Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129595 Oct 14, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I do. You just don't like how I dumb it down to a cartoon-like story of bullshit.
Evolution has been proven that it can happen, but it hasn't and probably can't be proven that it happened the way the evolutionary theorists have desribed.
I'm sorry that your mind is so closed that you can't fathom any other possibility...
You "dumb it down" to a state of utter misrepresentation. Once again you are being dishonest in presenting yourself as someone who understands evolution - every post you talk about it you display gross ignorance. Like the one above.

You talking of my mind being closed when you believe in a fantasy, are guided by that fantasy and will undertake anything, including deceit, to support it.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129596 Oct 14, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
How long were you in the nut house?
you are so far in denial that you won't consider what others are considering!!

***There is a God, leading atheist concludes

A gradual conversion
Flew first made his mark with the 1950 article “Theology and Falsification,” based on a paper for the Socratic Club, a weekly Oxford religious forum led by the writer and Christian thinker C.S. Lewis.

Over the years, Flew proclaimed the lack of evidence for God while teaching at Oxford, Aberdeen, Keele and Reading universities in Britain, in visits to numerous U.S. and Canadian campuses and in books, articles, lectures and debates.
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There was no one moment of change but a gradual conclusion over recent months for Flew, a spry man who still does not believe in an afterlife.

Yet biologists’ investigation of DNA “has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce [life], that intelligence must have been involved,” Flew says in the new video,“Has Science Discovered God?”

The video draws from a discussion last May in New York organized by author Roy Abraham Varghese’s Institute for Metascientific Research in Garland, Texas. Participants were Flew; Varghese; Israeli physicist Gerald Schroeder, an Orthodox Jew; and Roman Catholic philosopher John Haldane of the University of St. Andrews in Scotland.

‘Follow the evidence, wherever it leads’
The first hint of Flew’s turn was a letter in the August-September issue of Britain’s Philosophy Now magazine.“It has become inordinately difficult even to begin to think about constructing a naturalistic theory of the evolution of that first reproducing organism,” he wrote.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/ns/world_... ***

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129597 Oct 14, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Selection pressures? lol If that were true, why are there still fish in swamps? In low-flow rivers? Why to trout still swim upstream in sometimes very shallow water to lay eggs when they should've "evolved" a better way by now....
Wow - look at what religion did to your ability to grasp how biology works!

And you claimed to understand evolution?!? Your statement here couldn't be more ignorant if you tried - very clearly you haven't got the first clue about evolution, biology or science. You're just babbling.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129598 Oct 14, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
So closed? What evidence have you provided to the contrary? Goddidit? I know 'cause he touched Me! That is not evidence.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
It is evidence to me.
Prove you love your mom.
I'll wait.
This is why you don't understand science. You fail to discriminate between subjective and objective experiences.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129599 Oct 14, 2012
If scientists cannot explain the evolution of the first reproducing organism, who else can?

****The way many try to show God doesn't exist is simply by asserting it, but that's not proof. It isn't even evidence. Scientists sometimes get away with this by requiring that scientific law--natural law--must explain everything. If it can't explain a supernatural act or a supernatural Being then neither can exist. This is cheating, though.

Scientists haven't proven God doesn't exist; they've merely assumed it in many cases. They've foisted this truism on the public, and then operated from that point of view. They act as if they've really said something profound, when all they've done is given you an unjustified opinion.

http://www.str.org/site/News2... ***

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129600 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow - look at what religion did to your ability to grasp how biology works!
And you claimed to understand evolution?!? Your statement here couldn't be more ignorant if you tried - very clearly you haven't got the first clue about evolution, biology or science. You're just babbling.
you might be the relative of a monkey or a large bald fishy trying to sprout hair, but don't shove your delight onto us.... we are very happy being the ancestors of people. your DNA must be way out of whack to think you came from a fishy donchathink?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129601 Oct 14, 2012
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>
Everyone who is seriously engaged in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that the laws of nature manifest the existence of a spirit vastly superior to that of men, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.
http://www.faithinterface.com.au/science-chri...
No, we do not.

You are content with intellectual laziness. You are fine with "god did it" - but all that leads to is a full stop on knowledge production.

But you won't understand this.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129602 Oct 14, 2012
Martina Navratilover wrote:
<quoted text>Since most scientists are not atheists, then you must say that you are full of it.
FACTS: A survey conducted in 1969 showed that 35% of scientists did not believe that God existed.2 In contrast, recent surveys on religious belief have shown that 90 percent of Americans believe in God and 40 percent attend a place of worship weekly. 100 MINUS 35 = 65% WHO BELIEVE.
IN FACT, IN ANY GIVEN FIELD, THE HIGHEST PERCENT WAS 41 AND THE LOWEST 27% WHO DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. FLIPS THE NUMBERS AND YOU WILL SEE HWO MANY BELIEVE.
Overall, 75% of professors contacted completed the survey. Among the different disciplines, disbelief in the existence of God was not correlated with any particular area of expertise:
Disbelief in God by Academics4Discipline %
Physics 40.8
Chemistry 26.6
Biology 41.0
Overall 37.6
Sociology 34.0
Economics 31.7
Political Science 27.0
Psychology 33.0
Overall 31.2
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_...

