Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Pepsi is better than coke”

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#137952
Nov 15, 2012
 

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_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>16Nov12.....
.
BobLoblah
You really love my posts, hey? You read each and every one so very carefully!

Do you memorize them? Pray on their veracity?

I'm quite flattered to have you as my groupie, Boblblbalha!

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#137953
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, for the first 3, no for 4, 5 I can't speak to.
Do you know what a ring species is? It's a species that has a huge geographic barrier in the middle of its range. So the species goes around it - that effectively breaks up the species' environments such that each population has a slightly different one.
So think of them as living around a ring. None in the middle, and they can only reproduce with each other along the sides.
If you compare one population to the two adjacent it, they look almost the same. But if you compare populations that are separated by a lot of distance (in ring species only), they look quite different. In fact, they don't look like the same species, even though they are connected through gene flow along a geographic continuum.
Got that?
All species are like ring species, except that we're travelling through time. So if you take an extant individual now and compare it to one member of the same lineage 500 generations ago, then 1000 generations ago, and so on, the differences add up until you get a very different morphology.
Your problem is in how you conceptualize nature. You are thinking of it in terms of discrete categories. Normally you use bad categories, like "horseshoe crab" instead of species categories that are more specific (hence the word "species").
But in this case, if you want to understand how species change over time, you have to drop the categories and see them as gene pools. Over time genes are added and subtracted from the gene pool - and that creates slightly different morphologies (bodies with physical characteristics).
Does this make sense to you? Am I using difficult technical jargon?
Hiding, Iím just too old and full of unbelief to be saved,(accepting evolution). Itís just impossible for me to accept evolution. Itís just too far fetched and it takes a hell of a lot of faith and imagination. I just donít have either.

To claim that whales were land animals and came from four legged beast like wolfs is just over the freaking top. I canít be reached, Iím too far gone. Asking me to believe in evolution is like asking me to believe in childrenís fantasies.

Fusing a chromosome doesnít even sound like an easy thing to do. What I mean by that it doesnít look to me that it happened because Mrs. Chimp ate strawberry ice-cream while pregnant. Evolution is just crazy, ludicrous.

And looking at chromosome counts is pretty much meaningless. A pig has 38 chromosomes and so does a lion. Neither one look like first cousins to me. A potatoes has the same count as humans. Some peoples head looks like back side of a potatoes but thatís as close as it comes.

I donít know how in the hell you believe all this bull sh** Hiding? Evolution is operating in the land of make believe. Why we teach this horse sh** to kids is beyond me.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#137954
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
If a deity exists and if that deity created the universe, he not only doesn't answer prayer, but he really, really loves parasites, bacteria and beetles, in that order.
Well it started out as a paradise. Walking around and having fun butt naked. Then you women decided to feed us men a fruit salad which happen to be made from the forbidden fruit. Then it all went to hell in a hand basket.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#137955
Nov 15, 2012
 

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_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>16Nov12.....
.....it must be kinda cold now, what with both of you 'christineM' and 'sidingDumbPhew' living in yer car.
Ps:....how are da pissUps going!!!
BobLoblah can correctly suppose dat da sulphuric Acid enema given to ya did da trick.
....try it again, as you continue to have some schidt-for-brains remaining....
..and den, skip on over to da BBC and take part in one of 'dinKing's' kiddie porm shows.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
Hiya Blob , you ranting senseless again?

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#137956
Nov 15, 2012
 

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I wonder if Tony Hayward got his life back after his company destroyed the eco system of the Gulf of Mexico.. The sad part of all this he should be locked up in one of our Gulf Coast Prisons. Since this site is about faith. I hope BP and other companies ďbelieveĒ they will get hammered if they fail to protect their employees and the environment.

The fine is a bit low. It should have been 15 or 20 billion. Like I said, itís disappointing Hayward didnít get charged with a felony.

The Wall street Journal.

