Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139505 Nov 20, 2012
If only you knew of an all powerful god that could prevent childhood leukaemia. Or maybe you think they need to fall on their arses too.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, why would He force us? He guides us, we know better. Some people get fat, most that do are by choice.
I do give my kids the best. But I also give them the opportunity to fall on their ass, so they can learn how to get back up. I think that's a good trait in any parent.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139506 Nov 20, 2012
There are plenty of christards on Topix that quote Leviticus to justify their gay issues.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Leviticus is a historical account of the laws of the Levites. They are not Christian laws.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139507 Nov 20, 2012
Thinking wrote:
By discussing loneliness as something that could even afflict an all powerful god, I think you've actually constructed a god in our image.
<quoted text>
I just believe in the God sikhi talks about, he's not an angry or hateful God, so he's not going to kill be for doing that! I can swear at him and still won't hate me!

GGS says God is sargun= he has all virtues/qualities

and then he is also nirgun= he has none at all

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#139508 Nov 20, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Who?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_vi...

And so far as I know the Klan doesn't refer to itself as an atheist organization.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139509 Nov 20, 2012
Thinking wrote:
If only you knew of an all powerful god that could prevent childhood leukaemia. Or maybe you think they need to fall on their arses too.
<quoted text>
But there is that God, he's sleeping at the moment but one day he will awaken, scientists will hopeful find a cure and maybe even a prevention!!!!!! Only the God inside us can help us, nobody is going to come from the sky!!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139510 Nov 20, 2012
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_vi...
And so far as I know the Klan doesn't refer to itself as an atheist organization.
Did you know that an Indian woman in Ireland has died because she wasn't allowed to have an abortion? So sad, I think she would have been better of in India!

@ some stupid catholic people...use your brains! Is your God happy now??? The mother and child are both dead now, you morons!!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#139511 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
Only the God inside us can help us, nobody is going to come from the sky!!
Ya got that right.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#139512 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
Did you know that an Indian woman in Ireland has died because she wasn't allowed to have an abortion? So sad, I think she would have been better of in India!
@ some stupid catholic people...use your brains! Is your God happy now??? The mother and child are both dead now, you morons!!
Yeah I read about that on MSN just the other day. Personally I don't like abortion if the fetus looks like a baby, but if it looks like and is the size of a pollywog, and has the nervous system similar to one, then I don't have as big a problem with that being aborted. The bible really doesn't mention the unborn much that I know of, so I don't see how Christians get riled by it. If all life is sacred them be a frikkin vegan and abolish the death penalty.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#139513 Nov 20, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
If you wouldn't be so fearful of the word "faith", you'd understand.
Atheists have faith in their opinion that there is no god.
Done.
Since it's not fact, it's belief, or faith...
You leave me no choice but to conclude that you are mentally incapable of having this conversation.

I thought you could do it. Maybe that was unrealistic.

So, I'll just have to explain why you're wrong, and you can either learn from that, or remain ignorant.

Atheism has several definitions, from a lack of belief in gods, to the belief that God Almighty does not exist, to the belief that there are no gods at all. The only definition that makes sense to use is "lack of belief in gods". That's how most self identifying atheists define atheism, so that's the definition you should use. You wouldn't want Muslims defining Christianity for you, right?

That definition that most atheists use describes a position that requires no faith. A lack of belief does not require faith. I can't assume you won't try to argue that it does, so I have to ask. Do you agree?

The definition of atheism as the position that God does not exist, is a Christian specific, and utterly ridiculous definition. Hindus could hold that position. Are Hindus atheists? Any definition of atheism that invokes the name of a particular god is faulty. But even under this definition, faith is not a requirement. You can believe/conclude that God does not exist simply by noticing the lack of evidence where there should be evidence. You can discount the definition of God, because the definition has logical contradictions. You can discredit the claim by researching it's origins and mutations. Beliefs in "God" are as varied as beliefs in all deities. Few people would describe God as the same entity. If the definition doesn't count, if any interpretation leads to the same being, than there is only one god belief, and the name is irrelevant, and religion is irrelevant. All descriptions, demands for worship, specific supernatural claims, become irrelevant. Is that what you believe? Do you believe that all people who worship any and all deities are actually believing in the same god that you are, under a different and possibly completely incorrect way? If you can believe that, why do you choose a way to believe? The other side of the coin is that you believe that your beliefs are correct, while all others are simply false. Are the believers in other gods being fooled? Do you think they are bound to Hell?

The definition of atheism as the belief that there are no gods at all, anywhere, is sometimes referred to as gnostic atheism. It can be a leap of faith, but faith is not a requirement for the position. Ignorance about the human incapability of having absolute knowledge can get you to gnostic atheism without faith. If a brief explanation about the limits of human knowledge doesn't convince someone into an agnostic position, then you can say there is definitely faith involved. It's not an absolute requirement of the position, however. And that is what I'm arguing.

