Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#129507 Oct 14, 2012
Being a theist is like saying "I reject the proven knowledge behind the car that drives me to work, the computer that lets me do my work and the housing, infrastructure and energy that lets me and others live happily in ignorance."

"Instead I am content to believe that everything in the world is magic and there's no need to thank the thousands of hard working scientists or doctors that allow me and others to live in this ignorant self-inflicted bubble of stupidity".

Since: Mar 11

Florence, KY

#129508 Oct 14, 2012
So when Jephtha tied his daughter down and lot her screaming on fire she went to heaven?
preterism wrote:
<quoted text> To allege that the God of the Bible is some sort of “monster” for ordering Israel to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan exhibits an ignorance of biblical teaching. Those inhabitants were destroyed because of their wickedness (Deuteronomy 9:4; 18:9-14). They were so evil that their Creator no longer could abide their corruption. That they had numerous opportunities to repent is evident from the prophetic books (Nineveh did repent, for example, and for a time stayed the day of destruction). Complaining about Jehovah’s order to destroy innocent children is a vain gesture when one realizes that the children were spared an even worse fate of being reared as slaves under the domination of sin. Instead of having to endure the scourge of a life of immorality and wickedness, these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise. If the male children had been allowed to mature, they most likely would have followed the pagan ways of their forefathers, and eventually would have taken vengeance on the Israelites. Killing the males not only prevented them from falling into the same abominable sins as their parents, but also kept Israel from having to battle them later. Just like the children in Noah's time when God destroyed all but eight these children would of grown up to be as there parents, because evil was the norm, so that meant these children didn't have a chance so it was better for the children to die and go to heaven thsn grow up and go to hell, don't you agree?

Since: Mar 11

Florence, KY

#129509 Oct 14, 2012
Well now doesn't Dave's hard work with magnets and strings in his garage count for something?:))

He looks up to Cassandra Peterson as a sweet chaste gal who didn't need to pose naked to make her way into the lime light.

Lol!
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. We can dismiss that guy for not having produced a testable model. He just made stuff up - kind of like you do.
:)
I can see why you like him.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129510 Oct 14, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>LOl- your "tend to run in herds"......... You're dumb.
Derp.
That phrase was copied directly from Dave. I'm glad you agree with me, that it isn't appropriate to use with people.

See, Dave, our troll calls you dumb.:)
:)
:)
Loren Eberly

Mount Vernon, OH

#129511 Oct 14, 2012
FDR Social Security Program:

The majority of 53% of US the Government of this Representative Republic that vote and the 47% nonvoters that sit on their dead hands and whine; insist on electing President, Governor, Representatives of US the Government, County Commissioners, Township Trustees, Mayors, City Council, School Administrators and Board Members.

That support FDR Social Security Program designed to defy USA Labor Law, The Constitution, and demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce and common sense demands.

Demanding every Stockholder, corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; of every worker, consumer, and taxpayer's wages (union contract), healthcare, pension, investment and independent business profit. This enables every worker, consumer, and taxpayer to pay healthcare insurance premium or pay healthcare provider.

Pay ALL taxes and pay for every product and service they use for life. With money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit. And enables every parent to educate, love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide; for every child (job) they conceive. And fund schools, infrastructure, local and national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages, investment profit, and independent business profit.

President, the Justices they appoint, and Elected Officials hold Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and America’s grandchildren’s children, Government employees, Parents, Teachers, Veterans, Police, Firemen, and Fathers disqualified for affirmative action with white skin, Representatives deny Collective Bargaining Rights accountable.

To fund Illegal drug users and Immigrants, lottery, casino, and keno losers, unemployed Union workers replaced with nonunion workers, Human Traffickers, waitresses that pander for life for $2.00 per hour, slaves in enterprise zones, low-income child labor, consumers, and taxpayers, volunteers without wages, and nonunion workers willing to work for fewer wages than they can afford life. That pays with welfare checks, food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.