#PLC agreed to accept criminal responsibility for the 2010 Deepwater Horizon disaster that killed 11 workers and to pay $4.5 billion in fines and restitution, the biggest penalty ever levied by the U.S. Justice Department.

But the oil producer still faces an even costlier battle with the government over civil penalties for the pollution unleashed when the drilling rig exploded in the Gulf of Mexico and caused the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history.

The oil damaged the region's important seafood and tourism industries, resulting in billions of dollars in lost revenue. For weeks, repeated efforts to stop the gushing crude failed, as underwater cameras sent the live images to TV viewers. Finally, almost three months later, the well was capped.

Under the agreement, BP said it will plead guilty to 11 felony counts of "seaman's manslaughter" relating to the deaths aboard the drilling rig, admitting that its workers were negligent when they misinterpreted a key well safety test.

The company also will plead guilty to one felony count of obstruction of Congress stemming from false information it gave about the rate that oil was leaking from the well.
In addition to the settlement Thursday, three former BP employees were charged by a federal grand jury with felonies in the incident, two of them for allegedly failing to carry out a critical safety test properly.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#137957
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Serah wrote:
<quoted text>If you think I am not making a dent in your faith of no faith, then let me assure you that you are not making a dent in my faith; you are just helping me water it!!
No dents, no problem! I honestly hope that you don't take my word for anything! I don't rake your word for anything; I research all claims, you should too.

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#137958
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus.
He was found pinned to the wreckage. They blamed the Pilate.
Don't go confusing eagle with that there clever wordplay.

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#137959
Nov 15, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have to tell her that, evolution does a good enough job at doing that.
Let the poor child think for herself, eagle. Please.

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#137960
Nov 15, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You ninja'd me! Again!
Damn you and I think alike...
No surprise, we are both experienced in the ways of the ninja.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#137961
Nov 15, 2012
 
Take not Rake

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#137962
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
If a deity exists and if that deity created the universe, he not only doesn't answer prayer, but he really, really loves parasites, bacteria and beetles, in that order.
Yeah, if a deity did create this universe it certainly is one strange creature. He made several curious design decisions. Have you ever heard the one about our "recreation center" being in the middle of our "sewage plant?" I think Neil De Grasse Tyson said it first, not sure though.

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#137963
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hiding, Iím just too old and full of unbelief to be saved,(accepting evolution). Itís just impossible for me to accept evolution. Itís just too far fetched and it takes a hell of a lot of faith and imagination. I just donít have either.
To claim that whales were land animals and came from four legged beast like wolfs is just over the freaking top. I canít be reached, Iím too far gone. Asking me to believe in evolution is like asking me to believe in childrenís fantasies.
Fusing a chromosome doesnít even sound like an easy thing to do. What I mean by that it doesnít look to me that it happened because Mrs. Chimp ate strawberry ice-cream while pregnant. Evolution is just crazy, ludicrous.
And looking at chromosome counts is pretty much meaningless. A pig has 38 chromosomes and so does a lion. Neither one look like first cousins to me. A potatoes has the same count as humans. Some peoples head looks like back side of a potatoes but thatís as close as it comes.
I donít know how in the hell you believe all this bull sh** Hiding? Evolution is operating in the land of make believe. Why we teach this horse sh** to kids is beyond me.
Sometimes your inability to think amuses me, and sometimes it gets on my nerves. Hiding types out this long, interesting post for you, and you respond with the same old "durrrr I can't believe it." Why even talk about it if you won't even consider it as a possibility?

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#137964
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well it started out as a paradise. Walking around and having fun butt naked. Then you women decided to feed us men a fruit salad which happen to be made from the forbidden fruit. Then it all went to hell in a hand basket.
And misogyny was born!

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#137965
Nov 15, 2012
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Sometimes your inability to think amuses me, and sometimes it gets on my nerves. Hiding types out this long, interesting post for you, and you respond with the same old "durrrr I can't believe it." Why even talk about it if you won't even consider it as a possibility?
I'm willing to goof on eagle.

