Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139318 Nov 20, 2012
Next time you see a shouty christian proselytising on the street corner, consider saying this to them:

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward." - Matthew 6:5

I don't believe there is an underlying safety net that you call god below but I have a strong sense of what is right and wrong. I'm not out to wreck that which some people use to get them through tough times.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, sikhi was created for those people who wanted to live in peace with eachother, but who weren't being allowed to in hinduism/islam. Even if it was for four days, sikhi gave men freedom! But now even the verses from the GGS have been taken out of context and sikhi has been corrupted.
Yes, we don't convert. But these days baptism is being mentally forced on us sikhs and it makes me f*cking angry!!!!!!
I've never listened to radio 4, I'm always listening to asian network.
But from my understanding of GGS, people like you are the true ones. From the bottom of your heart you do believe in the 'God' that sikhi talks about, because you can't bear to see children dying of leukemia! That is the state religious people should be in, but most of them are too obsessed with worshiping God from thier mouths and trying to get other people to say God from their mouths.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139319 Nov 20, 2012
Asian Network and Radio 6 nearly got axed, didn't they? Glad they didn't. BBC radio is a marvellous institution.
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, sikhi was created for those people who wanted to live in peace with eachother, but who weren't being allowed to in hinduism/islam. Even if it was for four days, sikhi gave men freedom! But now even the verses from the GGS have been taken out of context and sikhi has been corrupted.
Yes, we don't convert. But these days baptism is being mentally forced on us sikhs and it makes me f*cking angry!!!!!!
I've never listened to radio 4, I'm always listening to asian network.
But from my understanding of GGS, people like you are the true ones. From the bottom of your heart you do believe in the 'God' that sikhi talks about, because you can't bear to see children dying of leukemia! That is the state religious people should be in, but most of them are too obsessed with worshiping God from thier mouths and trying to get other people to say God from their mouths.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139320 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, my young fellow inmate trapped in this material world.
First, technology and physics employed by us proves that the effect on the rock and humans is the same. Very widespread.
Now, let me clue you into a hard fact of physical life. You can only do what you are allowed to do by superior forces. You fight one directly and you will lose. You will get worn out even if it is slightly stronger than you. Knowing where to stand and use leverage of various sorts is the key to getting what you want done, but even then you have to be allowed to get into those positions to effect such. All the way down to the most basic of actions, including thought. Something has to move out of the way for your puny force to express itself. You have a universe of much stronger forces than you restricting your initiatives. All moving at a very rapid pace, and from your perspective, in an incomprehensible pattern. Something as simple as the gravity holding the earth in orbit is also holding you, plus the galaxy holding the sun and earth and you. They are far away, but they have you firmly in their grip. You dance to their tune. Period. You have the illusion you can move on your own if and when you desire. This is hard physics. The universe is bound by very strong forces in relation to you.
It lets you think you exist the way you are.
If that physical universe moves according to your will, it is because there is a leverage you possess on a dimension you can't see letting you act.
I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see one of your transparent attempts to feign wisdom. Just stop it. The fact that a magnet can exert a force on a piece of metal does not "prove" that we are being "controlled" by EM. You are bordering on delusions of grandeur - thinking you have "figured it all out." From "my" perspective - the universe is incomprehensible - but not to you, right? You know the secret of the magnets!

Seriously, please stop spouting this garbage at me. It's cool if you wanna believe this nonsense. What you can't do is claim a few simple facts - that magnets exist and that our blood has iron - and then expect me to believe you when you say that we are being controlled by the EM gods.
Loren Eberly

Mount Vernon, OH

#139321 Nov 20, 2012
Hold Elected Officials Accountable:

The majority of us the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; Are responsible to hold President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members accountable.

To comply with USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit.

This enables every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider. Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

President, the Justices they appoint, and Elected Officials hold Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Illegal Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay property tax on state appraised value of their American Dream to fund schools. Pay interest on lottery winners winnings Legislators invest in school bonds, Pay for all stimulus packages, tax abatements, tax incentives, tax refunds, tax credit, and tax exemptions.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.

Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands is bankrupting USA. Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.