Pay sales tax on the more stock dividends (money) OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders (money marketers) market quarterly. In the wholesale and retail price of every product and service Human Beings use for life. And School Boards and Government needs to build, maintain and operate schools, infrastructure, and provide local and national security, and Government services. That gets only product or service.

Needed to measure and maintain the strength and growth of this UNAFFORDABLE economy and distribute money Human Beings cannot digest, burn in internal combustion engines, or burn to heat and cool their American Dream. Into OPEC Nations, Enron Stockholders, Wal-Mart Stockholders, Hillarys, Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders portfolios.

Defying USA Labor Law, the Constitution, and Realities demands is bankrupting USA. Makes free, fair, and affordable commerce IMPOSSIBLE; Makes funding schools IMPOSSIBLE; Makes balancing every budget IMPOSSIBLE; Makes Union workers, consumers, taxpayers, and Americas grandchildren's children life UNAFFORDABLE; and created Ohio’s $1.35 trillion budget deficit, the $40 trillion social security and the $16 trillion national debt. America’s grandchildren’s children are responsible to pay Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders interest with this debt until they are 18 years old.

America’s grandchildren’s children cannot pay this debt in a hundred million years.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#129512 Oct 14, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't have her!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Grrr! Grrrrrr!
Here, try this.

*12-gauge*

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129513 Oct 14, 2012
timn17 wrote:
1) You demand that for us to accept naturalistic explanations for the universe, that we must literally, physically observe every single event for which we are making a claim.
Believe it is what actual Science requires.
Why don't you apply these same ridiculous standards to your own beliefs?
Actual Science demands are ridiculous? Never mind that. I have repeatedly stated evidence for physical resurrection is in historical accounts and church history. The claim has been the same for close to 2000 years. Christ resurrected.
2) Oh, wait, that's why. You automatically and categorically rule out any opinion or statement of fact if it does not first acknowledge the "truth" of your beliefs. That is a horribly ignorant way to think.
As it relates to resurrection of Christ. Methinks you are projecting your ignorance of historic Christianity on me. Persons who deny the resurrection of Christ are simply not Christian. That is basic historical Christianity. Your statement is akin to equating a counterfeit 20 dollar bill to an actual 20 dollar bill. Both of equal value and if not then it is a ''horribly ignorant way to think.''
3) This is yet another shining example of the lengths you go to trick yourself into belief. Sad.
This little gem is in response to my statement, they (atheists) will go to absurd extremes to explain it all absent intelligence. It all happened naturally...'' Your statement is more of an assertion than an argument. Another example of the way atheists validation has to do with (ECREE) Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. This is more rhetorical than a rule of logic. It allows atheist to raise the bar for Christian claims while lowering the bar for themselves.

http://religiousapriori.blogspot.com/2010/01/...

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129514 Oct 14, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Believe it is what actual Science requires. <quoted text> Actual Science demands are ridiculous? Never mind that. I have repeatedly stated evidence for physical resurrection is in historical accounts and church history. The claim has been the same for close to 2000 years. Christ resurrected.
<quoted text> As it relates to resurrection of Christ. Methinks you are projecting your ignorance of historic Christianity on me. Persons who deny the resurrection of Christ are simply not Christian. That is basic historical Christianity. Your statement is akin to equating a counterfeit 20 dollar bill to an actual 20 dollar bill. Both of equal value and if not then it is a ''horribly ignorant way to think.''
<quoted text> This little gem is in response to my statement, they (atheists) will go to absurd extremes to explain it all absent intelligence. It all happened naturally...'' Your statement is more of an assertion than an argument. Another example of the way atheists validation has to do with (ECREE) Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. This is more rhetorical than a rule of logic. It allows atheist to raise the bar for Christian claims while lowering the bar for themselves.
http://religiousapriori.blogspot.com/2010/01/...
Still living in never never land. Don't worry one day you will grow up.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129515 Oct 14, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Well, confession time, I have a gay prison crush on boooots. He just bores me into deep sexual feelings.
GK, SD, Viking, Lie-person, whatever, we all know that. Boooots doesn't feel the same way toward you, though, but I'm sure he's flattered all the same.

