Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
scouse55

Lydney, UK

#129277 Oct 13, 2012
Quote.....

.......No, individuals with mutations do not evolve. They are individuals born with mutations......

The very basis of the chicken and the egg argument.. proving the egg came first in evolutionary terms.

Bloody good summation in your lengthy submission, hence my just quoting that one sentence.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129278 Oct 13, 2012
scouse55 wrote:
Quote.....
.......No, individuals with mutations do not evolve. They are individuals born with mutations......
The very basis of the chicken and the egg argument.. proving the egg came first in evolutionary terms.
Bloody good summation in your lengthy submission, hence my just quoting that one sentence.
Thank you :)

Sorry for being long. Dave is not super good at understanding concepts, so they have to be explained in an exhaustive manner to him. Even then, he won't understand. But I tried and now you have tried - thanks.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#129279 Oct 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm right with you there. How does that go again?
Science taught us to build planes. Religion taught us to fly them into buildings.
Gerhard Neumann allowed us to do it with fan jets.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129280 Oct 13, 2012
Forgive me for this wall of text. I'm going to do what Eage12 and so many other Christians on this thread do - I'm just going to paste something that I can't honestly verify. Unlike them, I freely admit my ignorance on these issues. I'm only pasting it to demonstrate how ridiculous it is for Christians to paste comments they don't understand about science down and subsequently pretend they've made an argument.

That said, here it goes. Jesus never existed. He is a fictional figure:

"There is no contemporary historical record of any kind of Jesus!! No written Roman, Greek or Jewish sources from this time (apart from the gospels) know of any historical Jesus or Christ. The name "Christ" is mentioned in some later texts (Tacitus, Suetonius Pliny d.y.) but then merely as the name of the idol of the Christians' worship (Read what these sources really say here). We don't even know who the writers of the Gospels were, and don't have the original manuscripts themselves either. We just have later copies of copies of copies of copies … of copies of the assumed lost originals. And with each copy the copyist usually felt free to alter details or rewrite whole parts of the manuscript.(We usually don't trust dubious anonymous sources as evidence for anything, do we?)

All the divine aspects of the Jesus figure are "stolen" from earlier similar dying and resurrected godmen, such as Dionysos, Osiris, Hercules, Attis, Mithra, Horus, Zarathustra and others. Actually there are few (if any) things about Jesus that are original at all. Jesus is just the Jewish version of this popular mythic Saviour- character in the Mystery-religions of Antiquity.(See the similarities here).

All the teachings of Jesus are "borrowed" from older sources, for example from the teachings of Buddha. Many of Jesus teachings are almost word for word identical with some of Buddhas sayings (400 years earlier). The so-called "Golden rule" can be found in several earlier pagan Greek (and Jewish) texts. The famous "Sermon on the Mount" was never held by Jesus (of course, since he never existed), but also because it was actually first produced in the second century AD by Christian priests, assembled from what they assumed were sayings of Jesus in different other texts."

Because the Christians on here rarely provide links to their biased source material, neither will I. It's pretty easy to discover though. Just highlight some text and google search it.

:)
:)
:)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#129281 Oct 13, 2012
Some more:

"Note:
Much of the writings and research on the Jesus figure is amazingly biased, vague, tendentious and pervaded with wishful thinking.

One should in general be a bit sceptical to Christian scholars who often (obviously) don't have the necessary distance to their subject and obviously seem to be on a mission to prove the statements in the Bible, no matter what the real evidence say. As Christians they are usually convinced that Jesus did once exist as a real person in the first place, and are just looking for a confirmation."

True to form, I'm going to purposefully misquote my sources now, as RiversideRedneck taught me to do on the "Prove there's a god" thread. Unlike Riverside, I am being honest in telling you that I am deliberately misquoting in order to deceptively support my point. Riverside is fundamentally dishonest, though, so he covers up his manipulations:

"The best-known recent proponents of mythicism are Bible scholar Robert Price, German historian George Wells, mythicist-popularizer Earl Doherty, and historian Richard Carrier...

