Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 11

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#137669
Nov 14, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Orpe14IQfvU
Dave's world.
<quoted text>
I have a much.. bleaker... fantasy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#137671
Nov 14, 2012
 
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Any decision we might make would be an example.
Many factors determine what choices we make. We aren't aware of all of them. We can't change many of them. We cannot change the past. We are bound by a complex set of circumstances that we have little control over, and little knowledge of. It seems to us like we have the freedom of choice, but where is freedom in constraint? We obviously feel like we have control, but how is it determined how we would want to control anything? That direction of control is also determined by factors that we cannot fully understand or control. It's just complex enough that we can see free will where there is none. That doesn't detract from what we actually have. It just gives us a little more insight into how humans work. It also causes us to look closer at how we view responsibility. There's an opportunity for real progression here.
That's not an example, that's another rant.

Here: if I change the channel in my TV, that is my choice, my free will, to do.

No?

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#137672
Nov 14, 2012
 

Judged:

1

So again you are saying Catholics are not Christians!

OMFG it's like you got stuck the stupid button stuck!
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
And Christianity & Catholicism are variations of an ancient religion. They are different.
Similar, yes. But still different. There's a lot if beliefs & traditions that Catholics do that Christians don't.

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#137673
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure. As long as you can accept that God answers my prayers.
No, I can accept that you believe god answers your prayers. Why do you care if I believe your prayers are answered? If you believe it, good for you. I hope your religion brings you more fulfillment than it appears to bring most of the people I've seen on here.

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#137674
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not an example, that's another rant.
Here: if I change the channel in my TV, that is my choice, my free will, to do.
No?
It wasn't really a rant. You should look into some of the research on the subject of free will - you will see that what we imagine as free will is more like an illusion of control after the fact.

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#137675
Nov 14, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I donít think the majority of scientist are involved in some kind of mass conspiracy. Understanding that there are many disciplines of science. Only a very small percentage are evolutionist. These evolutionist truly believe in their discipline.
However, there is a hell of a lot of speculation and imagination in this field. Great spans are missing in their theory. It is and remains a science of the imagination. Full of artist conceptions to convince students and the public that it indeed happened.
Itís an interesting theory. But it lacks any real substance. I have looked at the fossil record. Itís pretty damn scarce for human evolution. A single bone from six million years ago. Another millions later. Here a bone and there a bone. O McDonald had a farm E I - EI - Oooo.
Doctor, Iím going to have to remain a sinner when it comes to macro evolution. I just canít come down to the alter over a speculation based theory.
Utterly false!

1. You have not "looked" at the fossil record. Further, if you did, you wouldn't know what to make of it since you don't seem to know the first thing about fossils or morphology, primitive and derived characteristics, species categories and so on. You don't even know what information can be learned from a fossil.

2. We have tons and tons and tons of hominin fossils.

Here's the wikipedia page listing fossil finds by site and not by number of bones (meaning that the no. of specimens is much higher than that list):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_ev...

Here is the most comprehensive review paper I could find that is freely available. So you can read it if you honestly want to know these things. It lists only first fossil found and then includes a brief discussion of interpretations and subsequent fossils found:

http://www.gwu.edu/~hogwash/BW_PDFs/RP156.pdf

The real beauty of that paper is that it describes the controversies in paleoanthropology. If you were truly interested in critiquing the findings of paleoanthropology, you'd read it. I don't believe that you are, though.

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#137676
Nov 14, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Also in the past few years a number of Medical Doctors have came out against macro evolution.
They represent a time when medicine was taught from a dualism perspective. That's changing. Medicine is modernizing and becoming evolutionary medicine - so the old guard is resisting. It's to be expected, but will pass as they retire.

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#137677
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not an example, that's another rant.
Here: if I change the channel in my TV, that is my choice, my free will, to do.
No?
I believe Tide posted this video a while ago. Here it is again. It's a good beginner introduction. I recommend you check it out if you are interested in the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

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#137678
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not an example, that's another rant.
Here: if I change the channel in my TV, that is my choice, my free will, to do.
No?
Our decisions are bound by determining factors. These factors are knowable. Knowing these factors would allow predictability. If all of your decisions can be predicted before you make them, you cannot demonstrate freedom from these factors. You don't make choices freely. You are bound to make them exactly as the determining factors dictate. This is what makes free will an illusion, or at least a misnomer.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#137679
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
ugh to the nth degree....
Would you consider a cheeseburger & a hamburger the same thing?
Would you consider a hamburger with cheese a hamburger?

