Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“You have blue shoes”

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#137751
Nov 14, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
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Going with your statement,{It didn't fuse gradually. It fused in one go. After that, it was organized gradually}.
Where is the gradual and slow change?
This Chromosome #2 fusing is telling me there was no gradual change.
But one very big major change.
This defies what evolution has been teaching.
So when did this fusing take place?
Eagle...why does the Chromosome fusion have to be gradual according to evolutionary theory?

On the contrary, the fusion itself could only happen in one go. After that, evolution gradually changed it to what it is today (some mutations on the teleomeres, some rearranging of DNA).

If you know anything about meiosis, you can understand why the fusion had to happen in one event. If you don't know anything about meiosis, it works like this:

During meiosis, all your chromosomes are divided into two (non-identical) as one germline cell becomes two sperm cells (I'm oversimplifying). They recombine in the egg.

Prior to meiosis, the germline cells divide by mitosis - that breaks them apart at the centromeres, replicates each chromosome, divides the cell wall (with each half cell taking half the identical chromosomes). Then, meiosis and, if the sperm is lucky, recombination.

The division of chromosomes is done by enzymes. They act like scissors, cutting the chromosomes in half. During mitosis, that's done at the centromeres. During meiosis, that's done at roughly the halfway mark. Immediately after mitosis, different enzymes stitch the chromosomes back together. After meiosis, the stitching has to wait until fertilization with the egg.

The "stitching" enzymes will stitch anything they find. So if, for whatever reason, the chromosomal material couldn't get out of the way in time, the enzyme would include it in the stitching. It's a dumb enzyme, right?

That's what happened. In this one, extremely rare instance, the wrong chromosome was too slow in being moved out of the cell half. So it got stitched together, making chromosome 22.

That could only happen in one event. It couldn't happen in more than one event, b/c the event requires the genetic material from both parts of the now chromosome 22. Secondly, it's such an unlikely event that it would extremely improbable to have, say, 1/4 of a chromosome being attached and then, at some later date, another quarter and another. Third, we only find 2 teleomere fragments in the middle of chromosome 22, not a several - so, only one event.

Next, Darwin was wrong about many details about evolution. He is 160 years out of date. Sorry. Compared to what we know now, Darwin was drawing on chalk boards. Yes, he came up with the central theory, but he was wrong on the speed, didn't know anything about genetics, and added some garbage to his book that simply doesn't work.

The speed of evolution is only limited to the mutation rate and the kinds of mutations that can occur. That's it. When environments change very rapidly - say, a large meteor hits the planet - species either evolve or go extinct. If the mutation rate is slow and the species is a specialist, it's probably going extinct. If the mutation rate is high, it might be ok.

Last - what changes are you going to see in morphology with the fusion of the chromosomes? Why would you see any change in morphology?

“You have blue shoes”

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#137752
Nov 14, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
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BWAHAHAHAHA
Great dodge.
I happen to know something about the litigation, but I can't discuss it.
But Mike says you can!

Geoff? Frank? Tim? Uh...

“You have blue shoes”

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#137753
Nov 14, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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So now you equate evolution to modern medicine?!?
Should I start with the alphabet song and just work my way up?

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#137754
Nov 14, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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Ahhhh....
So the illusion of control was the TV made me change the channel... mhmmmm...
Or was it the allure of the remote control that demanded my destiny to watch a different show? er, uh, set of commercials...
Right.
Go play with your GW voodoo doll.
The basic consensus is (I think) that our decisions are made "for us" by our brain - then after the fact it appears to have been a conscious decision. "We" may still retain veto power over these decisions that arise from the unconscious.

There have been a couple interesting studies on this. Here's a summary of one:

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news...

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#137755
Nov 14, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
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And would preaching to your coworkers about the awesomeness of evolution vs. the stupidness if religion be an equal indicator of objective thinking?
Who does that? If someone were to go around at work insulting people's religious beliefs, he/she should be fired too. However, I don't think there would be anything wrong with discussing a scientific theory. People shouldn't be so touchy about it. Does gravity upset you?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#137756
Nov 14, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
But Mike says you can!
Geoff? Frank? Tim? Uh...
How do you tell the sex of a chromosome?

Pull down its genes.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#137757
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is it ok for you and not me?
You presuppose that prayer doesn't work & go from there...
No, I have actually seen the reports, the complete ones, not the cherry picked ones. It has never demonstrated any amount of success beyond that of chance. You're just as well off tossing the dice or wishing.

