Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 247262 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#129081 Oct 11, 2012
The only way liberty will erode is if people continiue to elect politicians that are hell-bent on ruining America & making us more in debt.

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129082 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry, are you a biologist who specializes in abiogensis? Do you even understand the first thing about biology?
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> What branch deals with Gooses which lays golden eggs? How bout making gold from lead? What about fountain of youth? The odds being better for any of these to happen than abiogenesis.
So, no, you aren't a biologist, don't have any training in it, don't understand the first thing about biochemistry and yet make authoritative statements on how biology works.

Lightbeamer, you are fundamentally dishonest.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129083 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
No, right? Doesn't your religion preach against lies and deception?
yes.
When you claim authority to speak on matters that you do not understand, have no training in whatsoever, you are being dishonest. There are no two ways about it.
Stop being dishonest.
Never claimed authority. You have to be trained to understand abiogenesis? Only those trained? Isn't that like a cult? A secret society? You on the other hand speak on the Bible and when i asked you to read Exodus 1 you replied to post it and you will. Does that mean you do not even own a Bible? Does that mean you have no training on the Bible? Not one Theology class? My beliefs also speaks about hypocrisy. If i am dishonest it has nothing to do with rejection of abiogenesis or self created universe. One can reject these propositions on logic alone.

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129084 Oct 11, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
HL - Liberty IS a gift from God.
Funny that you quote Mitt. Why not Obama?
"McCane hasn't asked me about my Muslim religion"...
Ridiculous. Liberty is a freedom developed over centuries of hard work by humans! You only have it because of the society you live in - it favors laws over absolute rulers.

Your Christian religion persecuted people for millennia! It fought tooth and nail to keep freedoms from people - it still does! Look at how the Catholic church prevented the legal recourse of the victims of pedophilia, how fundamentalist Christians in America attack the education system at every turn.

Organized Christianity is not a friend of freedom, not even slightly - and neither is the God of their Bible.

When you write stuff like the above, you are making humans lessor beings. We're not. We built our civilizations up. We struggled to produce complicated legal systems that work to ensure people's freedoms and rights - these are hard won battles that took place of hundreds of years.

Do not diminish them by claiming God did it. That's repulsively wrong.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129085 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
So, no, you aren't a biologist, don't have any training in it, don't understand the first thing about biochemistry and yet make authoritative statements on how biology works.
Lightbeamer, you are fundamentally dishonest.
Is it all as good for you as it is for me?

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#129086 Oct 11, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The only way liberty will erode is if people continiue to elect politicians that are hell-bent on ruining America & making us more in debt.
Do you really think there are politicians in office that want America to fail?

Isn't there a better way to make your point?

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129087 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
yes.
<quoted text> Never claimed authority. You have to be trained to understand abiogenesis? Only those trained? Isn't that like a cult? A secret society? You on the other hand speak on the Bible and when i asked you to read Exodus 1 you replied to post it and you will. Does that mean you do not even own a Bible? Does that mean you have no training on the Bible? Not one Theology class? My beliefs also speaks about hypocrisy. If i am dishonest it has nothing to do with rejection of abiogenesis or self created universe. One can reject these propositions on logic alone.
Yes, you have to be trained to understand abiogenesis. Do you understand how organic molecules function in oxygen-free atmospheres? I don't. Do you understand how organic molecules are even formed? How do they bind? How long can they be before they're unstable? What environments allow them to be longer? Under what conditions do nucleic acids form? What are the likely precursors to RNA and why?

You're not even remotely qualified to make claims about abiogenesis. Doing so is dishonest.

I am qualified to read archaeology. I'm trained in their methodologies and have a solid foundation in the basics of their field. So, yes, I can read the work done in Bible archaeology and take an informed side. If I read their research papers, I could understand what methods they used and the limitations of knowledge they can claim.

No, I don't have a Bible. I've read the Bible 4 times. I've moved between countries so many times, I stopped lugging it around. The Bible is freely available on the Internet, in all kinds of translations. If you want me to read a specific part of it, post a link to it.

Unlike you, I do not hold the Bible as any kind of authority. I really don't care to remember one religion's myths and tales. It's totally worthless in my life, has nothing to do with my research, has nothing valuable to say about anything I do. So why would I have one?

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129088 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Is it all as good for you as it is for me?
Yes. When I am incompetent, I say so.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#129089 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. When I am incompetent, I say so.
I've never heard you say that.

