Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#129337 Oct 13, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, you are wrong. Your statement of falsehood, in an attempt to recover your loss does not become valid, by simply seeking unverifiable consensus.
And neither does your quoting Aquinas demonstrate your views are correct. The arguments Aquinas gave were faulty: they did not prove what he claimed.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#129338 Oct 13, 2012
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
the ware christian and what ever you say doesn't change it and the christian churches approved of it all
There is only one church , that is the Church of Christ. God being pure love is incapable of doing anything evil. Just as heat is the absence of cold so is Love the absence of evil. My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,Ē says the Lord.

ďAnd my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.

9For just as the heavens are higher than the earth,

so my ways are higher than your ways

and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. Reas your bible and read Acts chapter 1 and 2 and you will see how and when the Church of Christ started and how your to worship him. Romans 16:16 Mark 16:16

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129339 Oct 13, 2012
preterism wrote:
Some people feel they are smarter than God and of course God has a reply to that, which is, My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,Ē says the Lord.
ďAnd my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.
9For just as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so my ways are higher than your ways
and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.
Exodus 21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.

2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.

4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#129340 Oct 13, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Many uncaused causes just pushes things back. You still need an original cause.
Wrong. It is quite possible to have many uncaused causes and your argument fails to show otherwise. It doesn't 'push things back' because those uncaused causes are, um, uncaused.
Infinity does not exist in reality.
Proof?
From nothing comes nothing. Nothing cannot produse anything.
Never heard of quantum fluctuations, huh?
Design does not need intelligence is an illogical assumption. To have design you need intelligence.
No, my pint is that complexity doesn't require an intelligence. Not all complexity is designed.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#129341 Oct 13, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Uncreated outside time and space.
Why not many things uncreated outside of space and time?
In math if you have an infinite number of days past you never get to today.
I guess you don't know much math, huh? Your statement is simply false. It assumes there is a *beginning* and *then* an infinite time. In actuality, it is possible there is only a finite time between any two events, but an infinite amount of time in the past.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129342 Oct 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh...baby...it has undergone evolution. Again, the horseshoe crab you are looking at is a different species than the one of hundreds of millions of years ago. You just refuse to listen.
Here, paper demonstrating that modern horseshoe crabs are different than those in the past. It's technical, but perhaps that technicality will provide you some insight on why your comments are grossly oversimplified to the point of not containing information.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/07/...
"The basic arrangement of limbs in euarthropods consists of a uniramous head appendage followed by a series of biramous appendages. The body is divided into functional units or tagmata which are usually distinguished by further differentiation of the limbs. The living horseshoe crabs are remnants of a much larger diversity of aquatic chelicerates. The limbs of the anterior and posterior divisions of the body of living horseshoe crabs differ in the loss of the outer and inner ramus, respectively, of an ancestral biramous limb. Here we report a new fossil horseshoe crab from the mid-Silurian Lagerstštte in Herefordshire, United Kingdom (approximately 425 Myr B.P.), a site that has yielded a remarkably preserved assemblage of soft-bodied fossils. The limbs of the new form can be homologized with those of living Limulus, but retain an ancestral biramous morphology. Remarkably, however, the two limb branches originate separately, providing fossil evidence to suggest that repression or loss of gene expression might have given rise to the appendage morphology of Limulus. Both branches of the prosomal limbs of this new fossil are robust and segmented in contrast to their morphology in Cambrian arthropods, revealing that a true biramous limb was once present in chelicerates as well as in the mandibulates."
Sweets, these words were taken right out of your reference. These are the words of creative imaginations of science.

{evidence to suggest that}

{might have given rise to the}

I see in the fossil record a horseshoe crab 500 mya. Todayís horseshoe crab looks identical. Some minor changes noted by biologist, ok no problem. Basically the horseshoe crab has remained unchanged.

The earth and the oceans have changed a lot in 500 million years. Yet the horseshoe crab remains unchanged even though itís environment was and is constantly changing.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#129343 Oct 13, 2012
Evolution is the change over time in the frequency of alleles in a *population*. The individual is not the population.
Populations (species) evolve. Individuals don't.
<quoted text>
The word "evolution" is *always* a noun. Did you notice that "-ion" ending?
<quoted text>
Nope. Individuals don't evolve. Species do.
Dave Nelson wrote:
A species is a collection of individuals.
Which was never in dispute.
Dave Nelson wrote:
"1
: one of a set of prescribed movements
2
a : a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding
b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission
c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance
d : something evolved
3
: the process of working out or developing"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evo...
None of which are the definition of "evolution" when used in scientific biological contexts. Funny how you intentionally omitted the *relevant* definition from Merriam-Webster, which was definition *4*. Why did you knowingly fail to provide that definition, knowing that it was the only *relevant* one?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129344 Oct 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not many things uncreated outside of space and time?
Could be.
<quoted text>
I guess you don't know much math, huh? Your statement is simply false. It assumes there is a *beginning* and *then* an infinite time. In actuality, it is possible there is only a finite time between any two events, but an infinite amount of time in the past.
Infinity does not exist in reality. In space and time. It exists as a concept. In order to have infinite amount you have to have infinite time. You do not have infinite time. You have finite time. I know that much about math. My example included an infinite amount of days which is in space and time. All you have is an imaginary concept. That is not hard science.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#129345 Oct 13, 2012
It doesn't mean that all of the genes mutate at the same time. A mutation can appear in one individual, and if favorable then spread throughout the entire population over time (a number of generations).
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Then go talk to Hiding. Shevseems to think that a species evolves, not an individual
Hiding is correct. Species evolves. Individuals don't.

