidence before belief and simply doesn't ind any solid evidence for any deity?
Sure, that's a belief system.
In the case of the ad, there is the belief that those who give up religious superstition will end up being happier people.
An unsubstantiated claim.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143148 Dec 12, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Say what? Just because you claim it now does not mean it is not older than your mythical beliefs. Why are you so ignorant to consider that winter solstice celebration was a christian idea
Fact – winter solstice was (and still is) a pre christian belief, and was practised throughout the known (and then unknown) world
Fact - Yule was a north European custom.
Fact - Saturnalia was a Roman custom
Christianity took the traditions using the ploy, join our club and you won’t need to give up you winter celebration. Without those tactics the “new” religion would have gone the same way as hundreds of others such ideas.
The same applies to Easter, taken from the spring right to the god Eostre, hell they could not even be bothered changing the name much
As I have said before JC did not exists as the person depicted in your babble and the fact that celebrations in his name are pre-existing rites must really stick in you gullet
And what has steak got to do with the price of fish? All species have been eating since evolution first began. Or are you trying to claim food as a christian traditions now?
By the way, have you seen the results of the UK census, released yesterday – christianity down 18% in 10 years, won’t be long now eh?
Fact - I've never said that the way we celebrate Christmas now is the way it's always been.

Who cares about the UK....?

“Live Good, & Feel Good.”

Since: Aug 09

Atl.

#143149 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The belief that you're right.
The belief that the bible is all lies.
The belief that religious people are stupid.
The belief that life created itself.
The belief that prayer is all in your mind.
The belief that Jesus never existed.
The belief that Moses never existed.
The belief that Paul never existed.
The belief that God isn't omnipresent.
(funny one) The belief that God causes bad things to happen or doesn't prevent them from happening.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
That's your belief system.
If you could prove ANY of it, it becomes fact instead of belief.
good post. But these atheists are too intellectually deficient to see that they have a religion, when its obvious to everyone else..LOL.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143150 Dec 12, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
How many werewolf believers are trying to make carrying silver illegal?
Is it illegal to carry silver?
great american atheist

Des Plaines, IL

#143151 Dec 12, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Given the passion I have observed that some atheists have for the lack of existence of a God, I don't think it is a lack of belief. You can't be passionate about nothing.
We are passionate about the truth.Ya see we were created by the folks on the tenth plant to harvest gold in africa.Its all written down in the ancient sumerian writings my friend.95% of all the old testiment was coppied from the sumerians.The adam and eve thing,the snake thing,even the virgin birth and jesus thing all sumeriam.The bible put a little twist on each story.The human race was created for one reason and one reason only,For slave labor.Not for paradise as the bible trys to bullshit us with.So when we die we're dead.No heaven or hell or judgement.Just a good old dirt nap.The egyptians made up the hear after deal.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#143152 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The belief that you're right.
The belief that the bible is all lies.
The belief that religious people are stupid.
The belief that life created itself.
The belief that prayer is all in your mind.
The belief that Jesus never existed.
The belief that Moses never existed.
The belief that Paul never existed.
The belief that God isn't omnipresent.
(funny one) The belief that God causes bad things to happen or doesn't prevent them from happening.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
That's your belief system.
If you could prove ANY of it, it becomes fact instead of belief.
Still stuck trying to convince yourself of this straw man fallacy. No one is buying it.

Just like theism, there are a number of different philosophies under the category of atheism.

And, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but NONE of the atheistic philosophies really focus any energy on your trite little mythology.

There is of course Buddhism, which is a non-deity based philosophy. As is Jainism.

Then there's Humanism, which would be more where my beliefs are based --

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. As such, we generally believe:

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies.

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death.

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence.

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community.

Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature's integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.

Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#143153 Dec 12, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You're my father, you tell me.
13Dec12.....

.....Naw. Not at haul.

Ps:.....your father was some male pig from yer local piggery.

It shows so vell in vot you haffa say.

BobLoblah wouldn't go handy to yer 'herd' vit a 10ft pole.

Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
Loren Eberly

Bellefontaine, OH

#143154 Dec 12, 2012
Fiscal Cliff and Budget:

President Barrack Obama and Congress avoiding fiscal cliff and balancing budget; Demands complying with USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayers wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.

This enables every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes with the same percentage of their wages, investment profit, and independent business profit and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

This enables President Barrack Obama and Congress to avoid fiscal cliff and balance every budget.

President Barrack Obama and Congress holding Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in tax abated enterprise zones in USA, Mexico, China, etc., low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay property tax on state appraised value of their American Dream to fund schools. Pay interest on lottery winners winnings Legislators invest in school bonds, Pay for all stimulus packages, tax abatements, tax incentives, tax refunds, tax credit, and tax exemptions.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands won’t enable President Barrack Obama and Congress to avoid fiscal cliff or balance any budget; Pay Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old. America’s grandchildren’s children cannot pay this debt in a hundred million years.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#143155 Dec 12, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, that's a belief system.
Well, then, that is part of *my* belief system. I base my truth claims on evidence when dealing with the real world (and axiom systems when dealing with math and logic). The claim that there is an intelligence that is responsible for the universe is a very large claim and would require a great deal more evidence than anything ever presented by religious believers. I have found that most religious people think that simply pointing around them constitutes evidence for such an intelligence without really realizing the types of evidence required to prove their proposition. For one: complexity is definitely not enough.

