Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

[TheBlackSheep]

Serah wrote:

<quoted text>you are so far in denial that you won't consider what others are considering!!
***There is a God, leading atheist concludes

Sarah, now tell the truth. You were not allowed to be near your children for how long? Why was that?

[TheBlackSheep]

Serah wrote:

<quoted text>Ever looked at the debate between Francis Collins and Richard Hawking?
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/4047
***Since Francis Collins has now been selected by Obama to head the NIH, we thought readers might be interested to read this debate between Richard Dawkins and Francis Collins from November 2006.- Josh
a little extract...
***DAWKINS: Physicists are working on the Big Bang, and one day they may or may not solve it. However, what Dr. Collins has just been--may I call you Francis?
COLLINS: Oh, please, Richard, do so.
DAWKINS: What Francis was just saying about Genesis was, of course, a little private quarrel between him and his Fundamentalist colleagues ...
COLLINS: It's not so private. It's rather public.[Laughs.]
DAWKINS:... It would be unseemly for me to enter in except to suggest that he'd save himself an awful lot of trouble if he just simply ceased to give them the time of day. Why bother with these clowns?
COLLINS: Richard, I think we don't do a service to dialogue between science and faith to characterize sincere people by calling them names. That inspires an even more dug-in position. Atheists sometimes come across as a bit arrogant in this regard, and characterizing faith as something only an idiot would attach themselves to is not likely to help your case.
TIME: Dr. Collins, the Resurrection is an essential argument of Christian faith, but doesn't it, along with the virgin birth and lesser miracles, fatally undermine the scientific method, which depends on the constancy of natural laws?
COLLINS: If you're willing to answer yes to a God outside of nature, then there's nothing inconsistent with God on rare occasions choosing to invade the natural world in a way that appears miraculous. If God made the natural laws, why could he not violate them when it was a particularly significant moment for him to do so? And if you accept the idea that Christ was also divine, which I do, then his Resurrection is not in itself a great logical leap.
TIME: Doesn't the very notion of miracles throw off science?
COLLINS: Not at all. If you are in the camp I am, one place where science and faith could touch each other is in the investigation of supposedly miraculous events.
DAWKINS: If ever there was a slamming of the door in the face of constructive investigation, it is the word miracle. To a medieval peasant, a radio would have seemed like a miracle. All kinds of things may happen which we by the lights of today's science would classify as a miracle just as medieval science might a Boeing 747. Francis keeps saying things like "From the perspective of a believer." Once you buy into the position of faith, then suddenly you find yourself losing all of your natural skepticism and your scientific--really scientific--credibility. I'm sorry to be so blunt.
COLLINS: Richard, I actually agree with the first part of what you said. But I would challenge the statement that my scientific instincts are any less rigorous than yours. The difference is that my presumption of the possibility of God and therefore the supernatural is not zero, and yours is.****
Yep, in answer to your question, I have heard of Stephen Hawking

Boys and girls; this one is a nutter! Don't be too hard on her.

[lightbeamrider]

Ehrman-Licona Debate. Resurrection of Christ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[Catcher1]

Hidingfromyou wrote:

<quoted text>
He's only a creationist in the sense that he believes a deity created the universe with foreknowledge of what would happen. He wrote a book on evolution and calls people - like yourself - who don't believe in evolution "uneducated." His words. I agree with him on that point.
But I disagree on the others. His belief is an inference. It's not supportable by evidence, but by personal experience interpreted through culture.
For one thing, if you assume that the Christian god created the universe, you have to explain:
1. why that god and not some other one?
2. how is God moral when He Created an evolutionary process that produced parasites that cause immense suffering among human children?
Collins didn't answer those questions. He's not capable of answering those questions - but you're welcome to give it a go.

What about allergies, Hiding?

God created allergies, then he had to give the doctors tools to fight against the allergies.

(Serah is into allergies.)

[Chess Jurist]

Hidingfromyou wrote:

<quoted text>
....
But you're welcome to tell me what you believe and you're invited to produce any kind of evidence for that belief.

It's a trap, Serah!

Don't do it!