:)

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#129090 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Is it all as good for you as it is for me?
This is what you have to resort to at this point?

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129091 Oct 11, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
I've never heard you say that.
:)
It's not something I am.

:p

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#129092 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Unlike you, I do not hold the Bible as any kind of authority. I really don't care to remember one religion's myths and tales. It's totally worthless in my life, has nothing to do with my research, has nothing valuable to say about anything I do. So why would I have one?
I cut out the preaching part of your post. Abiogenesis and self created universe is totally worthless in my life and i would add totally worthless in an objective sense to say the least. i know some believe these things and i also know i have no control over whatever fantasies haappen in the heads of others. Biology has little to do in my life so i don't spend a lot of time on it. Professionalism is expected and i do not see a lot of it in your posts. I tire of your self promotion and your browbeating concerning Biology. It is in bad taste. Obviously you do not care about truths of the first order and are content to live your life with blinders on when it comes to what really matters and you have that right. Have a nice night. By the way. Am skeptical of your claim you read the Bible four times.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#129093 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I cut out the preaching part of your post. Abiogenesis and self created universe is totally worthless in my life and i would add totally worthless in an objective sense to say the least. i know some believe these things and i also know i have no control over whatever fantasies haappen in the heads of others. Biology has little to do in my life so i don't spend a lot of time on it. Professionalism is expected and i do not see a lot of it in your posts. I tire of your self promotion and your browbeating concerning Biology. It is in bad taste. Obviously you do not care about truths of the first order and are content to live your life with blinders on when it comes to what really matters and you have that right. Have a nice night. By the way. Am skeptical of your claim you read the Bible four times.
Truths of the first order?

What's that all about?

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129094 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I cut out the preaching part of your post. Abiogenesis and self created universe is totally worthless in my life and i would add totally worthless in an objective sense to say the least. i know some believe these things and i also know i have no control over whatever fantasies haappen in the heads of others. Biology has little to do in my life so i don't spend a lot of time on it. Professionalism is expected and i do not see a lot of it in your posts. I tire of your self promotion and your browbeating concerning Biology. It is in bad taste. Obviously you do not care about truths of the first order and are content to live your life with blinders on when it comes to what really matters and you have that right. Have a nice night. By the way. Am skeptical of your claim you read the Bible four times.
Abiogenesis is unimportant to almost everyone's life, with the possible exception of the scientists working on it.

Whether biology is useful in your life or not is an aside. You are dishonest when you claim to know anything about biological science. You are dishonest when you claim abiogenesis and evolution aren't science. You know nothing of these fields and make sweeping religious statements concerning them - dishonest.

I love that you claim to be speaking to "first order truths" through the use of dishonesty. That's quite remarkable.

Re: professionalism

1. How are you being professional by misrepresenting your knowledge on subjects you don't even understand the most elementary aspects of?

2. I do not come on here to make my CV better. I come on here to combat ignorance espoused by people like you in a manner enjoyable to the other reasonable, rational people that read these threads.

My professional life and my topix life are wildly separate. Just as I cannot imagine the world you live in, and could never fill your shoes, you haven't got a clue what kind of professional circles I live in. You don't seem to know the first thing about science, how it works or how people interact within it. The kinds of logical fallacies and ignorance you parade about would get you harshly criticized, to say the least.

Last, it doesn't matter if you don't believe me about the Bible. I've largely forgotten it entirely. I remember a few key phrases and some general stories, but nothing specific. I'm not proud that I read it so many times - I used to be. Now I consider that one of the biggest time wasting events in my life. I've tried picking up other "holy" books and reading them (the book of Mormon, the Koran, the Urantia, and some Japanese religion's books). I find them incessantly boring, utterly worthless in the logic department, totally wrong about reality and a gross waste of time (except for those interested in those cultures). Sometimes the Buddhist ones are funny, especially when people get chased by magical cows. Oh, and one new Japanese religion claimed some god or other Created the universe 80 billion years ago. I found that quite laughable.

But I do remember that lying is one of the 7 deadly sins. And doesn't it say something like "yaay, above all these, God hates lying the most" or something?

So why can't you be honest? Why can't you say "I don't think science will ever be fruitful in its research on abiogenesis because I have religious beliefs."

Because that's all you have Lightbeamer. You have a deeply felt religious belief that has you convinced that abiogenesis couldn't have happened. It has you so convinced that you don't even care to peruse the evidence for it, don't care to learn how such research is being pursued so that you could produce a valid critique on their work.

