Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258039 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#136856 Nov 11, 2012
still trying...
Dave Nelson wrote:
But you are restricting evolution to ONLY the biological elements and molecular structures, TOTALLY IGNORING the fact that for those organic molecules to recombine and reproduce the aid and assistance of the atomic basis of life is required.
Yes, Dave, biological evolution only takes place in ... biological beings that have ... biological elements like genes.

Glaciers don't do it. Rainbows, nope. Mountains, nope. Magnetic field lines...nope.

And, yes, for organic chemistry to work, you're right, atoms need to work as they do - as we observe them doing. If atoms did anything else - let's say Carbon only had 1 binding site - then life as we know it would not work.

Sorry, baby, your weak protest here, which is really just an observation akin to the anthropic principle, doesn't mean that carbon atoms evolve. They don't. Carbon atoms remain carbon atoms no matter what organic molecule they're in, no matter how many times they've been in an organic molecule, no matter how many times they've been digested, pooped, breathed, farted, whatever.

It's funny that your argument here is akin to the anthropic principle. It's like you're trying to sound philosophically interesting but failing. Try harder, apply your concepts here to human life.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#136857 Nov 11, 2012
A Former Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
I think "Dave" starts his drinking pretty early in the morning.
It certainly seems that way - you are very likely right.

I should go back to ignoring him.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#136858 Nov 11, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You flat don't understand what you "know".
You are all over the place. You don't understand the underpinnings of the specialty you have studied.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenome
That, dear lady, it the real story. It reads and writes DNA chemically, which is nuclear physics,(those atoms and thingies?) and which is effected via EM actions. Those effected EM actions are in turn affected by EM actions, accompanied by the other "forces" along for the ride.
First you claim that atoms evolve. Then you claim that to understand this, we need to know what the "epigenome" is.

Dave...you're all over the place.

Epigenetic markers are not examples of nuclear physics. They work through the properties of chemistry. A methyl group doesn't radioactively decay or fuse into heavier elements.

Seriously, you are spouting nonsense here.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#136859 Nov 11, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
Atoms are focuses of energy seeking equilibrium. Seeking an equalization of charge, if you will. That is why they interact with other atoms under the proper circumstances.
Yes, I am describing how abiogenesis can be effected, but no, I am not arguing for it as because what you are observing on the atomic level are effects, and not causes. The difference between your magical universe appearing out of nowhere and nothing, and something being constructed by design. You just haven't figured that out yet.
So you've decided to extend your moonbeamery into chemistry, hey? The only thing you have written that makes an ounce of sense is that atoms bind through interactions of charge.

The rest is pure quackery. You claimed that atoms evolved, then substituted non-biological uses of the word "evolved" in, then claimed that because larger molecules take part in the process of evolution, that atoms must therefore evolve - utterly failing to understand how overly- and nonsensically-reductionist you're being, then you claimed that molecular reactions at the level of epigenetics were the result of nuclear physics (when they're simply the result of more chemistry taking place).

So...yeah...

You are quite misinformed with regards to how chemistry works and quite delusional to think you understand it. Perhaps you should read more wikipedia pages?

“Jon Snow”

Since: Dec 10

The King in the Nor±h

#136860 Nov 11, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
My darling, I have know what you are trying to say for a while on this subject. But you are restricting evolution to ONLY the biological elements and molecular structures, TOTALLY IGNORING the fact that for those organic molecules to recombine and reproduce the aid and assistance of the atomic basis of life is required. While an individual carbon atom may not reproduce itself, the atomic structure of carbon atoms and others will do the necessary processing to create a needed one in its grander design from available atomic components of a suitable composition to the task. The atomic material "self organized", from your frame of reference, to manufacture similar patterns of atomic structure to perpetuate itself.
Now, my dearest love, do you remember your lectures to us about how individuals don't evolve, but the species does? Can you see a similarity of process?
How can you possibly be a detached and analytical personage if you keep believing your group of molecules is above the laws of the universe, and something "special"?
Tsk, tsk. Some evolutionist you are, and a bigoted one at that.

Except the carbon atom C + H2O + N +P + S has a chemical basis of life , not vice versa.
C+H+O+N+P+S= the building blocks of life by chemical reactions.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#136861 Nov 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop with your sexual fantasies, you deviant.
.. I'm sorry. Always thought everyone enjoyed them ..

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#136862 Nov 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
First you claim that atoms evolve. Then you claim that to understand this, we need to know what the "epigenome" is.
Dave...you're all over the place.
Epigenetic markers are not examples of nuclear physics. They work through the properties of chemistry. A methyl group doesn't radioactively decay or fuse into heavier elements.
Seriously, you are spouting nonsense here.
You are remarkably dense.

