Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139062 Nov 19, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Seems like we may have struck upon a paradox. Could an all knowing being create something that it couldn't know?
Of course. Especially if it created an environment for things to change.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139063 Nov 19, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Omniscience does not require you know the ultimate result of your actions. Your perception of it doing such is a limited intellectual understanding of such.
FWIW, Eve and the apple established very early on that the Abrahamic God did not create man fully expecting to know what would happen.
Or it established that the authors of the bible did not have a firm grasp of logic and the paradoxes that may arise when logic is ignored.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139064 Nov 19, 2012
Thinking wrote:
If you're above Absolute Zero you're emitting thermal radiation,
whether in a vacuum or not.
Do you really believe a hot item placed in deep space will remain forever hot?
<quoted text>
"If we put a thermometer in darkest space, with absolutely nothing around, it would first have to cool off. This might take a very very long time. Once it cooled off, it would read 2.7 Kelvin. This is because of the "3 degree microwave background radiation." No matter where you go, you cannot escape it -- it is always there. "

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/a...

In case you didn't believe me.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139065 Nov 19, 2012
I didn't say that I was listening to anyone called "everyone". I said that, according to most versions of the Bible, Christians are supposed to *love* everyone, and yet the Christians on this thread are hardly acting in a "loving" manner by their choice of language.
<quoted text>
You mean that worldwide flood for which there is a complete lack of scientific evidence?
<quoted text>
Weird that a god wouldn't give all of his "children" the same option to be Christian. I guess he doesn't believe in fairness, eh?
<quoted text>
If angels don't have free will, then you must be claiming that your god *forced* them to rebel and then punished them for what he forced them to do. Gee, he's just a wealth of fairness, ain't he?
<quoted text>
Read it. I wasn't impressed. And I didn't misquote it.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
There you go listening to someone called "everyone"
Nope, as I told you previously, I'm not listening to "everyone". I'm basing my position on what is in the Bible itself. Apparently, you don't actually read my postings, because I have already told you that.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
because there is not one version of the Bible which says what you think it says.
On the contrary, it says it, repeatedly, and quite explicitly: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." All humans are neighbors in this modern world of communication, so if you act in a hateful manner as the Christians on this thread so often do, then they are being hypocritical.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
When a Christian tells YOU that your path is a road to hell and damnation, you call that hate, when that is love.
When they post that others are going to hell, and do so in an obviously gleeful manner, then they are being hateful and self-righteous, and I will call them on it.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
According to you, God is not loving
No, according to your own Bible, your god is not loving, because he kills everyone (including the innocent).
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
By the way, science has tried to tell you and all your kind that science can not measure the supernatural or explain it.
Because there is no evidence for the supernatural. Yet you persist in your irrational belief.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
I made no claim about angels
So now you're denying that you claimed that angels lacked free will? Gee, do you backpedal much?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139066 Nov 19, 2012
River Tam wrote:
Hey, Bob is here !!
Easy scrollin.
It really is nice. I appreciate the fact that he formats his posts in such a distinctively stupid way, it allows me to safely scroll through with no worries.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139067 Nov 19, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Cap. Capacitance.
That's it. That's the problem.
Too much dielectric in atheist brains, cutting them off from the greater universe. They can't "feel" it. They can't communicate with it. It is just a photograph to them.
The energy, we will call it electricity for convenience, builds up within each enclosed unit with no release, which then overpowers other components within, scrambling the circuitry. Spurious signals. Overheating. A constipation of sorts.
They can't break the barrier from the inside of themselves. One reason they scream for someone to "prove" the higher authority exists. By showing them a photograph.
This shouldn't be that hard to fix.
By golly, God works in mysterious ways.
Does your wisdom know no bounds dave? How can I let the holy magnet into my heart? Tell me!

I found a neat video. It's pretty cool (not being sarcastic this time). I don't think he talks too much about magnets though, so you might not like it.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139068 Nov 19, 2012
If angels don't have free will, then you must be claiming that your god *forced* them to rebel and then punished them for what he forced them to do. Gee, he's just a wealth of fairness, ain't he?
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
if you had red even one chapter of the Bible
I have "red" all of them.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
the first one, then you would not have such an erroneous understanding of freewill. Doing something does not mean that you have the freewill to do that. Here is an example, wives do not have the freewill in the confines of marriage to have sex with other people.
You don't know what the philosophical concept of "free will" is, do you? It means that people *have* choices, not that they shouldn't make bad choices. If angels lack free will, then it means that they were incapable of choosing, and therefore, their rebellious acts were not within their control. As such, any punishment by your god would automatically be a travesty of justice.