So just be honest and admit you are religiously convinced and cannot speak to the evidence or theory behind the research. Is that so hard for you? Is dishonesty necessary for your religion's "pursuit of first order truths?"

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129095 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Truths of the first order?
What's that all about?
I can't really speak for LB, but it seems as though to reach Truths of the First Order you have to misrepresent your knowledge by speaking on subjects you don't understand.

A tiny bit of Orwellian logic there.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#129096 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't really speak for LB, but it seems as though to reach Truths of the First Order you have to misrepresent your knowledge by speaking on subjects you don't understand.
A tiny bit of Orwellian logic there.
Just so you know.

I have been rapt with the U.S. Vice-presidential debate.

Biden did a very good job.

“Mercury bubbles blast!”

Since: Mar 11

Mercury

#129097 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Never claimed authority.
Every time you make proclamations about biology.
You have to be trained to understand abiogenesis?
You at least have to understand organic chemistry, some basic geology, geophysics, and biology.
Only those trained? Isn't that like a cult? A secret society?
No, it's called "education."
You on the other hand speak on the Bible and when i asked you to read Exodus 1 you replied to post it and you will. Does that mean you do not even own a Bible?
I have one, not here. The Internet has free Bibles of all kinds of versions. If you want me to read a passage, post it or a link.
Does that mean you have no training on the Bible? Not one Theology class?
Not one theology class. Read the Bible, attending some Bible studies classes, found them to be full of nonsense and the absence of intellectual growth and left.
My beliefs also speaks about hypocrisy. If i am dishonest it has nothing to do with rejection of abiogenesis or self created universe. One can reject these propositions on logic alone.
Really, how?

By making religious claims that are specific to your religion? Sorry, that's not logic.

By invoking your version of "common sense"? Sorry, reality is not based on your common sense.

It's like your a volunteer football coach for some nice children and you're trying to tell someone how computers should be built. Sorry, LB, but you don't have any input here. You lack the basic fundamentals in all of the sciences you speak to and so simply cannot understand the problems within those disciplines. Your comments on them are so wildly off base, so naive and uninformed, it's painful.

“The Edge”

Since: Dec 10

Of Tomorow

#129098 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just so you know.
I have been rapt with the U.S. Vice-presidential debate.
Biden did a very good job.

I agree but he is an old professional with loads of experience in bull shitting and lying. lol

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#129099 Oct 11, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree but he is an old professional with loads of experience in bull shitting and lying. lol
lol back atcha Aura.....

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129104 Oct 11, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think many people actively disdain religious people, and I personally have no problem with a personal belief in god.
I do, however, take issue with those who make it their personal mission to spread their belief - a behavior that is highly encouraged in certain religions, christianity being one of them. And I am especially against those who try to impose the archaic notions of their religion on science and social policy. If someone wants to think that we are magical creations and that evolution is false, or if someone wants to think that gays shouldn't have equal rights, that's fine so long as they remain personal beliefs. They are stupid personal beliefs, but they are personal nonetheless. It's when people make it their mission to impose their beliefs on everyone else that it becomes a problem.
I completely understand your position.

The Mormons come every year to my house to invite me to their church. Now a days I don’t even answer the door. I’ve got a security camera. If I don’t know them. I don’t need to talk to them.

I’m not trying to be mean it’s just that I’m not interested. I think in today’s world there are better ways to invite people without coming across as a nuisance.

I don’t hate gays or wish them harm. They shouldn’t be discriminated in the work place. At the same time the work place is not a platform for them to market their lifestyle. In fact they need to keep their lifestyle personal.

I don’t want to know if someone is gay. It’s none of my business to start with. For example CNN’s Anderson Cooper came out that he was gay. In my opinion he used his job to promote a lifestyle. Work should be about work and nothing else. I think it was very inappropriate in my opinion.

I don’t know any Christian that is anti science. There are hundreds of science disciplines and I support them all. Saying Christians are anti science is a very broad statement and it’s untrue.

You choose not to believe. I’m ok with that decision of yours. We wouldn’t be free if we didn’t have a choice. My concerns are very similar to yours. I don’t want anyone trying to convert me and that includes atheist. I don’t want anyone trying to strip away my freedom of choice. Nor do I want anyone trying to stop my freedom of religion.

We have the right to believe or not to believe and I want to keep that freedom.

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