:)

Don't feel bad. There is a man out there for you. You just have to learn how to pick them up - something we can all help you with. Here's Hiding's how to attract men. Advice #1:

- Look pretty. It works for both straights and gays. Good luck!

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129516 Oct 14, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Believe it is what actual Science requires.
This has the potential for an interesting discussion - the trick is to do so without succumbing to religious nonsense.

Ok, so how does science require belief?

(and I'm not goading you here - I've written about that subject on this very forum.)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129517 Oct 14, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Actual Science demands are ridiculous? Never mind that. I have repeatedly stated evidence for physical resurrection is in historical accounts and church history. The claim has been the same for close to 2000 years. Christ resurrected.
No, he didn't. You just have a fairy tale. All religions have their miracles. It's convenient of you to believe in yours, but no one elses.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129518 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
This has the potential for an interesting discussion - the trick is to do so without succumbing to religious nonsense.
Ok, so how does science require belief?
(and I'm not goading you here - I've written about that subject on this very forum.)
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)

lightbeamrider is so ignorant and befuddled by all branches of science that it is all magic to her.

Consequently she can only conclude that those of us who actually work in the field do so out religious conviction.

But ALL godbots make the same assumption. To them trying to teach them anything is like asking them to convert to a new religion.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129519 Oct 14, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
lightbeamrider is so ignorant and befuddled by all branches of science that it is all magic to her.
Consequently she can only conclude that those of us who actually work in the field do so out religious conviction.
But ALL godbots make the same assumption. To them trying to teach them anything is like asking them to convert to a new religion.
Your last sentence totally sums up almost every conversation I've had with creationists. They're impossibly ignorant and unable to learn.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#129523 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
What was I supposed to say? You wanted to conjecture. Go right ahead.
I asked "what part of humanity is under selection pressure?" By selection pressure, I mean where people are so stressed, biologically, perhaps because of social factors, that they cannot reproduce. Or that reproduction is very difficult and only a few can. If you find this zone, in any species, that is where evolution is taking place, where genes (in individuals) are actively being removed - "selected against."
Criticism:
- Are the wealthy actually less able to have children?
- You're "tend to run in herds" is kind of silly. Humans are a social species who, basically, don't mind "gene flow" with any other human group, given the opportunity.
- Uh...your "excess EM" is too vague. Do you have any idea how it can affect the human body?
I do
:p
:P
:P
You sure can ramble.

Guess I answered your question without understanding what you were looking for.

I said more affluent. That can be middle class and above.

Those that are striving for an elevated position in life will be putting having children in the background, and while not abstaining will exercise more discretion and ingest chemicals, some of which the long term effects on the body are not known. They will also tend to have children later in life, where those effects may show up. The pollutants of modern life have more time to work on them before breeding.

But you have others breeding like crazy. One reason for baby Mommas and Daddies in this society. Some children damaged by drug use.

Then you have the emergence of homosexuality on such a large scale.

The intelligence of humans will survive, but the schools of thought they have produced will fade away. You are looking at a collapse of civilization unless some strong religion emerges to keep order.

Cellphones at the ear put your brain right in the maximum magnetic flow of them, which induces electrical currents that work directly on neurons in the brain. They can and will rearrange the circuitry. Such is picked up from all around, but those are really concentrated. Talk about random chance for mutations. However, the risk of that EM is more to the brain circuitry than the body. You are affecting the processor more than the parts.

Funny, texting is safer than talking with those things.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129524 Oct 14, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
You sure can ramble.
Total projection.
Guess I answered your question without understanding what you were looking for.
Yes, on some accounts.
I said more affluent. That can be middle class and above.
Those that are striving for an elevated position in life will be putting having children in the background, and while not abstaining will exercise more discretion and ingest chemicals, some of which the long term effects on the body are not known. They will also tend to have children later in life, where those effects may show up. The pollutants of modern life have more time to work on them before breeding.
If:

1. populations were isolated by class and
2. if middle class and higher were universally having children at older ages and
3. if this continued for hundreds to thousands of years then the average lifespan would increase among these populations (well, that part of it due to genetic factors).