Nothing in what I said above is a claim that individuals evolve.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129346 Oct 13, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't personally know any atheists that want to thwart your freedoms. I love diversity. Some of my best friends are Christians. Some of my friends are Daoists. Don't put your Nativity scene on my government's property and I won't steal your baby jesus doll. It's as simple as that :)
In a case in my city a couple of years ago. A large building that once housed a business was donated to a local church. This donated building was located on the main street of the city. The city government blocked the use of this building as a church.

It seems the city didnít want a church on the main street. They wanted the church to move somewhere in the back and out of the way. The city was in violation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993. This law came about because governments were zoning out churches.

Once the city realized that the public was aware of the law. The rescinded their decision reluctantly. So government has and does try to block religious freedom.

When it comes to nativity scenes. Iím in agreement with you. These nativity scenes should not be on government property. There are plenty of churches and private property to display nativity scenes.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129348 Oct 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. It is quite possible to have many uncaused causes and your argument fails to show otherwise. It doesn't 'push things back' because those uncaused causes are, um, uncaused.
You did not read the two articles posted. It remains highly speculative there is uncaused causes. Besides it does not change cause and effect at macro levels. All you have is assumption in a new branch hardly anybody understands. Created under artificial conditions. Lab conditions.
Proof?

Never heard of quantum fluctuations, huh?

No, my pint is that complexity doesn't require an intelligence. Not all complexity is designed.
Read a little about it. There is no reason other than anti theism to assume complexity design order happens for no reason.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129349 Oct 13, 2012
preterism wrote:
<quoted text> Matter, now can you prove he didn't? Now prove how and when matter was made, as God says, in the beginning he created the heavens and earth and that would include matter.
Yet another godbot who is incapable of answer a simple question.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129350 Oct 13, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
And once again you prove that godbots can answer a simple question.
{And once again you prove that godbots can answer a simple question}.

A compliment coming from you???

Thank you but I tend to believe this is one of your bumbling and clumsy goofs.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129351 Oct 13, 2012
CORRECTION:-

Yet another godbot who is incapable of answering a simple question.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129352 Oct 13, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>A logical absurdity? You may have to prove that in mathematical terms to the greatest mind on the planet on that subject(Hawking).
Hawkins sucks in logic.
[QUOTE} From what I understand, Hawking says the source is the pressure from the vacuum in space.
You say," In order for a thing to create itself, it would have to exist before it self created."
Energy is not the universe, so your claim does not apply. Energy was used in the creation.[/QUOTE] Energy used in creation by what? Something has to use it. Where did energy come from? Energy is something, not nothing.
Natural laws such as gravity are the forces which move the energy to become the big bang.
Where do natural laws come from?
Why you skip to from the creation of the universe to the beginning of life, I do not know.
If the universe was caused by natural forces, why could not life also be caused by natural forces?
i explained that. Natural forces have no life or intelligence to transmit. They are not there. Natural forces cannot transmit what they do not have. They are insufficient cause. Life gives life. Non life does not give anything since it has nothing to give. No motivation to give. No motivation period. If possible, you need to be deprogrammed.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129353 Oct 13, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Another godbot who can not answer a simple question
{can not}

Now you are saying {can not}.

??????????

You are f**ked up, cowboy.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129354 Oct 13, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
{And once again you prove that godbots can answer a simple question}.
A compliment coming from you???
Thank you but I tend to believe this is one of your bumbling and clumsy goofs.
Ever heard of sarcasm?

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129355 Oct 13, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
CORRECTION:-
Yet another godbot who is incapable of answering a simple question.
Itís ok, we all make mistakes. Not as many as you do but we make them.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129356 Oct 13, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
It doesn't mean that all of the genes mutate at the same time.
So you think that one mutated gene in one creature is equivalent to a species?
A mutation can appear in one individual, and if favorable then spread throughout the entire population over time (a number of generations).
And the "unfavorable"? lol
Hiding is correct. Species evolves. Individuals don't.
So the mutated gene is NOT evolution?
Nothing in what I said above is a claim that individuals evolve.
Except that part that "A mutation can appear in one individual"....

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129357 Oct 13, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Itís ok, we all make mistakes. Not as many as you do but we make them.
BTW You still have not shown a single post where I have lied.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... 3 hr Even Steven 2,607
Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038 (Apr '12) 3 hr Morse 23,241
Can Atheists Know God Does Not Exist When They ... 4 hr Richardfs 166
God' existence 6 hr polymath257 84
Is 'naturalism' a bleak philosophical outlook? ... 10 hr Mikko 5
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 10 hr Mikko 1,452
Evidence for God! 11 hr Morse 369
More from around the web