She's bring out facts and such.

[lightbeamrider]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Sarah, now tell the truth. You were not allowed to be near your children for how long? Why was that?

Picking on women. You will get yours.

[Catcher1]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Boys and girls; this one is a nutter! Don't be too hard on her.

That's what I say.

Let's have a "be kind to Serah day."

[Richardfs]

Catcher1 wrote:

<quoted text>
13 grandchildren?
Now that's some kind of reality!!
What's the age range?

Kids ---> 24 - 31yrs
Grandkids ----> 10months - 8yrs

Reality, last Saturday we had a wedding rehearsal for my eldest girl and a birthday party for one of my grand daughters.(we came home and slept).

Then Sunday was spent organizing paper work for a new course I am teaching.
(I am standing up therefor I am awake!!!)

[Working for the Lord]

-Skeptic- wrote:

Being a theist is like saying "I reject the proven knowledge behind the car that drives me to work, the computer that lets me do my work and the housing, infrastructure and energy that lets me and others live happily in ignorance."
"Instead I am content to believe that everything in the world is magic and there's no need to thank the thousands of hard working scientists or doctors that allow me and others to live in this ignorant self-inflicted bubble of stupidity".

That makes no sense whhat you're rambling off. Houdini was a magician, not God. Can Houdini raise the dead, of couese not . So you see God is God and Houdini is simply a magician.

[Richardfs]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Boys and girls; this one is a nutter! Don't be too hard on her.

Ooohhhhh, but it's so much fuuunnn.

[Richardfs]

preterism wrote:

<quoted text> That makes no sense whhat you're rambling off. Houdini was a magician, not God. Can Houdini raise the dead, of couese not . So you see God is God and Houdini is simply a magician.

Which god? Ptah?

[Hidingfromyou]

Serah wrote:

<quoted text>Yes; being extremely allergic to many additives and chemicals, including some plastics, makes one very aware of what causes the reactions. Information on the numbers in the ingredients listing on food labeling is easy enough to find, but most people don't really bother, they have faith in those that are making the chemicals and they have faith in those that have legalised it.
If you look at the list of ingredients in the chemicals on sites that give you the info, they will give you the maximum level per item allowed, so that you know how much producers can use, as a maximum.
There is no warning on labels that certain additives have restricted levels as set by the *** http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/consumerinfor... *** so most people do not know that they should limit their intake to the maximum level per item consumed, because that is not the responsibility of the Board or the Supplier; that responsibility lies with the Consumer. Problem is, most Consumers' don't know that they should know what these numbered codes mean to their health....

I would use the words "misplaced trust" here instead of faith, but at least we agree on one thing.

However, your reasons for understanding "it's bad for me" aren't explanatory since they stop at that. Why are food additives bad for you?

The ultimate answer is because we don't have adaptations to deal with them - we didn't evolve with these food additives, so have limited defenses against them.

In fact, people with the greatest sensitivity to industrial pollution and products are being selected against. For those who suffer the worst, their genes are being removed from future generations.

[Catcher1]

lightbeamrider wrote:

<quoted text> Picking on women. You will get yours.

You suck Hiding.

You totally suck.

OK lightbeamrider, happy now?

You know, god's gonna get you for making a false accusation.

You better repent, and fast.

[Serah]

TheBlackSheep wrote:

<quoted text>
Sarah, now tell the truth. You were not allowed to be near your children for how long? Why was that?

What are you talking about?

[Richardfs]

Chess Jurist wrote:

<quoted text>
It's a trap, Serah!
Don't do it!
She's bring out facts and such.

Hiding is a bbbaaaddd girl.

I will spank her later.:)

[Catcher1]

Richardfs wrote:

<quoted text>
Kids ---> 24 - 31yrs
Grandkids ----> 10months - 8yrs
Reality, last Saturday we had a wedding rehearsal for my eldest girl and a birthday party for one of my grand daughters.(we came home and slept).
Then Sunday was spent organizing paper work for a new course I am teaching.
(I am standing up therefor I am awake!!!)

I tip my hat to you, my friend.