The carbon atoms contribute to a process that can liberate other carbon atoms from other bindings, or even modify some to form new ones.

Speaking of carbon.

http://www.blazelabs.com/n-transmut.asp

DC electricity. That's EM stuff. Invisible energy.

You would be well served to take a course in electricity and circuitry. Get some experience in circuit design. Seeing how things are connected and flow will contribute to your understanding of the life processes. From there you can get into the intricacies of EM, polarity and charge, and expand your horizons just super exponentially, maybe even resulting in an increase in general knowledge. As it is now you are one each standard bookworm with delusions of understanding. Destined to be nothing more than a shuffler of information flow.

Kaitlin the Wolf Witch

“An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will”

Since: May 10

I Am A Religion-Free Zone

#136863 Nov 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I need to ask others here, since I'm pretty confused.
Anyone: Is Dave writing in English above? Is he making sense or is he drunk?
I can't make sense of what's he's claiming. He seems to be claiming that carbon atoms evolve because genes do and that, because of that individuals evolve and not populations.
So...Is Dave's writing in English and I am simply not good at it or is he drunk or insane?
Dave: atoms aren't clones of each other. They not only don't reproduce themselves, they don't reproduce period. Atoms don't have inheritable traits, they don't make babies. They don't evolve. If you think they do, you either 1) don't understand evolution and never will or 2) are quite mad.
Individuals don't evolve. Their genetic make-up doesn't change within their lifetime (their germline doesn't change and subsequently change their somatic genes). Individuals are units of a population, not populations. I can't make this clearer - if you don't understand...sorry.
Evolution takes place at the level of the gene pool. We can analyze the effects of that (do the math) at the level of genes, chromosomes, gene pools and, very rarely, populations.
Individuals develop, mature, grow. Except by living or dying, they don't alter gene frequencies in gene pools, over time.
At this point, I don't think you can comprehend that. You don't seem to understand what "element" means.
I'm thinking he's drunk. He posts a lot under the pseudonym of "G_O_D" on the "Why I'm No Longer A Christian" thread; he has trouble controling his off-topic rants over there, too.

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#136864 Nov 11, 2012
A salute to all US Veterans!

Also to all Nato Veterans!

Thank you for serving your country!

Kaitlin the Wolf Witch

“An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will”

Since: May 10

I Am A Religion-Free Zone

#136865 Nov 11, 2012
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. I'm sorry. Always thought everyone enjoyed them ..
They'll always get *my* attention, sweet cheeks.

;)

Kaitlin the Wolf Witch

“An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will”

Since: May 10

I Am A Religion-Free Zone

#136866 Nov 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
First you claim that atoms evolve. Then you claim that to understand this, we need to know what the "epigenome" is.
Dave...you're all over the place.
Epigenetic markers are not examples of nuclear physics. They work through the properties of chemistry. A methyl group doesn't radioactively decay or fuse into heavier elements.
Seriously, you are spouting nonsense here.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are remarkably dense.
You are remarkably full of shit.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#136867 Nov 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you've decided to extend your moonbeamery into chemistry, hey? The only thing you have written that makes an ounce of sense is that atoms bind through interactions of charge.
The rest is pure quackery. You claimed that atoms evolved, then substituted non-biological uses of the word "evolved" in, then claimed that because larger molecules take part in the process of evolution, that atoms must therefore evolve - utterly failing to understand how overly- and nonsensically-reductionist you're being, then you claimed that molecular reactions at the level of epigenetics were the result of nuclear physics (when they're simply the result of more chemistry taking place).
So...yeah...
You are quite misinformed with regards to how chemistry works and quite delusional to think you understand it. Perhaps you should read more wikipedia pages?
What I said was for the biological stuff to evolve, the molecular arrangements have to also.It is the molecular arrangements that determine the biological stuff. Period.

The molecules write a bootstrap program that then grows according to rules, rearranging things around it along the way. It eats things and converts energy. The unit then experiences a wider influence of forces and tries to adapt to maintain itself. Successful adaptations can then be written to those original molecules and passed on. Like in those epigenomes.

They do similar with computers.

Kaitlin the Wolf Witch

“An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will”

Since: May 10

I Am A Religion-Free Zone

#136868 Nov 11, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
A salute to all US Veterans!
Also to all Nato Veterans!
Thank you for serving your country!
Semper Fi,*oo*-rah!

But bible god is still nothing more than a myth.

Kaitlin the Wolf Witch

“An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will”

Since: May 10

I Am A Religion-Free Zone

#136869 Nov 11, 2012
And how the hell can non-belief require faith?