But hey, you want to worship a being that has a long documented (by your own scriptures) track record of genocide. It says a great deal about your moral character.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139069 Nov 19, 2012
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
The last Thursday foolishness came from you
It's hardly foolish to point out the absurdity of holding a belief without evidence to support it.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
and if you think that a false memory is plausible, then that is your issue and it only relates to an idea of a 11 billion year old universe.
Nope, it has no relation to that idea. There is no evidence of false memories. But there is indeed evidence of the Universe's being 14 billion years old (not 11 billion years old).
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
you are the one make two claims, one that there is no god
When did I make such a claim?
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
and two that the universe is 11 billion years old.
No, I made a claim that the Universe is *14* billion years old, and the scientific evidence supports that claim.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
the burden of proof buy necessity falls on the atheist, because he is making a claim and making a challenge based on his belief.
No, an atheist makes no claim. Atheism is the *lack* of theistic belief. The one making the claim is the theist. Therefore, the burden of proof falls upon the theist.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
Actually, there is no evidence that the earth dates back to 14 billion years ago
Sure there is.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
and the fact that you do not know that the range is 11 to 18 billion years
Provide the evidence for this "range".
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
the Big bang theory does attempt to propose that the universe expanded from nothing
No, it doesn't.
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
Sediba or Jurassic rat is just another theory
A. sediba is a fossil, not a theory. Guess you missed that.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#139070 Nov 19, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course. Especially if it created an environment for things to change.
How? Logic exists - how does your deity bend the rules of logic to his whim? Because he's a deity?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#139071 Nov 19, 2012
Since I was neither afraid nor angry, I have no idea who you think you're addressing. Project much?
<quoted text>
And the evidence that I am "projecting anger" is what, exactly?
Xyzhoturutsmail wrote:
Obvious
In other words, you have no evidence. No surprise there.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#139072 Nov 19, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"If we put a thermometer in darkest space, with absolutely nothing around, it would first have to cool off. This might take a very very long time. Once it cooled off, it would read 2.7 Kelvin. This is because of the "3 degree microwave background radiation." No matter where you go, you cannot escape it -- it is always there. "
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/a...
In case you didn't believe me.
The temperature of the CMB varies, fractions of a degree but there is variation

http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/Cosmo...

Red is hottest, blue coldest

Notice the cold spot just bottom right of centre. And the cloud of cold spots to the far bottom right.

See if you can come up with and scientific conjecture for them

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139073 Nov 19, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Or it established that the authors of the bible did not have a firm grasp of logic and the paradoxes that may arise when logic is ignored.
That's a human failing. They still do it today. Even in science.

I would guarantee your logic would not be as firm as you think it is now a few hundred, or much less, years from now. Why they say, "Well, it seemed logical at the time. Shoulda worked.".

Logic is an applied thingy based upon what you know at the time. An artificial structuring.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#139074 Nov 19, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
The temperature of the CMB varies, fractions of a degree but there is variation
http://cosmology.berkeley.edu/Education/Cosmo...
Red is hottest, blue coldest
Notice the cold spot just bottom right of centre. And the cloud of cold spots to the far bottom right.
See if you can come up with and scientific conjecture for them
Electrical currents. Peltier-Seebeck Effect.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139075 Nov 19, 2012
So you now admit that things cool in space. So your original statement that the Big Bang cooling couldn't happen was total wank.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"If we put a thermometer in darkest space, with absolutely nothing around, it would first have to cool off. This might take a very very long time. Once it cooled off, it would read 2.7 Kelvin. This is because of the "3 degree microwave background radiation." No matter where you go, you cannot escape it -- it is always there. "
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/a...
In case you didn't believe me.
Thinking

Andover, UK

#139076 Nov 19, 2012
Would you like to explain how that works following a Big Bang you say can't cool?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Electrical currents. Peltier-Seebeck Effect.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#139077 Nov 19, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You should come to Japan. You'd see that the true meaning of Christmas is commerce, commerce, commerce. Now is the time to buy!
All our stupid stores have already begun playing your Christmas music. Very few of them can actually understand the words, but the constant barrage of it all drives me crazy.
Anyways, yeah, Xmas is a time of family and friends. I liked that about Western countries. In Japan, New Years is the most important holiday for family. Xmas is the time when your boyfriend takes you out for a nice dinner, and then you go to a nice hotel to repay him.
[laughing] You have one hell of a sense of humor, lol. Ahhhhh the days of our youth.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#139078 Nov 19, 2012
Thinking wrote:
?
I've got a US friend who will host us this Thursday and we'll also have a great christmas unsullied by any of that churchy nonsense.
I've got no problem saying "Merry christmas" to anyone. It's "Happy holidays" that grates on me.
<quoted text>
My good man, have a wonderful time!

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#139079 Nov 19, 2012
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know where all you christians get the idea that atheists are mean, bitter, selfish people from but it is demonstrably false:
http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/04/30/rel...
There’s some really sweet atheist and even a few here on topix. Some I have grown fond of and think they’re pretty cool people.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#139080 Nov 19, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I give all year round. I don't require a special time of the year to give.
I love christmas! It is one of the best pagan rituals we follow!
You know the routine:
Evergreens in the house = pagan.
Celebrating the Winter Solstice = pagan
So on and so forth...
Xmas has been a secular holiday for a long time and it has never been christian.
Aren’t you cool.[tipping hat]

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#139081 Nov 19, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMC6 TS1VED_index_0.html
Da Biggie Bangie.
Interesting thing about the heat, though. How did it cool off?
Heat travels by conduction or as light. If it ain't got nowhere to go, and no way to get there, it don't cool.
It cools due to the expansion, which stretches out the wavelengths of the light.

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