Need I say more?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#129603 Oct 14, 2012
Martina Navratilover wrote:
Since most scientists are not atheists, then you must say that you are full of it.
FACTS: A survey conducted in 1969 showed that 35% of scientists did not believe that God existed.
1969? Seriously? You do realize that beliefs have changed over time in the last few decades.

In a *2009* Pew Research Center poll, only *33%* of scientists claimed to believe in God. And when you ask only physicists and astronomers, that percentage falls to 29%.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129604 Oct 14, 2012
Martina Navratilover wrote:
<quoted text>SO,NOW YOU ADMIT, that you are Belia or satan. He tried to tell Jesus to do similar things for his amusement. Why don't you read the 3 temptations of Christ by satan, if you wanted to know? Clue, it is found in the New Testament.
Listen, sock, Satan, in that story, only wanted to temp jesus; that is not what I am asking for. I am asking you to glorify god the father, much like Elijah did. Surely god loves me enough for that!

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129605 Oct 14, 2012
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>hahahahaha.....
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/scie...
from the past...
Francis Sellers Collins (born April 14, 1950), is an American physician-geneticist noted for his discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the Human Genome Project (HGP). He currently serves as Director of the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Prior to being appointed Director, he was the founder and president of the BioLogos Foundation, an organization which promotes discourse on the relationship between science and religion and advocates the perspective that belief in Christianity can be reconciled with acceptance of evolution and science.[1] Collins also wrote the New York Times bestseller, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief, which discusses Collins' conversion from atheism to Christianity, evaluates the evidence for Christianity, and argues for theistic evolution.[2] In 2009 Pope Benedict XVI appointed Collins to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins
from the present....
and there are a lot of scientists in between that I guess you are ignorant of.... learn a little before you laugh at others IQ's
Why do godbots have to lie all the time:-

1. I said "godbots" and "creationists" but you want to extend that to all religious people.

2. Einstein made his comments long before COBE.

3. Oh gee! one scientist became a theist. How many are leaving religion?

The tone of your post sets you as just another bibull thumping godbot who thinks they can convert atheists into godbots.

You will complain that people don't respect you and yours is the one true god.

BTW Why is it you godbots can not find a quote from a current Physicist to support you pathetic claims? Why do you always have go back 100+ years to find a statement?

Oh! that's right because COBE blew you guys right out of the water.

Let me ask you some questions, there are 30,000+ gods, 32,000 christian sects and 4 billion Hindi gods so:-

1. Which god do you pray to and why?
2. How much reseach did you do to select your god?
3. Why do you think you are right?

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129606 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
This is why you don't understand science. You fail to discriminate between subjective and objective experiences.
***Richard Feynman

Richard Feynman, Nobel prize in physics in 1965, was a very unusual person. He said some 9 years before receiving the Nobel prize, "Many scientists do believe in both science and God, the God of revelation, in a perfectly consistent way." So is it possible to be a scientist and a Christian? Yes according to Richard Feynman.

A good summary statement in this regard is by Alan Lightman, who has written a very well–received book called Origins. He's an M.I.T. professor who has published this book with Harvard University Press. He says,

References to God continued in the scientific literature until the middle to late 1800's. It seems likely that the lack of religious references after this time seem more from a change in social and professional conventions among scientists rather than from any change in underlying thought. Indeed, contrary to popular myth, scientists appear to have the same range of attitudes about religious matters as does the general public.

Now one could regard that statement as strictly anecdotal. Americans love statistics. Here's the result of a poll of the professional society Sigma Zi. Three thousand three hundred responded, so this is certainly beyond statistical uncertainty. The headline says, "Scientists are anchored in the U. S. mainstream." It says that half participate in religious activities regularly. Looking at the poll is that 43% of Ph.D. scientists are in church on a typical Sunday. In the American public, 44% are in church on a typical Sunday. So it's clear that whatever it is that causes people to have religious inclinations is unrelated to having an advanced degree in science.

http://english.sdaglobal.org/research/sctstbe... ***

Why do you think scientists don't believe in GOD? Tell the scientists that do believe in GOD that you think they are lying and debate it with them, but don't discriminate and accuse others of discrimination, that is very hypocritical

Urban Dictionary: hypocrite
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php...
(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to them.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129607 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we do not.
You are content with intellectual laziness. You are fine with "god did it" - but all that leads to is a full stop on knowledge production.
But you won't understand this.
you are the one who lazily accepts what you were told.... and GOD did what? Why am I so happy with that answer that I won't research?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129608 Oct 14, 2012
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>I'd like to know how much time they think it took for a little or big old fishy to grow eyelashes, eyebrows & ears. Did they do this under water? Did their lungs develop under water - requiring them to breathe air and not suck water through their gills or did they clumsily thrash around on land until they grew legs and arms? Were they hairy eyelashing eyebrowing fishies waiting patiently for their legs to grow so they could walk? How long do they think it took for this hairy fish to walk? What did they eat in the meantime? Have they thought about anything logical??
So do the research. Build a hypothesis and start testing. To answer your questions, we need to go about it two ways: fossils or a better understanding of genetics.