But that's it.

He's a buffoon; a jerk; a dumbass.

And deep down inside, he's mean spirited.

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#137966
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm willing to goof on eagle.
But that's it.
He's a buffoon; a jerk; a dumbass.
And deep down inside, he's mean spirited.
Yeah, when he gets pushed a little too far he gets really nasty. I don't ever really attempt to actually talk to him either, it's just too frustrating - which is why I give hiding credit for being *so* patient with the poor guy.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

and better with rum

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#137967
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hiding, Iím just too old and full of unbelief to be saved,(accepting evolution). Itís just impossible for me to accept evolution. Itís just too far fetched and it takes a hell of a lot of faith and imagination. I just donít have either.
To claim that whales were land animals and came from four legged beast like wolfs is just over the freaking top. I canít be reached, Iím too far gone. Asking me to believe in evolution is like asking me to believe in childrenís fantasies.
Fusing a chromosome doesnít even sound like an easy thing to do. What I mean by that it doesnít look to me that it happened because Mrs. Chimp ate strawberry ice-cream while pregnant. Evolution is just crazy, ludicrous.
And looking at chromosome counts is pretty much meaningless. A pig has 38 chromosomes and so does a lion. Neither one look like first cousins to me. A potatoes has the same count as humans. Some peoples head looks like back side of a potatoes but thatís as close as it comes.
I donít know how in the hell you believe all this bull sh** Hiding? Evolution is operating in the land of make believe. Why we teach this horse sh** to kids is beyond me.
Oh, well, at least you know your limitations.

You made a few errors above:

1. The chromosome fusion didn't happen to chimps, it happened to hominins
2. It clearly is a rare event

3. How could it not have happened when:
a) telomeres are in the middle of our chromosome 22 when they're only found at the ends of chromosomes?
b) the DNA at that sequence precisely matches DNA found in Pan (chimps and bonobos), but on them it's on two different chromosomes?

That's like saying you don't believe a Model T Ford was ever built because you didn't see it happen. We have the Model T, we have pictures of it, it sure looks like it was built once.

4. The no. of chromosomes a species has doesn't mean its related to other species with the same number. Rather, you have to look at what's in the chromosomes that counts - the DNA. No one ever claimed that the number of chromosomes is meaningful information with regards to evolutionary relationships.

So the reason you don't "believe" in evolution is because you never understand it. You get just about everything wrong with evolution - and for that matter, biological science as it relates to species and DNA. I don't believe in your version of evolution either, it's loaded with nonsense and misunderstanding.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

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#137968
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well it started out as a paradise. Walking around and having fun butt naked. Then you women decided to feed us men a fruit salad which happen to be made from the forbidden fruit. Then it all went to hell in a hand basket.
How can you believe this utterly absent evidence???

Well, that's not true - we have loads of evidence as to where these stories came from (other, older cultures and religions), and why you have them (to promote a religious identity and a hierarchy with men on top).

I'm sorry Eagle, but your beliefs are insane to me. I can't imagine adults believe in this stuff.

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#137969
Nov 15, 2012
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, when he gets pushed a little too far he gets really nasty. I don't ever really attempt to actually talk to him either, it's just too frustrating - which is why I give hiding credit for being *so* patient with the poor guy.
It's practice for when I finally meet my father, Darth Vader.

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#137970
Nov 15, 2012
 

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timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, if a deity did create this universe it certainly is one strange creature. He made several curious design decisions. Have you ever heard the one about our "recreation center" being in the middle of our "sewage plant?" I think Neil De Grasse Tyson said it first, not sure though.
Never heard of it!

I have troubles watching Neil, especially when he's interviewing other people - he doesn't let them speak and he thinks his jokes are funny. Some are.
turkey

Oswego, NY

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#137971
Nov 15, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Never heard of it!
I have troubles watching Neil, especially when he's interviewing other people - he doesn't let them speak and he thinks his jokes are funny. Some are.
you're a redickolous carcass

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