Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 239280 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#129324 Oct 13, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I guess he means that though evolution (ie; somehow or another) an entire species of, say bird, evolved into a different species of bird. All together, all of their genes mutating at the same time.
Nope.

It doesn't mean that all of the genes mutate at the same time. A mutation can appear in one individual, and if favorable then spread throughout the entire population over time (a number of generations).

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#129325 Oct 13, 2012
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. plants are aware and some scientists think they can see, smell and feel ..
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#129326 Oct 13, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Uncreated outside time and space.
<quoted text> In math if you have an infinite number of days past you never get to today.
<quoted text> Agree <quoted text> It is neutral on God. Atheists assume no God and highjack science to validate their atheism. True science is neutral. Atheism assumes no God.
<quoted text> That does not count for intelligence or life or design. It is lacking. Besides it assumes energy is infinite. If energy is infinite in reality what is it's source? Hawkins assume the universe created itself. In order for a thing to create itself, it would have to exist before it self created. It is a logical absurdity. The only sufficient cause for everything has to be God. It cannot be anything else. Any other explanation lacks sufficiency.
A logical absurdity? You may have to prove that in mathematical terms to the greatest mind on the planet on that subject(Hawking).
From what I understand, Hawking says the source is the pressure from the vacuum in space.

You say," In order for a thing to create itself, it would have to exist before it self created."

Energy is not the universe, so your claim does not apply. Energy was used in the creation. Natural laws such as gravity are the forces which move the energy to become the big bang.

Why you skip to from the creation of the universe to the beginning of life, I do not know.
If the universe was caused by natural forces, why could not life also be caused by natural forces?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#129327 Oct 13, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
Mike D!
Whatup?
How is it going? I have been on the political debate thread.
Someone on there just told me, non believers are superstitious for being non believers.
I await him to explain that one.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#129328 Oct 13, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
Evolution is the change over time in the frequency of alleles in a *population*. The individual is not the population.
Populations (species) evolve. Individuals don't.
<quoted text>
The word "evolution" is *always* a noun. Did you notice that "-ion" ending?
<quoted text>
Nope. Individuals don't evolve. Species do.
A species is a collection of individuals.

"1
: one of a set of prescribed movements
2
a : a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding
b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission
c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance
d : something evolved
3
: the process of working out or developing"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evo...

Note the reference to process. Which in biological evolution is through the individuals. The way you are defining it is a magical poof between start and end process. Those genes got there somehow, Bubba. Unless Darwin sprinkled magic pixie dust. BTW, he thought evolution could be a process of a higher intelligence.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#129329 Oct 13, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
A species is a collection of individuals.
"1
: one of a set of prescribed movements
2
a : a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding
b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission
c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance
d : something evolved
3
: the process of working out or developing"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evo...
Note the reference to process. Which in biological evolution is through the individuals. The way you are defining it is a magical poof between start and end process. Those genes got there somehow, Bubba. Unless Darwin sprinkled magic pixie dust. BTW, he thought evolution could be a process of a higher intelligence.
Darwin was just the first to formally introduce the theory of evolution. If he thought it was gods way, that does not mean it was gods way.
Even if it is actually a god causing evolution, it does not mean evolution does not happen. We know animals and plants evolve.
So the main dispute is how it happens.

If you could show a god causes evolution, you will be rewarded the Nobel prize and be the most famous person on the planet.
If you could show with evidence god even existed you would be famous.
If you could show a god did a single thing ever, you would be famous.

If you wish to believe evolution is caused by god, fine, but just do not expect to call it science.

But it looks as if you deny evolution even happens.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129330 Oct 13, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Who created god?
Prove infinity does not exist?
Science does not claim the universe has no cause. It just does not make up a cause like religion does.
The Hawking's hypothesis says energy likely always existed. Thus energy could have caused the big bang.
hehehe You don't see the hypocracy in what you just posted?!

"Science...does not make up a cause like religion does."

"energy could have caused the big bang"

LMAO!