America’s grandchildren’s children cannot afford life and pay this debt with the $7.25 per hour Government mandated labor wage in a hundred million years.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139322 Nov 20, 2012
I'm not trying to be mean, but please, cut it out. If you have some hard evidence outside of the patterns you find in your mind, by all means share it, that would be interesting. But pointing out that we have iron in our blood and that EM exists as a force does not tell me that we are "dancing to a tune." If you mean to say that our senses are not an authoritative source for information about reality, and that "things" and forces and even dimensions might exist that we are not privy to, I would agree with that. But all this EM nonsense is your belief, and not anything more.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139323 Nov 20, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
A good point. I'd go one further and say prayer is not only not needed, as an all knowing god will know everything, but prayer is also superstition. It is superstition because people believe they can magically effect future events by saying magical words.
I understand what you're saying, but I think it also depends on your understanding of pray. In sikhism, God is like your conscience and inner strength. This is an example of a prayer by my 10th guru;

O Lord grant me the boon, that I may never deviate from doing a good deeds. That I shall not fear when I go into combat. And with determination I will be victorious. That I may teach myself this greed alone, to learn only Thy praises and when the last days of my life come, I may die in the might of the battlefield, Guru Gobind Singh.

That is a prayer they said before they went into a battle. In this prayer the guru didn't say, O God magical kill my enemies! God is within and he's not going to do any magic, you have to fight on your own in this world, but talking to your inner self will motivate you and give you inner strength. The 'God' concept in sikhism was meant to help you awaken your self-belief. Most Hindus at that time thought God was going to come out of the sky and help them, I believe pray like that is pointless.
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

#139324 Nov 20, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Do you think should zap us all with fuzzy feelings & fix everything for us?
While I would love to have a sugardaddy in the sky that would fix all the evils in the world I'd be satisfied if your god could be so kind as to send a mental message not to kill innocent people to the more batsh*t members of your religion every now and then.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139325 Nov 20, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't speak for "many Christians", just one. If you have a question for me (and not all of Christianity), them ask.
Ok, why can you not see the distinction between so called "hard atheism" and "soft atheism?" It has been explained to you many times. Does it make you feel better to think that we would be christians if we didn't "believe" so strongly in atheism?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139326 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
The problem is that most religious people don't want to understand atheists and vice versa.
Since many (perhaps even most) atheists were once religious people, we understand religious people quite well.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139327 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
I'm saying we should look at God scientifically. Why do you have to make the God belief a 'cuckoo concept'?
Tell you what: Tell us how one would go about looking at God "scientifically".

I think we'll quickly come to the answer to your question.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139328 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
"random quantum fluctuations"......I can agree with that but not the "random" part.
Oh? Why not?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139329 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
Now tell me, is gravity a man with a long white beard or a girl with a tattoo? Maybe, gravity is a ballerina with pretty blonde hair and blue eyes?
It's none of those things. But nearly all of the theists here will refer to their God as a "he", will talk about his "eyes" or his "hands", will ascribe various human emotions to him (such as love or anger).

You've noticed that, have you not?

Now, should we worship gravity?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139330 Nov 20, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Asian Network and Radio 6 nearly got axed, didn't they? Glad they didn't. BBC radio is a marvellous institution.
<quoted text>
I didn't know that about radio 6.

I listen to asian network when i'm going to uni and I thought what will i listen to now? noooooooo not radio 1 and not the local station! lllol. I'm happy it didn't get axed, i started listening to it more, i thought that might save it. lol.

I can't drive without listening to Tommy sandhu in the mornings and nihal, they're amazing.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139331 Nov 20, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Next time you see a shouty christian proselytising on the street corner, consider saying this to them:
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward." - Matthew 6:5
I don't believe there is an underlying safety net that you call god below but I have a strong sense of what is right and wrong. I'm not out to wreck that which some people use to get them through tough times.
<quoted text>
Lol, i was talking about sikh baptism being forced on us 'non-sikhs'(the ones who cut their hair). They tell me i'm doomed, LLLLLLOL.

dw, i'm used to the christians that are nutters. I just tell them to f*ck it, now! I'm happy going to hell!! just imagine, heaven will be full of all the religious crackers and hell will have people like you and me, i'm not complaining!!! lol

Good, that's all you need in life, "a strong sense of what is right and wrong."