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#136870 Nov 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
First you claim that atoms evolve. Then you claim that to understand this, we need to know what the "epigenome" is.
Dave...you're all over the place.
Epigenetic markers are not examples of nuclear physics. They work through the properties of chemistry. A methyl group doesn't radioactively decay or fuse into heavier elements.
Seriously, you are spouting nonsense here.
The way atoms and electron interact is like an ole fashion square dance on a barn floor.

Circle eight and you get straight,
And we’ll all go east on a westbound freight,
And knock down Sal and a pick up Kate,
And we’ll all join hands and circle eight.
Swing your partner ‘round and ‘round,
And turn your corner upside down.
And turn your corner like swingin’ on a gate,
And meet your partner for a grand chain eight,
And hurry up boys and don’t be late.
Chew your tobacco and rub your snuff,
And meet your honey and strut your stuff.
Right foot up and a left foot down,
And make that big foot jar the ground,
And promenade your partner around.
Home little gal and don’t you know,
I like sugar in my coffee-o,
And meet your partner and prom- enade-o,
You can’t get catch a rabbit ‘til it comes snow.
And watch that bedbug fly on the wall,
And promenade your partners all.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's teapot

#136871 Nov 11, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
And how the hell can non-belief require faith?
Well, you see, its the only way they can equate .... never mind.

It's my favorite witch, hi.

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#136872 Nov 11, 2012
Kaitlin the Wolf Witch wrote:
And how the hell can non-belief require faith?
You have asked a very excellent question. All mankind has a measure of faith. Perhaps some like yourself have no faith in a supreme being or belief in God. But you do have faith.

You have faith in evolution based on what you have learned or read. Evolution is the only science that is based largely on speculation and imagination. A theory of sorts that is being taught as a fact. It has missing spans or bridges filled in by speculation and sometimes fraudulent data.

You believe that all life just appeared from thin air. One little puddle that just sort of had a party. From that all life self started and generated. Out of the little puddle comes a Jeep with deep tread off road tires. That is your evolution.

It’s also a science that is full of hype and promoters. Not to mentioned a enforcement arm unlike in any other science. And you believe it with unquestionable faith. So to answer your question. It takes more faith not to believe in God than to believe in God. You have the greater measure of faith.
Knock off purse seller

Portland, OR

#136873 Nov 11, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You have asked a very excellent question. All mankind has a measure of faith. Perhaps some like yourself have no faith in a supreme being or belief in God. But you do have faith.
You have faith in evolution based on what you have learned or read. Evolution is the only science that is based largely on speculation and imagination. A theory of sorts that is being taught as a fact. It has missing spans or bridges filled in by speculation and sometimes fraudulent data.
You believe that all life just appeared from thin air. One little puddle that just sort of had a party. From that all life self started and generated. Out of the little puddle comes a Jeep with deep tread off road tires. That is your evolution.
It’s also a science that is full of hype and promoters. Not to mentioned a enforcement arm unlike in any other science. And you believe it with unquestionable faith. So to answer your question. It takes more faith not to believe in God than to believe in God. You have the greater measure of faith.
U R 1 pathetik aho

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#136874 Nov 11, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
What I said was for the biological stuff to evolve, the molecular arrangements have to also.It is the molecular arrangements that determine the biological stuff. Period.
The molecules write a bootstrap program that then grows according to rules, rearranging things around it along the way. It eats things and converts energy. The unit then experiences a wider influence of forces and tries to adapt to maintain itself. Successful adaptations can then be written to those original molecules and passed on. Like in those epigenomes.
They do similar with computers.
Proven Slime-ball Creationist liar with no proof of god and no understandinf of science or atheism.

Complete and utter waste of forum space.

Since: Mar 11

Scottsburg, IN

#136875 Nov 11, 2012
And right on cue Daffy Duck 12 goes into the tired, lame atheism, evolution and abiogenesis are all the same thing.

Sigh you really are an idiot.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
You have asked a very excellent question. All mankind has a measure of faith. Perhaps some like yourself have no faith in a supreme being or belief in God. But you do have faith.
You have faith in evolution based on what you have learned or read. Evolution is the only science that is based largely on speculation and imagination. A theory of sorts that is being taught as a fact. It has missing spans or bridges filled in by speculation and sometimes fraudulent data.
You believe that all life just appeared from thin air. One little puddle that just sort of had a party. From that all life self started and generated. Out of the little puddle comes a Jeep with deep tread off road tires. That is your evolution.
It’s also a science that is full of hype and promoters. Not to mentioned a enforcement arm unlike in any other science. And you believe it with unquestionable faith. So to answer your question. It takes more faith not to believe in God than to believe in God. You have the greater measure of faith.

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