If chemicals are having an additive effect on people (and they are), then we shall see selective pressures against those who are genetically vulnerable to industrial pollution - provided their vulnerability leads them to have increased difficulties reproducing relative to others.
But you have others breeding like crazy. One reason for baby Mommas and Daddies in this society. Some children damaged by drug use.
These confounding factors, and gene flow, make it difficult to comment on all but the extremes of human society. You haven't gotten there yet in your speculation.
Then you have the emergence of homosexuality on such a large scale.
It's likely insignificant. For it to have a selective effect, it would have to be 1) long lasting (thousands of years), 2) due to genetics (and more strongly if fewer genes were involved) and, importantly, 3) impair the ability of the individuals to reproduce.

Since homosexuals aren't necessarily exclusive in their sexual behavior, since it's a sexual identity and therefore a culturally expressed behavior, it likely won't last long enough or prevent individuals from having children. Let's say that 100% of homosexuals didn't reproduce - and then the culture changes along with the sexual identity in, just making this up for example, 200 years. It would have had almost no effect on human evolution.
The intelligence of humans will survive, but the schools of thought they have produced will fade away. You are looking at a collapse of civilization unless some strong religion emerges to keep order.
I strongly disagree here. Religion has already bowed out to organized civil society. Strong government is a better choice for your above scenario.
Cellphones at the ear put your brain right in the maximum magnetic flow of them, which induces electrical currents that work directly on neurons in the brain. They can and will rearrange the circuitry. Such is picked up from all around, but those are really concentrated. Talk about random chance for mutations. However, the risk of that EM is more to the brain circuitry than the body. You are affecting the processor more than the parts.
Funny, texting is safer than talking with those things.
You are so close here, Dave! The EM from the cell phone use doesn't (seem to) alter the circuitry. What it alters is the seal of the blood brain barrier (BBB). The BBB prevents large molecules, and the immune system, from entering the brain. Thus, almost no pathogen species can enter. It's an immunologically secure area - testicles, too.

However, if you subject the brain to a strong magnetic field, the BBB opens.

People develop cancer relatively often. It is almost always killed b/c their immune systems (IS) work well. But, if the BBB just happens to be open when a cancerous cell is floating in the blood stream before it gets destroyed by the IS, it can get into the brain and enjoy immunological freedom. It can subsequently fully develop.

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129525 Oct 14, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
God and some middle eastern man are going around touching men!?!? WTF?
heh.

"touching" only means one thing to an atheist, huh?

Since: Oct 12

Belfast, UK

#129526 Oct 14, 2012
What rubbish, Athiests don't spend time NOT believing, they just don't. The bible is seriously flawed, as it mentions Dragons and stuff like that, plus, i could 'prove' that Sovngarde exists as you go there in The Elder srolls V: Skyrim. So don't take the oldest fantasy novel too literally. A FACT about the bible is that it was written by Romans who wanted to control the population, after the executed the Buddhist preacher, Jesus Christ. So they invented all these stories to put fear in the population, so they wouldn't question the church. For example, if you (insert crime here) you go to hell, but if you confess, we'll execute you, but you get to live forever in paradise. Also, I never understood that if God is all forgiving, why does he lock you up in a firey proson cell with Satan/Lucifer?

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129527 Oct 14, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So I guess I am just debating someone who is going to be a smartass and use childish cliches. And yet you wish for us to take you seriously?


I don't care if you take me seriously. In fact, because I'm no big fan of the way science had "figured out" evolution, most people hear think I'm ignorant. When I say the ignorant one is the blind follower. Science has been wrong countless times. They may be wrong this time, too.
I do not think anyone in the scientific community claims a fully formed leg came from a species that has no legs.