But what you fail to grasp is that there is no single collection of beliefs that all atheists hold except for the simply *lack* of belief in deities. Some (probably most) are atheists because of reasoning similar to mine (i.e, lack of convincing evidence for a deity), some are atheists because of rebellion (a very poor reason, in my view), some are atheists and believe in an afterlife. Some are atheist and do not (I, for one, do not).

The point is that being an atheist simply means you lack a belief in any deity. How you came to lack such belief, whether through positive or negative causes, is irrelevant to the basic definition.

Now, atheists will tend to not believe the Bible is completely accurate since it mentions a deity. For the same reason, they will tend to not consider the Iliad completely accurate. In neither case do they consider the writings as sufficient reason to believe everything written.
An unsubstantiated claim.
Well, at least it is a claim that can be tested. Shall we survey those who have believed in a religion then decided it was wrong and find out whether they find themselves happier before or after?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#143156 Dec 12, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Still stuck trying to convince yourself of this straw man fallacy. No one is buying it.
Just like theism, there are a number of different philosophies under the category of atheism.
And, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but NONE of the atheistic philosophies really focus any energy on your trite little mythology.
There is of course Buddhism, which is a non-deity based philosophy. As is Jainism.
Then there's Humanism, which would be more where my beliefs are based --
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.
The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. As such, we generally believe:
Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies.
Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.
Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.
Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death.
Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence.
Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community.
Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature's integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.
Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.
Just think this needs to be said again. Ethics is a matter of human need and interest as driven by experience. NOT a matter of guessing the whims of some supernatural tyrant.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143157 Dec 12, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Basically people are going to do what they are going to do. Here is the difference. Where an atheist will have to lay out their actions by rationale and reason a theist will just say, the invisible sky wizard directed me!
Lol funny but true.
<quoted text>
hmmmm, what are you talking about, liberty guy?

@Tide....CASHEW!!!:-)

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143158 Dec 12, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Smother me with a pillow hunny :)
OK, YOU ASKED FOR IT!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143159 Dec 12, 2012
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>12Dec12.....
.....and Now you are beginning to unnerstand about the baddest people on the planet hereIN.....all these hateful, hypocritical, hAtheists.
Ps:....They should be stook up against the wall and shot with a ball of their own schidt.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
What? I never said that, you muppet!:-)

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#143160 Dec 12, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what wiki says about Sikhism:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh
Would you say this is accurate?
If not, why not.
You will be scored on your answer.
(Not really)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! LOL, NEVER TRUST WIKI, WHICH IDIOT WROTE THAT?

MIRACLES? WHAT F*CKIN' MIRACLES?

No, that is not what a sikh is.

All that is wrong! Firstly, sikh and khalsa are two different things now. I hate it when people don't read the scriptures and they make shit up.

I'll give you background to sikh scriptures later.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#143161 Dec 12, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
A flood of biblical proportions more than likely really did occur around the time Noah built his ark, says one historian, and he has proof.
Robert Ballard, who famously found the wreckage of the Titanic in 1985 and was more recently involved in the search for Amelia Earhart’s plane, says there is a very real possibility that during Noah’s time period–about 12,000 years ago–massively iced-over lands collided with the sudden rising of the Mediterranean Sea, creating a wall of water which would have wiped out everything in its path with a force 200 times greater than that of Niagara Falls.
There are a lot of 'maybe's' in that article!

But here's the stupid test: Could a wooden ship withstand the deluge that magnitude? No. Hell, we still cannot make one that huge out of wood, let alone make it float!

So no, it did not pass the stupid test.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#143162 Dec 12, 2012
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Can you say "Noah's Pier"?
Laffin.
Hey Noah! Where ya goin'?

About up to here.

LOL!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143163 Dec 12, 2012
bossdrop wrote:
<quoted text>good post. But these atheists are too intellectually deficient to see that they have a religion, when its obvious to everyone else..LOL.
I think they're afraid of admitting they have beliefs.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#143164 Dec 12, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Still stuck trying to convince yourself of this straw man fallacy. No one is buying it.
Just like theism, there are a number of different philosophies under the category of atheism.
And, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but NONE of the atheistic philosophies really focus any energy on your trite little mythology.
There is of course Buddhism, which is a non-deity based philosophy. As is Jainism.
Then there's Humanism, which would be more where my beliefs are based --
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.
The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. As such, we generally believe:
Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies.
Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.
Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.
Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death.
Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence.
Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community.
Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature's integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.
Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.
That's a great list of atheist beliefs. Thanks!

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