[Catcher1]

Richardfs wrote:

<quoted text>
Hiding is a bbbaaaddd girl.
I will spank her later.:)

We need HL.

She's the best spanker of all.

[Aura Mytha]

Hidingfromyou wrote:

<quoted text>
He's only a creationist in the sense that he believes a deity created the universe with foreknowledge of what would happen. He wrote a book on evolution and calls people - like yourself - who don't believe in evolution "uneducated." His words. I agree with him on that point.
But I disagree on the others. His belief is an inference. It's not supportable by evidence, but by personal experience interpreted through culture.
For one thing, if you assume that the Christian god created the universe, you have to explain:
1. why that god and not some other one?
2. how is God moral when He Created an evolutionary process that produced parasites that cause immense suffering among human children?
Collins didn't answer those questions. He's not capable of answering those questions - but you're welcome to give it a go.

The whole driving force behind existence is way too competitive and the history of Earths organisms and evolutionary path
of predation and right down to the nature of sexual reproduction
screams there was nothing intelligent in the design , or that if there were a creator it was one who relished in the suffering of the creation. I think this so much that if there truly were a creator , it is one of such twisted and awful nature that you could only call this thing a monster.

The struggling history of all living creatures and the devastation's of cosmic , volcanic and atmospheric origin
show the plight of all animal life on Earth to be unguided unaided and entirely resting in a uncertain gamble and resting in the throw of the dice.

For this reason I cannot accept there could be an intelligent designer , and if there was it was what creationists would call evil, and must have met it's own demise. But for all intents and purpose a thing of such terrible nature could not be hidden so well, and indeed would manifest itself within it's creation and all would know the terrible nature and wrath of the monster.
But it simply isn't there to be found , therefore it simply cannot exist.

[Serah]

Richardfs wrote:

<quoted text>
You never responded to:-
Let me ask you some questions, there are 30,000+ gods, 32,000 christian sects and 4 billion Hindi gods so:-
1. Which god do you pray to and why?
2. How much reseach did you do to select your god?
3. Why do you think you are right?
and
Who is Richard Hawking?

I pray to the GOD of Abraham; HE that is I AM.
I have been researching GOD as long as I can remember, however, you may note that my avatar name is Serah? Serah is the daughter of Asher, 8th son of Jacob, and I was seeking her for many years and finally found her again (she is mentioned a few times in the Bible) in the Jewish Talmud.

Serah has strong belief in Prayer, and strong Faith in particular, and is still - here, as a copy and paste troll, I will do exactly that...

***Serah bat Asher was a granddaughter of the biblical patriarch Jacob (Genesis 46:17). A cave and synagogue connected with her in central Iran, 30 kilometers (18.5 miles) west of Isfahan, near a village called P&#299;r Bakr&#257;n in the area of Linj&#257;n, has become one of the holiest places of Iranian Jewry and an important pilgrimage destination.

Legend explains how Serah ended up so far from the land of her forefathers and why this place is so holy for Jews.

http://www.paulyonline.brill.nl/entries/encyc... ***

***Serah did indeed "span the generations" from biblical times until today. The ancient rabbis went so far as to boldly claim that Serah never died. She does indeed live on in the many legends that generations of Jews have told about her. The separate strands of tradition about this immortal lady of legend still beckon to be retold and reunited. This "wise woman," from among the first generations of our people, is again becoming a living presence among us as we recount her story in our day. For Jews of today, Serah bat Asher serves as a traditional model for our contemporary women leaders, imbued with worldly wisdom, Torah learning, and spiritual power.

http://huc.edu/faculty/faculty/pubs/pbregman.... ***

It is easy to understand why I lost Serah; being that she is Jewish, but I was very happy to make her acquaintance again and can understand why I was so very drawn to her.

Take that as you will; we each have challenges in life and I am very happy following my Spiritual pathway, it has led me to some amazing moments. I hope that you too, have some of those spine chilling, goose bump feelings that come just from being in the right spot at the right time.... deja vu if you will :)

[Serah]

Oh, I forgot to reply that Richard Hawking is an atheist.... of renowned fame.