Then why do they think all life came from the sea. ONE of them would've had to sprout legs.... The thing is, the scientific community swears by evolution even theough they can't explain it.
The way you explain this shows you have a cartoon version of evolution in your mind.
No. The way I explain it is an accurate depiction of the way evolution is spelled out by the general concensus of the scientific community.

One cell turned into fish that grew legs
but not all grew legs, some stayed as fish
and the one that grew legs mated with itself & populated land
then some decided to frow fur
while others decided to keep the scales
then some with scales decided to grow to a massive size
while others stayed small
then the earth got very cold
and the ones that kept scales died off
and the ones that grew fur sruvived but were small
so some decided to get bigger
while others remained small
then some decided to walk on 2 legs
while others thought 4 legs were better
then some decided to start talking & drawing
while others kept to instinct only
oh, and there were still some that kept scales and/or wings.
then McDonalds opened & the furry mammals started to get fat.

whew!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#129528 Oct 14, 2012
?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#129529 Oct 14, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
edited fro reply space.

If:
1. populations were isolated by class and
2. if middle class and higher were universally having children at older ages and
3. if this continued for hundreds to thousands of years then the average lifespan would increase among these populations (well, that part of it due to genetic factors).
If chemicals are having an additive effect on people (and they are), then we shall see selective pressures against those who are genetically vulnerable to industrial pollution - provided their vulnerability leads them to have increased difficulties reproducing relative to others.
<quoted text>
These confounding factors, and gene flow, make it difficult to comment on all but the extremes of human society. You haven't gotten there yet in your speculation.
<quoted text>
It's likely insignificant. For it to have a selective effect, it would have to be 1) long lasting (thousands of years), 2) due to genetics (and more strongly if fewer genes were involved) and, importantly, 3) impair the ability of the individuals to reproduce.
Since homosexuals aren't necessarily exclusive in their sexual behavior, since it's a sexual identity and therefore a culturally expressed behavior, it likely won't last long enough or prevent individuals from having children. Let's say that 100% of homosexuals didn't reproduce - and then the culture changes along with the sexual identity in, just making this up for example, 200 years. It would have had almost no effect on human evolution.
<quoted text>
I strongly disagree here. Religion has already bowed out to organized civil society. Strong government is a better choice for your above scenario.
<quoted text>
You are so close here, Dave! The EM from the cell phone use doesn't (seem to) alter the circuitry. What it alters is the seal of the blood brain barrier (BBB). The BBB prevents large molecules, and the immune system, from entering the brain. Thus, almost no pathogen species can enter. It's an immunologically secure area - testicles, too.
However, if you subject the brain to a strong magnetic field, the BBB opens.
People develop cancer relatively often. It is almost always killed b/c their immune systems (IS) work well. But, if the BBB just happens to be open when a cancerous cell is floating in the blood stream before it gets destroyed by the IS, it can get into the brain and enjoy immunological freedom. It can subsequently fully develop.
http://www.lloyds.com/~/media/Lloyds/Reports/...

Go to page 6.

The studies are based upon causing cancer. Plus the studies are limited in scope and short term. Economic considerations may be the reason.

The simple fact is as referenced in that is you have that magnetic field passing through your head. It is a closed field and full strength. You are in the flow, and not catching the waves like you do from radio and other sources. An analogy would be your being the object being struck by light rays, catching the full force of its energies, versus catching the reduced reflections and heat. Reflected light is dispersed over a greater area, thus weaker.

This EMF, which gain is full force for the device, works on a frequency, which means the magnetic field builds and falls, which induces electrical currents in the salts and other conductive portions of your body, and a static charge in the non-conductive portions. These will have an effect on the electrical balance of all matter within the body coming into contact. You are setting up potentials that can rearrange molecules. This is basic physics. It happens. You are putting stress on the original design. You are greatly increasing the chance of random mutations.

What I am trying to point out is the increased stress on the mental processes brought about by the increased variation of frequencies and strength of magnetic fields that did not exist until recent times.

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