Perfect example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_Prayer_f...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42705038/ns/weath...

Guess when it did finally rain, during the atheist convention, long after the prayers. I like this example because if prayer works, then your god clearly prefers the company of atheists.

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#137758
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
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You love hearing about crabs?
Dude...
Correction - I love hearing about eagle's crabs.
Serah

Summertown, Australia

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#137759
Nov 14, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Going with your statement,{It didn't fuse gradually. It fused in one go. After that, it was organized gradually}.
Where is the gradual and slow change?
This Chromosome #2 fusing is telling me there was no gradual change.
But one very big major change.
This defies what evolution has been teaching.
So when did this fusing take place?
A few seconds after the big bang LOL

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#137760
Nov 14, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
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You have a crush on Dave, too???
Oh, no, competition!
Dave is mine!

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#137761
Nov 14, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't know all the facts Hiding.
Here we have a established scientist that has advanced to the top.
Leading a team of other scientist.
He worked for NASA 15 years. This wasn’t a probationary employee.
Funny, you admit here that you don't know all the facts, yet you continually state things about the case as if they are facts. More importantly, you assert his story is fact and not just a grudge for being fired, slackers make all sorts of excuses when we fire them, it's not uncommon.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#137762
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
And would preaching to your coworkers about the awesomeness of evolution vs. the stupidness if religion be an equal indicator of objective thinking?
When you work in a scientific field, you have to talk about science anyway, that's just part of the job.

“You have blue shoes”

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#137763
Nov 14, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Dave is mine!
Dave is yours. Dave is so yours.

Damn! Jedi mind trick again!

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Long Beach, CA

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#137764
Nov 14, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Dave is mine!
OK, here's a tough one for you: Dave or Eagle?

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#137766
Nov 14, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
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How do you tell the sex of a chromosome?
Pull down its genes.
hahahaha!

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

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#137767
Nov 14, 2012
 
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>A few seconds after the big bang LOL
Another, highly qualified, genius! Thank god we have these highly educated, god fearing, people to keep us straight! Otherwise, we might fall for the bs that scientists are pushing.

“You have blue shoes”

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#137768
Nov 14, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
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OK, here's a tough one for you: Dave or Eagle?
Can we use duct tape?

If so, then Eagle, no contest.

If not, then Eagle, no contest.

But it's better with duct tape (apologies to Eagle).

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

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#137769
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
But I freely decided to respond to your post.
And I'm freely ending it.
Look at that! Free will!
There never was a free will!

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#137770
Nov 14, 2012
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
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When you work in a scientific field, you have to talk about science anyway, that's just part of the job.
"So, how does that zyglomatic arch look to you?"

"Robost. It's clearly an archaic trait."

"Bob, you believe in evolution, right?"

"Yeah, Hiding. What?"

"I just want to introduce you to the mysteries of evolution."

"Hiding, we're looking at a 210 thousand year old cheekbone and trying to place it into a species category! Of course I believe in evolution!"

"No, Bob, it means much more to me then that. Will you pray with me to Darwin, Bob?"

"Hiding! What the hell has gotten into you? Can we complete our analysis on this skull first? Oh, don't look at me like that!"

"Bob..."

"Oh, for Darwin's sake! Ok, ok, we'll pray to Him."

"Great!"

"But we're not doing the 1931 New Synthesis Charter three paragraph four, amendment 16 prayer. I'm not into that sect."

<Hiding picks up a femur to look at it>

"What? Why not? That's what we did last time."

"Well, last time I felt that way. But now I'm born again and think that the 1972 Punctuated Equilibrium prayer is more fitting for this work."

<Hiding lowers femur a bit>

"Oh, and which version?"

"From the Synod meeting 1984, September 5th..."

<Hiding lowers femur to the table>

"...4th hour annotation and vote."

<Hiding slams femur into Bob's temple> Whack!

"Die, heretic!!!"

<sinks to her knees, cradling Bob's bleeding head>

"Oh, Bob, why??? You should have said 5th hour!"

<Department chair walks in>

"Hiding! Another one? Darwin damnit! We're going to have to review your position here if you keep spreading that religion of yours!"

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#137771
Nov 14, 2012
 
Adventures is evolution!

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