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#129331 Oct 13, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
So when your god commanded the Isrealites to slaughter and rape, that was not justified?
To allege that the God of the Bible is some sort of “monster” for ordering Israel to destroy the inhabitants of Canaan exhibits an ignorance of biblical teaching. Those inhabitants were destroyed because of their wickedness (Deuteronomy 9:4; 18:9-14). They were so evil that their Creator no longer could abide their corruption. That they had numerous opportunities to repent is evident from the prophetic books (Nineveh did repent, for example, and for a time stayed the day of destruction). Complaining about Jehovah’s order to destroy innocent children is a vain gesture when one realizes that the children were spared an even worse fate of being reared as slaves under the domination of sin. Instead of having to endure the scourge of a life of immorality and wickedness, these innocents were ushered early into the bliss of Paradise. If the male children had been allowed to mature, they most likely would have followed the pagan ways of their forefathers, and eventually would have taken vengeance on the Israelites. Killing the males not only prevented them from falling into the same abominable sins as their parents, but also kept Israel from having to battle them later. Just like the children in Noah's time when God destroyed all but eight these children would of grown up to be as there parents, because evil was the norm, so that meant these children didn't have a chance so it was better for the children to die and go to heaven thsn grow up and go to hell, don't you agree?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129332 Oct 13, 2012
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Not sure if anyone ever said this. Possibly it was a creationist pamphlet creating a straw man.Science certainly does not make such a claim, nor needs to for evolution of birds.
Birds evolved from dinosaurs. None of the differences between dinosaurs and birds needed to occur at once.
BUT!! The self-proclaimed smart people here say that "a species evolves, not an individual".....

A species "evolving" to a better suited species is impossible. ONE individual wolud havebto start the chain reaction...

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129333 Oct 13, 2012
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope.
It doesn't mean that all of the genes mutate at the same time. A mutation can appear in one individual, and if favorable then spread throughout the entire population over time (a number of generations).
Then go talk to Hiding. Shevseems to think that a species evolves, not an individual...

And she claims to be a teacher (and a PhD student at the same time).

Y'all can't seem to get your stories straight....

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#129334 Oct 13, 2012
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Proof?
Show us one scientific theory which has a goddidit term.
Matter, now can you prove he didn't? Now prove how and when matter was made, as God says, in the beginning he created the heavens and earth and that would include matter.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129335 Oct 13, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yes it would.
That is a false assumption that you’re making.
See this is a misnomer you’re entertaining. A false one at that. You are only repeating what someone else has told you.
You never been on the cutting edge of Bio Chemistry research. I’m telling you that evolution stops for the majority research scientist the minute they pass the course. It is not necessary or applied in Chemistry and Bio Chemistry related to pharma research and production.
We’re talking here modern science, modern research science. You won’t see a chart on the evolution of man hanging in any of these pharmaceutical research facilities.
Don’t take my word for it, go a visit a pharma research facility. Take a tour, talk to the scientist. See for yourself.
http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/arti...

Viruses and Evolution
Just as natural selection has shaped the evolution of humans, plants, and all living things on the planet, natural selection shapes viruses, too. Though viruses aren’t technically living – they need a host organism in order to reproduce – they are subject to evolutionary pressures

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#129336 Oct 13, 2012
Some people feel they are smarter than God and of course God has a reply to that, which is, My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the Lord.

“And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.

9For just as the heavens are higher than the earth,

so my ways are higher than your ways

and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#129337 Oct 13, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry, you are wrong. Your statement of falsehood, in an attempt to recover your loss does not become valid, by simply seeking unverifiable consensus.
And neither does your quoting Aquinas demonstrate your views are correct. The arguments Aquinas gave were faulty: they did not prove what he claimed.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#129338 Oct 13, 2012
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
the ware christian and what ever you say doesn't change it and the christian churches approved of it all
There is only one church , that is the Church of Christ. God being pure love is incapable of doing anything evil. Just as heat is the absence of cold so is Love the absence of evil. My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the Lord.

“And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.

9For just as the heavens are higher than the earth,

so my ways are higher than your ways

and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. Reas your bible and read Acts chapter 1 and 2 and you will see how and when the Church of Christ started and how your to worship him. Romans 16:16 Mark 16:16

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129339 Oct 13, 2012
preterism wrote:
Some people feel they are smarter than God and of course God has a reply to that, which is, My thoughts are nothing like your thoughts,” says the Lord.
“And my ways are far beyond anything you could imagine.
9For just as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so my ways are higher than your ways
and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.
Exodus 21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.