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#137680
Nov 14, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I tell you what, how about you showing me some of that real undeniable proof. Iím not talking about some scientific article written in Greek.
Iím talking about real proof, not speculation, nor could have, maybe, should have, kind of, may haves, suspected, presumed, alleged, assumed, we think, suppositions , hypothesis.
Real proof, you say itís out there. Let me see it. Donít send me off to some University web page that has no proof but a pages of professing a theory. I want to see facts and not theory.
"Two major goals of laboratory evolution experiments are to integrate from genotype to phenotype to fitness, and to understand the genetic basis of adaptation in natural populations. Here we demonstrate that both goals are possible by re-examining the outcome of a previous laboratory evolution experiment in which the bacteriophage G4 was adapted to high temperatures. We quantified the evolutionary changes in the thermal reaction normsóthe curves that describe the effect of temperature on the growth rate of the phagesóand decomposed the changes into modes of biological interest. Our analysis indicated that changes in optimal temperature accounted for almost half of the evolutionary changes in thermal reaction norm shape, and made the largest contribution toward adaptation at high temperatures. Genome sequencing allowed us to associate reaction norm shape changes with particular nucleotide mutations, and several of the identified mutations were found to be polymorphic in natural populations."

http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi...

"We outline similarities between this well-studied system and several recent examples of adaptive evolution associated with heritable mutator phenotype in a similarly small proportion of survivors of selection in nature and in the lab."

http://www.genetics.org/content/148/4/1559.fu...

"Evolution in the Lab: Biocide Resistance in E. coli"

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1662/0002-76... (2003)065%5B0056:EITLBR%5D2.0. CO%3B2

"Laboratory selection for desiccation resistance, which has been imposed on five replicate populations of Drosophila melanogaster for >200 generations, has resulted in enhanced survivability during periods of extreme water stress. The ability of these populations to persistently resist the fatal effects of desiccation is correlated with evolved physiological traits, namely preferential storage of carbohydrates (associated with reduced lipid reserves) and a dramatic increase in blood volume, which has led to a significant increase in extracellular sodium and chloride content, as well as body mass. When compared to other populations of this drosophilid species, these adaptive traits are unique."

http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/content/45/3/49...

Not in the lab:

"Coevolution of Host and Virus: The Pathogenesis of Virulent and Attenuated Strains of Myxoma Virus in Resistant and Susceptible European Rabbits"

https://rowan.biology.ualberta.ca/courses/imi...

"Comparative genomics of the lactic acid bacteria"

http://www.pnas.org/content/103/42/15611.full

"Hox genes in brachiopods and priapulids and protostome evolution"

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v399/n67...

I could do this all day. There are literally hundreds of thousands of papers published about evolution every year.

Stick your head back in the sand or open your eyes.

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#137681
Nov 14, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, that sucks, and I don't necessarily agree with that - but the fact is, he is a scientist, and as such, he should be able to recognize the difference between a scientific belief and a personal religious belief. If his religious beliefs corrupt his ability to be objective, then maybe he shouldn't be a scientist. He represents NASA, and he makes them look bad by lending credence to psuedoscience. Would you want our scientists to believe the earth was flat?
What Eagle is not telling you is that this person insisted on trying to convert those around him to his strange beliefs, much like Eagle insists on posting his delusions about evolution rather than addressing them.

All that person's coworkers said that his behavior was grossly inappropriate.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

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#137682
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
And Christianity & Catholicism are variations of an ancient religion. They are different.
Similar, yes. But still different. There's a lot if beliefs & traditions that Catholics do that Christians don't.
You mean Judaism?

LULZ>...

