Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#137855 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that any and all "tests" are inconclusive.
You could try praying to a jug of milk or fairies at the bottom of your garden, the results would be the same. Prayer doesnt work. It is superstition. That is all it is.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137856 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would gravity upset me?
What does that have to do with religion?
Because you insinuated that talking about evolution is somehow the same as preaching about religion. And you proved my point - just as gravity shouldn't upset you, evolution shouldn't upset you, and the only reason that it upsets some religious people is that it conflicts with their view of the world. If the bible insisted that god lived inside the earth and pulled people downward, gravity might be today's "controversy."

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137857 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"Also, the predictions were not completely accurate. Maybe free will enters at the last moment, allowing a person to override an unpalatable subconscious decision."
"We can't rule out that there's a free will that kicks in at this late point," said Haynes, who intends to study this phenomenon next. "But I don't think it's plausible."
Maybe this, maybe that.... Maybe we'll just add a few zeros to the end....
C'mon.
Those quotes are basically saying "every piece of evidence we have suggests that free will is an illusion, but since it is impossible to ever completely rule something out, maybe there is some unknown mechanism by which free will exerts itself that we have not yet found,"

Those quotes are just reflective of the average scientist's dislike of making 100% definitive statements about anything. Are you reading the whole quotes, or just the part where they are covering their bases?

And do you know what the word "prediction" is referring to in your first quote? They were able to predict a decision before the subject was conscious of having made said decision.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137858 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
The purpose of me posting that link was to show that there are just as many "results" that prayer works vs. prayer doesn't work....
As I've said. I think that any and all "tests" are inconclusive.
That was one study. Post some more.
Loren Eberly

Mount Vernon, OH

#137859 Nov 15, 2012
Pay property tax on state appraised value of their American Dream. Pay bank interest on purchase price of American Dream for 30 years. Pay interest on lottery winners winnings Legislators invest in school bonds,

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#137860 Nov 15, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
You could try praying to a jug of milk or fairies at the bottom of your garden, the results would be the same. Prayer doesnt work. It is superstition. That is all it is.
Only the ignorant fool prays for material possessions.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#137861 Nov 15, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Because you insinuated that talking about evolution is somehow the same as preaching about religion. And you proved my point - just as gravity shouldn't upset you, evolution shouldn't upset you, and the only reason that it upsets some religious people is that it conflicts with their view of the world. If the bible insisted that god lived inside the earth and pulled people downward, gravity might be today's "controversy."
For the timn record, evolution does not upset me. Not in the slightest.

What gets me going is the assumptive nature of evolution. The theories & hypotheses & guesses that go hand oin hand with it. Just like the post from blacklagoon where he says we "know" how the nostril evolved in whales...

I don't think evolution happened the way we think it did. There's just too many pieces of the puzzle that are missing to fully know.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#137862 Nov 15, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>That was one study. Post some more.
Flirk. Google it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy_of_prayer

skeptics.stackexchange.com/.../is-there-an ...

www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm ?...

www.secularhumanism.org/.../avalos_17

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/.../the -...

www.christianitytoday.com ... 2009 May

www.huffingtonpost.com/.../prayer-scien ...

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/.../fenwick

That's just page one. "Scientific evidence of prayer" yields 2.1 million results.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137863 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
For the timn record, evolution does not upset me. Not in the slightest.
What gets me going is the assumptive nature of evolution. The theories & hypotheses & guesses that go hand oin hand with it. Just like the post from blacklagoon where he says we "know" how the nostril evolved in whales...
I don't think evolution happened the way we think it did. There's just too many pieces of the puzzle that are missing to fully know.
I didn't mean to imply that it did - I said it "shouldn't" upset you, and that it upsets some people because it conflicts with their world view.

And we have a pretty darn good idea of how it happened and how we got here - and even though our knowledge isn't perfect - one thing is for sure - evolution happened. There is no debating that fact.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#137864 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Only the ignorant fool prays for material possessions.
Well that the majority of christians sorted

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#137865 Nov 15, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>That was one study. Post some more.
Not only that, the study only checked the "feel good" factor of it, no actual physical effects. It's a dishonest attempt, at best.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137866 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
This is the first paragraph of the wiki you posted:

The efficacy of prayer has been the topic of various studies since Francis Galton first addressed it in 1872. Double-blind studies have failed to find any effect. According to the Washington Post, "...prayer is the most common complement to mainstream medicine, far outpacing acupuncture, herbs, vitamins and other alternative remedies."[1] Physician Fred Rosner has expressed doubt that prayer could ever be subject to empirical analysis.[2]
On the issue of intercessory prayer Christian teachings have emphasized the need for guidance from the Holy Spirit as to what needs to be prayed for and have taught that "God can not be coerced."[3][4][5]

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137867 Nov 15, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Every other link you gave me yielded a 404 error. Google results - really? The number of results from a google search mean absolutely nothing. I can get millions of results from searching "witchcraft," does that mean witches are real?

Give me an actual link, to an actual study, or at least a summary that does a good job of explaining the methodology. Don't list google results.

I do think it's funny that your first link immediately denied the power of prayer. That's irony for ya.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137868 Nov 15, 2012
Ohhh... 28 Million results for witchcraft! Witches are more real than prayer!

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137869 Nov 15, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Not only that, the study only checked the "feel good" factor of it, no actual physical effects. It's a dishonest attempt, at best.
Haha. It's not surprising then - we all know prayer can affect the brain.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#137870 Nov 15, 2012
"God can not be coerced."

I find these quote especially strange. Would a god really be so petty so as to deny his followers the power of prayer if they were simply trying to do a study on it? "People are trying to find out if I'm real, time to deny the ones who are praying for relief from sickness."

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#137871 Nov 15, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't mean to imply that it did - I said it "shouldn't" upset you, and that it upsets some people because it conflicts with their world view.
And we have a pretty darn good idea of how it happened and how we got here - and even though our knowledge isn't perfect - one thing is for sure - evolution happened. There is no debating that fact.
There is plenty of debating that "fact". Not just from people like me, either. Evolutionists argue & disprove each other all the time.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#137872 Nov 15, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that the majority of christians sorted
Eh?

Are you OK, Chris? Your posts this morning have been eratic.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#137873 Nov 15, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Every other link you gave me yielded a 404 error. Google results - really? The number of results from a google search mean absolutely nothing. I can get millions of results from searching "witchcraft," does that mean witches are real?
Give me an actual link, to an actual study, or at least a summary that does a good job of explaining the methodology. Don't list google results.
I do think it's funny that your first link immediately denied the power of prayer. That's irony for ya.
No, it doesn't. I'm just showing you that the "study" of prayer is inconclusive.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#137874 Nov 15, 2012
So his one working link says Prayer failed.

Nice :)
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>This is the first paragraph of the wiki you posted:
The efficacy of prayer has been the topic of various studies since Francis Galton first addressed it in 1872. Double-blind studies have failed to find any effect. According to the Washington Post, "...prayer is the most common complement to mainstream medicine, far outpacing acupuncture, herbs, vitamins and other alternative remedies."[1] Physician Fred Rosner has expressed doubt that prayer could ever be subject to empirical analysis.[2]
On the issue of intercessory prayer Christian teachings have emphasized the need for guidance from the Holy Spirit as to what needs to be prayed for and have taught that "God can not be coerced."[3][4][5]

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