Eyebrows didn't appear until hair evolved and that was with the first mammals. So quite a bit after fish. You can learn more here:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/...

This article discusses the evolution of the neck joints. If you could understand it, you'd understand why complex traits take a long time to evolve: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/...

Lungs evolved to deal with air. It took a very long time. The mistake you're making is to jump over tons of steps. You're are falsely equating "growth" with evolution. Lungs didn't pop into existence over night - they were selected for one mutation at a time.

Here is an abstract of research into how lungs evolved:

http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/2/73...

But we both know you don't care for the answers. The questions you ask demonstrates you having got any background in biological science. It's all quite nonsense to you.

So you parade your ignorance as support for your strange religion, compounding argument fallacy upon argument fallacy.

This is why there's no such thing as a "creationist scientist."

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#129609 Oct 14, 2012
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>you might be the relative of a monkey or a large bald fishy trying to sprout hair, but don't shove your delight onto us.... we are very happy being the ancestors of people. your DNA must be way out of whack to think you came from a fishy donchathink?
You might feel more at home with the other rocks in the geology thread.

"I didn't come from sediment! I've always been a rock!"

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129610 Oct 14, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do godbots have to lie all the time:-
1. I said "godbots" and "creationists" but you want to extend that to all religious people.
2. Einstein made his comments long before COBE.
3. Oh gee! one scientist became a theist. How many are leaving religion?
The tone of your post sets you as just another bibull thumping godbot who thinks they can convert atheists into godbots.
You will complain that people don't respect you and yours is the one true god.
BTW Why is it you godbots can not find a quote from a current Physicist to support you pathetic claims? Why do you always have go back 100+ years to find a statement?
Oh! that's right because COBE blew you guys right out of the water.
Let me ask you some questions, there are 30,000+ gods, 32,000 christian sects and 4 billion Hindi gods so:-
1. Which god do you pray to and why?
2. How much reseach did you do to select your god?
3. Why do you think you are right?
Thank you for considering me a GODbot...

One Scientist became a theist? One? LOL.... come back when you have read up on the topic and you might sound a bit like you know what you are talking about...

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129611 Oct 14, 2012
Serah wrote:
Why do you think scientists don't believe in GOD? Tell the scientists that do believe in GOD that you think they are lying and debate it with them, but don't discriminate and accuse others of discrimination, that is very hypocritical
Urban Dictionary: hypocrite
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php...
(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to them.
1. I didn't say that no scientist believes in God.

2. I said the reason RR can't understand science is b/c of his inability to understand what subjective versus objective reality is.

Some Christians are scientists. But no creationists are scientists. It's impossible to be that ignorant and dishonest while remaining a scientist.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129612 Oct 14, 2012
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>you are the one who lazily accepts what you were told.... and GOD did what? Why am I so happy with that answer that I won't research?
Hardly. You were told "god did it" and that's as far as you got. You've accepted a fiction, intellectual laziness and built your entire understanding of the world on it.
Totally worthless.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129613 Oct 14, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do godbots have to lie all the time?
Because that's all they can handle. Honest knowledge and study is too hard for them. They'd rather just deceive themselves and others through intellectual dishonesty than actually have to learn something.

They really are like parasites - enjoying all of the benefits of science while failing to understand even the slightest bit of it.

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#129614 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So do the research. Build a hypothesis and start testing. To answer your questions, we need to go about it two ways: fossils or a better understanding of genetics.
Eyebrows didn't appear until hair evolved and that was with the first mammals. So quite a bit after fish. You can learn more here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/...
This article discusses the evolution of the neck joints. If you could understand it, you'd understand why complex traits take a long time to evolve: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/...
Lungs evolved to deal with air. It took a very long time. The mistake you're making is to jump over tons of steps. You're are falsely equating "growth" with evolution. Lungs didn't pop into existence over night - they were selected for one mutation at a time.
Here is an abstract of research into how lungs evolved:
http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/2/73...
But we both know you don't care for the answers. The questions you ask demonstrates you having got any background in biological science. It's all quite nonsense to you.
So you parade your ignorance as support for your strange religion, compounding argument fallacy upon argument fallacy.
This is why there's no such thing as a "creationist scientist."
Tell these Scientists they don't exist lol.... what a crack up this forum is!!

*** http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/CMI_list_of_scie...

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