... scholars such as Paula Fredriksen, Robert Funk and E. P. Sanders hold that much of the material about him in the New Testament should not be taken at face value as it is driven by theological agendas.
Critics skeptical of the existence of a historical Jesus believe that Christian influence and bias (conscious or unconscious) has extended far outside the walls of formal Christianity. For example, atheist activist and Bible scholar Hector Avalos speaks of an "ecclesiastical-academic complex" which he believes has widely contaminated scholarship even in non-Christian academic institutions which nonetheless have a culturally Christian background or roots in religious institutions.
The history of the Christ myth theory can be traced to the French Enlightenment thinkers Constantin-François Volney and Charles François Dupuis in the 1790s. Notable proponents include Bruno Bauer; William Benjamin Smith; John Mackinnon Robertson; Arthur Drews; Paul-Louis Couchoud in the 20th century."

So, in the same manner that creationist Christians on this thread question biological science, based on my 1) ignorance, 2) unfamiliarity with the source material, 3) reference-less history I've provided above and 4) purposeful misquotes, we can determine that Jesus never existed.

Oh, wait, let me state that in their terms "I have proved that Jesus never existed."

There! That sounds a lot like creationist thinking!

Thanks for reading, it was fun :)
:)
:p

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129282 Oct 13, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
In the case of the horseshoe crab. I guarantee you the pressures and it’s environment has changed plenty in 500 million years. Yet it has remained unchanged in 500 million years.....
Nope. The horshoe crab along with many creatures, have not changed because their environment has not changed to the point they needed to.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129283 Oct 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
G_O_D, Mark was NOT talking about the Jewish ritual of baptising.....
Sure, they was just taking baths in the Jordan cuz the Romans wouldn't let Jews in their bathhouses.

You are a moron.
Read a friggin book.
Sart with thte entire Bible instead of repeating the bits your misiter reads to you and tells you what they mean.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129284 Oct 13, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Really, really. Atheism has killed over 200 million people in the last 90 years alone, exceeding all the Holy Wars combined.
Not sure where you are getting your numbers from BUT between 1940 and 1950 there were at least 16 million people murdered by two individuals who were raised as Catholics. One of whom constantly confirmed his Christian status.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129285 Oct 13, 2012
^^^^ make that " between 1930 and 1945" ^^^^^^

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129286 Oct 13, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>If you only have hate and a polluted mind, why do you even bother coming here?...
We have all been wondering that about you and all your sock puppet minions, Coward Viking.

Cowrad Viking thy name is Legion.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129287 Oct 13, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Is thiis life experience, because this has nothing to do with God?....
It is right out of the Bible you fraud. You can't possibly be a Christian, even the most ignorant Fundie is smarter than you about it.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129288 Oct 13, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Another godbot who can not answer a simple question
GateKeeper is just another one of Coward Viking's umpteen socks.

There are two explanations for his insanity:

1. He sucks as a Christian.
2. He suck as a Poe.

In either case, he sucks, which may be why he is so hung up on homosexuality.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#129289 Oct 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Some more:
"Note:
Much of the writings and research on the Jesus figure is amazingly biased, vague, tendentious and pervaded with wishful thinking.
One should in general be a bit sceptical to Christian scholars who often (obviously) don't have the necessary distance to their subject and obviously seem to be on a mission to prove the statements in the Bible, no matter what the real evidence say. As Christians they are usually convinced that Jesus did once exist as a real person in the first place, and are just looking for a confirmation."
True to form, I'm going to purposefully misquote my sources now, as RiversideRedneck taught me to do on the "Prove there's a god" thread. Unlike Riverside, I am being honest in telling you that I am deliberately misquoting in order to deceptively support my point. Riverside is fundamentally dishonest, though, so he covers up his manipulations:
"The best-known recent proponents of mythicism are Bible scholar Robert Price, German historian George Wells, mythicist-popularizer Earl Doherty, and historian Richard Carrier...
... scholars such as Paula Fredriksen, Robert Funk and E. P. Sanders hold that much of the material about him in the New Testament should not be taken at face value as it is driven by theological agendas.
Critics skeptical of the existence of a historical Jesus believe that Christian influence and bias (conscious or unconscious) has extended far outside the walls of formal Christianity. For example, atheist activist and Bible scholar Hector Avalos speaks of an "ecclesiastical-academic complex" which he believes has widely contaminated scholarship even in non-Christian academic institutions which nonetheless have a culturally Christian background or roots in religious institutions.
The history of the Christ myth theory can be traced to the French Enlightenment thinkers Constantin-François Volney and Charles François Dupuis in the 1790s. Notable proponents include Bruno Bauer; William Benjamin Smith; John Mackinnon Robertson; Arthur Drews; Paul-Louis Couchoud in the 20th century."
So, in the same manner that creationist Christians on this thread question biological science, based on my 1) ignorance, 2) unfamiliarity with the source material, 3) reference-less history I've provided above and 4) purposeful misquotes, we can determine that Jesus never existed.
Oh, wait, let me state that in their terms "I have proved that Jesus never existed."
There! That sounds a lot like creationist thinking!
Thanks for reading, it was fun :)
:)
:p
Information like this drives LBR nuts.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129290 Oct 13, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you believe that bullies are cowards?
That’s a yes or a no answer.
Yes, I do believe that you are a coward. How many times have you tried to act tough on here? LOL!
truthrules