So, where, under any definition of atheism, is faith an absolute requirement?

Will we need to examine the definition of "faith" next? I'm using it to mean specifically, any version of faith that is functionally equal to religious faith.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#139514 Nov 20, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Another leap of logic. Our consciousness does not imply that the universe is conscious. Where do you get this stuff?
Evolution?

Separate cells creating a larger entity?

Different cells for different purposes of a greater being? Even regulator cells to keep a balance.

Things like beehives and ant colonies? Individual units bound by some sort of mass mind? Even humans do some of that.

All of those are divisions of the same universal mass. Same planet, anyhow.

Pretty common.

Why do you find it such a leap?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#139515 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you taking my side or his?

Do I have to choose a side? Are we getting married?

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#139516 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, ok! Thanks!
OMG, I always think my heart is going to stay up when the ride goes down, if you get what i'm saying? yh, i love rides, the carousel ride is my favourite, lol! Roller coaster rides are more bloody scary after watching final destination! Those films are f...aaaahhhhhhhhhhh, I can't even swear before i blumin scream. lol.
I really want to do a bungy jump! OMG i'm scared already! lol
I've never jumped off of anything with a rubber band strapped to my ankles, but it sounds fun.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139517 Nov 20, 2012
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Ya got that right.
Thank you!

By the way, I'm in charge here so if you ever have any problems like bullying, stalking, dogs trying to hump your leg or anything else, just tell me and then I'll have a word with the 'guys' and they'll sort it all out! Ok?

Nice to have you on the forum, hope to hear more from you!!

:-)

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139518 Nov 20, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice post. I don't think your 100% atheist. You're open to the possibility of a god. I see that as a good start.
Dude. I am an atheist. Being an atheist does not mean I have to completely rule out the possibility of a god. I also haven't ruled out the possibility that unicorns exist. That doesn't mean I might one day believe in unicorns, it means that I am not willing to take on a position that is impossible to defend. It is impossible to ever completely rule something out.

And, as I said, I'm open to the possibility of a god, but not any god that man has described. Your books give your gods positive qualities, and therefore they are testable. We can take the claims made in the bible or the koran, and test them. For example - your god claims that he answers all prayers in his book - he does not do this. He claims to be all loving - he clearly is not. This makes your god very unlikely in my eyes, unless his book was a deliberate attempt to confuse.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139519 Nov 20, 2012
Croco_Duck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah I read about that on MSN just the other day. Personally I don't like abortion if the fetus looks like a baby, but if it looks like and is the size of a pollywog, and has the nervous system similar to one, then I don't have as big a problem with that being aborted. The bible really doesn't mention the unborn much that I know of, so I don't see how Christians get riled by it. If all life is sacred them be a frikkin vegan and abolish the death penalty.
I don't like abortion at all, but when the mother is dying and she needs to have an abortion, then I don't care how many months pregnant she is, save her before she dies!!

I'm a vegatarian but I don't think I could be vegan.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139520 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution?
Separate cells creating a larger entity?
Different cells for different purposes of a greater being? Even regulator cells to keep a balance.
Things like beehives and ant colonies? Individual units bound by some sort of mass mind? Even humans do some of that.
All of those are divisions of the same universal mass. Same planet, anyhow.
Pretty common.
Why do you find it such a leap?
And you think that any of these examples support the notion that the universe is conscious because we are conscious?

I'm getting kinda tired of this string of conversation. You seem to think that everyone else should be seeing these strange connections you make, and that since they are so "obvious," you needn't provide any evidence for them.

Also, I'm quite sure bees and ants do not have a "mass mind", at least in the traditional definition of the word mind. They just are good at communicating.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#139521 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
Thank you!
By the way, I'm in charge here so if you ever have any problems like bullying, stalking, dogs trying to hump your leg or anything else, just tell me and then I'll have a word with the 'guys' and they'll sort it all out! Ok?
Nice to have you on the forum, hope to hear more from you!!
:-)
Thanks. So, you're in charge like how? Mod of this thread or the whole forum?

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#139522 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
I don't like abortion at all, but when the mother is dying and she needs to have an abortion, then I don't care how many months pregnant she is, save her before she dies!!
I'm a vegatarian but I don't think I could be vegan.
I like bacon and pepperoni too much to be a vegetarian.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139523 Nov 20, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never jumped off of anything with a rubber band strapped to my ankles, but it sounds fun.
lol, you scare me even more. I couldn't do it on my own, the first time I would have to have those expert people strapped to me, but before I do that I climbing the Eiffel tower!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#139524 Nov 20, 2012
I can tell it is getting to be winter. I just rubbed the cat up and down and placed him in a box with Styrofoam nuts. They all stuck to 'im.

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