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#137683
Nov 14, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Medical doctors are not scientists. Why don't we compare the number of deniers with the number of "evolutionists." That would be fun.
Medicine is getting reworked around a Darwinian framework right now. It's bothering some older generation doctors, since medicine did not traditionally use the framework of biological science. But it has to now, because only evolutionary theory makes sense of biological phenomena.

http://myweb.lmu.edu/tshanahan/DarMed.html

http://evmedreview.com/

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/arti...
christianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

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#137684
Nov 14, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Utterly false!
1. You have not "looked" at the fossil record. Further, if you did, you wouldn't know what to make of it since you don't seem to know the first thing about fossils or morphology, primitive and derived characteristics, species categories and so on. You don't even know what information can be learned from a fossil.
2. We have tons and tons and tons of hominin fossils.
Here's the wikipedia page listing fossil finds by site and not by number of bones (meaning that the no. of specimens is much higher than that list):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_ev...
Here is the most comprehensive review paper I could find that is freely available. So you can read it if you honestly want to know these things. It lists only first fossil found and then includes a brief discussion of interpretations and subsequent fossils found:
http://www.gwu.edu/~hogwash/BW_PDFs/RP156.pdf
The real beauty of that paper is that it describes the controversies in paleoanthropology. If you were truly interested in critiquing the findings of paleoanthropology, you'd read it. I don't believe that you are, though.
I have a feeling
that moron Eagle wouldnt accept evolution unles god told him it happens...LOL

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#137685
Nov 14, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the reference.
Primates have 48 Chromosomes. We have 46, ok thatís pretty close but potatoes have 46.
Chromosome #2 fused somehow allegedly.
How did it fuse, what caused the fusion? When did the fusion occur?
Evolution supposedly is this slow blending and gradual change.
However a fusion would indicate a sudden change.
You canít gradually fuse a chromosome. I canít image a chromosome gradually fusing, can you? Itís either fused or not. Like a chain, itís linked or not linked. Thereís no gradual linking.
To me the fusing of Chromosome #2 indicates that evolution didnít happen to mankind.
We know Chromosome 2 fused because it has teleomeres in the middle of it. They're only at the ends of chromosomes.

This is what a teleomere is: http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/telo...

It didn't fuse gradually. It fused in one go. After that, it was organized gradually.

How do we know?

"The Evidence

Evidence for fusing of two ancestral chromosomes to create human chromosome 2 and where there has been no fusion in other Great Apes is:

1) The analogous chromosomes (2p and 2q) in the non-human great apes can be shown, when laid end to end, to create an identical banding structure to the human chromosome 2.(1)

2) The remains of the sequence that the chromosome has on its ends (the telomere) is found in the middle of human chromosome 2 where the ancestral chromosomes fused.(2)

3) the detail of this region (pre-telomeric sequence, telomeric sequence, reversed telomeric sequence, pre-telomeric sequence) is exactly what we would expect from a fusion.(3)

4) this telomeric region is exactly where one would expect to find it if a fusion had occurred in the middle of human chromosome 2.

5) the centromere of human chromosome 2 lines up with the chimp chromosome 2p chromosomal centromere.

6) At the place where we would expect it on the human chromosome we find the remnants of the chimp 2q centromere (4)."

http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.ht...

and

"Let us re-iterate what we find on human chromosome 2. Its centromere is at the same place as the chimpanzee chromosome 2p as determined by sequence similarity. Even more telling is the fact that on the 2q arm of the human chromosome 2 is the unmistakable remains of the original chromosome centromere of the common ancestor of human and chimp 2q chromosome, at the same position as the chimp 2q centromere (this structure in humans no longer acts as a centromere for chromosome 2."

(same link above)

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

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#137686
Nov 14, 2012
 
Moldilocks wrote:
<quoted text>
At least he didn't drown everybody in the world. God loves you.
Are you talking about all those bigoted hateful atheists that deserved to be burned to death, despite all the hundreds of warnings???? I think drowning them was an act of mercy.

Why do you serve Satan, you pathetic shit?

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#137687
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
biz to the nich....
Just flash me & get it over with.
Huh?

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#137688
Nov 14, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
You had 16 too many big words in there. That's beyond your allowed big word usage.
Uhm...ah...ok, let's try this. You like medicine? You hate disease?

If yes:

evolution = good
creationism = bad

If no:

evolution = bad
creationism = good

“Jesus is Love”

Since: Jul 12

Hutchinson, MN

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#137689
Nov 14, 2012
 
christianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a feeling
that moron Eagle wouldnt accept evolution unles god told him it happens...LOL
Thanks for your lame opinion, you fat ass do-nothing atheist.

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