Ormond Beach, FL

#129291 Oct 13, 2012
whasssupp anti God people? for you science junkies you may want to check out Dr Baugh out of Texas and his evidence for instant creation. He has a website but you have to google his name.

It may poke some holes in you're big bang, atoms meet molecules in space theory, but if you can stomach some truth, checker out! Where is that slithering former Christian/atheist/not sure guy Bob the cut down man?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#129292 Oct 13, 2012
Yes exactly! So let's all have some roasted meat and adult beverages knowing full well the Dionysus worshippers will drink us all under the table :)
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm right with you there. How does that go again?
Science taught us to build planes. Religion taught us to fly them into buildings.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#129293 Oct 13, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
...adult beverages ....<quoted text>
Bacchus kicked my ass drinking 30 years ago. I would be stupid to get back in THAT ring.
However:
What kind of food do you have, can I smoke and will there be women there ? <smile>

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#129294 Oct 13, 2012
truthrules wrote:
whasssupp anti God people? for you science junkies you may want to check out Dr Baugh out of Texas and his evidence for instant creation. He has a website but you have to google his name.
It may poke some holes in you're big bang, atoms meet molecules in space theory, but if you can stomach some truth, checker out! Where is that slithering former Christian/atheist/not sure guy Bob the cut down man?
This guy?

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/whatbau.htm

bwahaha

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#129295 Oct 13, 2012
truthrules wrote:
whasssupp anti God people? for you science junkies you may want to check out Dr Baugh out of Texas and his evidence for instant creation. He has a website but you have to google his name.
It may poke some holes in you're big bang, atoms meet molecules in space theory, but if you can stomach some truth, checker out! Where is that slithering former Christian/atheist/not sure guy Bob the cut down man?
Truth does rule you don't.

"Both scientists and creationists have criticized Baugh's claims. In 1982–1984, several scientists, including J.R. Cole, L.R. Godfrey, R.J. Hastings, and S.D. Schafersman, examined Baugh's purported "mantracks" as well as others provided by creationists in the Glen Rose Formation.[12] In the course of the examination "Baugh contradicted his own earlier reports of the locations of key discoveries" and many of the supposed prints "lacked human characteristics."[12] After a three year investigation of the tracks and Baugh's specimens, the scientists concluded there was no evidence of any of Baugh's claims or any "dinosaur-man tracks".[12]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Baugh

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129296 Oct 13, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
And Kant showed how all were faulty.
Kant self refutes. It fails its own standards
#2 is based on causality, which we know fails at the quantum level. It also assumes that the process cannot go on to infinity. And, finally, it only shows that there are uncaused causes, not that there is a first cause (there could, for example, be many uncaused causes).
Many uncaused causes just pushes things back. You still need an original cause. Infinity does not exist in reality. Most of your assumptions is no more valid than Star Trek's transporter room. It is Science fiction.
#3 is based on the flawed philosophy of necessary and contingent existence. Again, an Aristotelian viewpoint which is known to be wrong.
if ever a time there was nothing then there cannot be anything is valid. From nothing comes nothing. Nothing cannot produse anything.
#5 is based on the idea that complexity must be produced by an intelligence, which we again know is incorrect.
Sorry, but your medieval 'proofs' simply don't hold the water you want to carry.
Design does not need intelligence is an illogical assumption. To have design you need intelligence. On your point 2, here are some responses from Christian sites which will be ignored.
http://christianityresponse.blogspot.com/2010...

http://apologetics-notes.comereason.org/2010/...

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