2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.

4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#129340 Oct 13, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Many uncaused causes just pushes things back. You still need an original cause.
Wrong. It is quite possible to have many uncaused causes and your argument fails to show otherwise. It doesn't 'push things back' because those uncaused causes are, um, uncaused.
Infinity does not exist in reality.
Proof?
From nothing comes nothing. Nothing cannot produse anything.
Never heard of quantum fluctuations, huh?
Design does not need intelligence is an illogical assumption. To have design you need intelligence.
No, my pint is that complexity doesn't require an intelligence. Not all complexity is designed.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#129341 Oct 13, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Uncreated outside time and space.
Why not many things uncreated outside of space and time?
In math if you have an infinite number of days past you never get to today.
I guess you don't know much math, huh? Your statement is simply false. It assumes there is a *beginning* and *then* an infinite time. In actuality, it is possible there is only a finite time between any two events, but an infinite amount of time in the past.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129342 Oct 13, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh...baby...it has undergone evolution. Again, the horseshoe crab you are looking at is a different species than the one of hundreds of millions of years ago. You just refuse to listen.
Here, paper demonstrating that modern horseshoe crabs are different than those in the past. It's technical, but perhaps that technicality will provide you some insight on why your comments are grossly oversimplified to the point of not containing information.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/07/...
"The basic arrangement of limbs in euarthropods consists of a uniramous head appendage followed by a series of biramous appendages. The body is divided into functional units or tagmata which are usually distinguished by further differentiation of the limbs. The living horseshoe crabs are remnants of a much larger diversity of aquatic chelicerates. The limbs of the anterior and posterior divisions of the body of living horseshoe crabs differ in the loss of the outer and inner ramus, respectively, of an ancestral biramous limb. Here we report a new fossil horseshoe crab from the mid-Silurian Lagerstätte in Herefordshire, United Kingdom (approximately 425 Myr B.P.), a site that has yielded a remarkably preserved assemblage of soft-bodied fossils. The limbs of the new form can be homologized with those of living Limulus, but retain an ancestral biramous morphology. Remarkably, however, the two limb branches originate separately, providing fossil evidence to suggest that repression or loss of gene expression might have given rise to the appendage morphology of Limulus. Both branches of the prosomal limbs of this new fossil are robust and segmented in contrast to their morphology in Cambrian arthropods, revealing that a true biramous limb was once present in chelicerates as well as in the mandibulates."
Sweets, these words were taken right out of your reference. These are the words of creative imaginations of science.

{evidence to suggest that}

{might have given rise to the}

I see in the fossil record a horseshoe crab 500 mya. Today’s horseshoe crab looks identical. Some minor changes noted by biologist, ok no problem. Basically the horseshoe crab has remained unchanged.

The earth and the oceans have changed a lot in 500 million years. Yet the horseshoe crab remains unchanged even though it’s environment was and is constantly changing.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#129343 Oct 13, 2012
Evolution is the change over time in the frequency of alleles in a *population*. The individual is not the population.
Populations (species) evolve. Individuals don't.
<quoted text>
The word "evolution" is *always* a noun. Did you notice that "-ion" ending?
<quoted text>
Nope. Individuals don't evolve. Species do.
Dave Nelson wrote:
A species is a collection of individuals.
Which was never in dispute.
Dave Nelson wrote:
"1
: one of a set of prescribed movements
2
a : a process of change in a certain direction : unfolding
b : the action or an instance of forming and giving something off : emission
c (1): a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher, more complex, or better state : growth (2): a process of gradual and relatively peaceful social, political, and economic advance
d : something evolved
3
: the process of working out or developing"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evo...
None of which are the definition of "evolution" when used in scientific biological contexts. Funny how you intentionally omitted the *relevant* definition from Merriam-Webster, which was definition *4*. Why did you knowingly fail to provide that definition, knowing that it was the only *relevant* one?

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