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#139332 Nov 20, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see one of your transparent attempts to feign wisdom. Just stop it. The fact that a magnet can exert a force on a piece of metal does not "prove" that we are being "controlled" by EM. You are bordering on delusions of grandeur - thinking you have "figured it all out." From "my" perspective - the universe is incomprehensible - but not to you, right? You know the secret of the magnets!
Seriously, please stop spouting this garbage at me. It's cool if you wanna believe this nonsense. What you can't do is claim a few simple facts - that magnets exist and that our blood has iron - and then expect me to believe you when you say that we are being controlled by the EM gods.
But you are.

It's magnetic current, a name for the basic energy flow, not "magnets". You have to get past thinking in "things", and into processes.

That energy flow and how it makes "matter", and how it is a closed system is revealed in your BBT. You are part of the circuitry. Like it or not.

Even if it was a singularity, the injection of energy from the BB started an energy flow, and thus a polarity, leading and trailing ends of that flow. If it is a closed container.

Look up spherical capacitor. This planet is one. Atoms are, too. Think. Make some connections.

You might understand if you get older. Your energy level will drop and you will feel more of the forces of the universe. Right now you are a young puppy bouncing around, oblivious to everything.

Don't you just hate that?

I'm curious if others have noticed this, but for many years I can feel the perihelion approach. There is even a bit of motion sickness before. Things get heavy. A few days afterwards and everything lightens up. There is more to it than just decreasing sunlight. There is a change in orbital speed and gravity.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#139333 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
You can do anything and everything, you just have to believe!:-)
If only it were that easy.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#139334 Nov 20, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with much of what you posted.
Now, why the outright denial a supernatural force is responsible? You certainly don't have enough evidence to make that a fact.
There isn't even a good definition of the term 'supernatural force'. If it is a 'force', it obeys some sort of force law, and therefore is *natural*. If it doesn't obey some sort of force law, then there is no way to test to see if it is a valid idea, so it is not scientific.

if you want the concept of a supernatural force to be considered seriously, you have to propose a testable theory involving one (with definitions, etc). And no, untestable theories are not going to be considered.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#139335 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
"random quantum fluctuations"......I can agree with that but not the "random" part.
Too bad. Quantum events *are* random.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#139337 Nov 20, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
It's none of those things. But nearly all of the theists here will refer to their God as a "he", will talk about his "eyes" or his "hands", will ascribe various human emotions to him (such as love or anger).
You've noticed that, have you not?
Now, should we worship gravity?
It's not my fault, if I use he. God is unisex in sikhi, we have male and female names for him and we don't say he, we say they. Oh, shit! I said he again, damn!!! This is the fault of the English speaking people, they made God male.

Does gravity give you inner strength? do you love it? could you die for it? Has it helped you become a better person? If so, you can believe it if you want, I don't!

“Live Good, & Feel Good.”

Since: Aug 09

Atl.

#139338 Nov 20, 2012
Clementia wrote:
<quoted text>
It's more beautiful when you listen to it or read it in gurmukhi, because the verses rhyme and are very sweet.
I don't have any problem with atheists! I have a problem with people who think they know it all and who then try to enforce their view on me. Normally, but not always, these people are the religious nuts! The atheists I know, told me about their beliefs but they have never tried to 'convert' me. That 'virtue' only belongs to the fanatic religious people.
I don't have a problem with atheists either. In the context of an internet "friend", I have made a number of friends on topix, even some that are atheists. In fact, I rather have an argument with an atheist because they usually go indepth with their criticisms and defense of what they stand for.

And I agree with you as well about those trying to impose their views. I'm a Christian. Proud of it and proud that I worship Jesus Christ as God. But nowhere in the accounts of Jesus' life on earth, did Jesus ever tell his followers to force people to worship Him Jesus, as God. All Jesus said was to "go and tell". That's it. Christians can't make anyone worship Jesus. Once a person has heard the Gospel of Christ, then its their decision to embrace, or reject. After someone reads or hears the Gospel, it then becomes personal between that person, and God. The responsibility of the Christian to that person is over. If after a person knows, and the Christian or Organization is forcing the issue, then that Christian or Org. is exhibiting cult like tendencies. And a cult is anti-freedom, and not of God.

And I know almost everyone in this forum, have read about Jesus Christ. They reject, that is their issue. I mostly stop by to see the latest argument and defense these atheists have for their beliefs...which can be both hilarious and require a serious response or two at times.

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