Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258476 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129093 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I cut out the preaching part of your post. Abiogenesis and self created universe is totally worthless in my life and i would add totally worthless in an objective sense to say the least. i know some believe these things and i also know i have no control over whatever fantasies haappen in the heads of others. Biology has little to do in my life so i don't spend a lot of time on it. Professionalism is expected and i do not see a lot of it in your posts. I tire of your self promotion and your browbeating concerning Biology. It is in bad taste. Obviously you do not care about truths of the first order and are content to live your life with blinders on when it comes to what really matters and you have that right. Have a nice night. By the way. Am skeptical of your claim you read the Bible four times.
Truths of the first order?

What's that all about?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#129094 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I cut out the preaching part of your post. Abiogenesis and self created universe is totally worthless in my life and i would add totally worthless in an objective sense to say the least. i know some believe these things and i also know i have no control over whatever fantasies haappen in the heads of others. Biology has little to do in my life so i don't spend a lot of time on it. Professionalism is expected and i do not see a lot of it in your posts. I tire of your self promotion and your browbeating concerning Biology. It is in bad taste. Obviously you do not care about truths of the first order and are content to live your life with blinders on when it comes to what really matters and you have that right. Have a nice night. By the way. Am skeptical of your claim you read the Bible four times.
Abiogenesis is unimportant to almost everyone's life, with the possible exception of the scientists working on it.

Whether biology is useful in your life or not is an aside. You are dishonest when you claim to know anything about biological science. You are dishonest when you claim abiogenesis and evolution aren't science. You know nothing of these fields and make sweeping religious statements concerning them - dishonest.

I love that you claim to be speaking to "first order truths" through the use of dishonesty. That's quite remarkable.

Re: professionalism

1. How are you being professional by misrepresenting your knowledge on subjects you don't even understand the most elementary aspects of?

2. I do not come on here to make my CV better. I come on here to combat ignorance espoused by people like you in a manner enjoyable to the other reasonable, rational people that read these threads.

My professional life and my topix life are wildly separate. Just as I cannot imagine the world you live in, and could never fill your shoes, you haven't got a clue what kind of professional circles I live in. You don't seem to know the first thing about science, how it works or how people interact within it. The kinds of logical fallacies and ignorance you parade about would get you harshly criticized, to say the least.

Last, it doesn't matter if you don't believe me about the Bible. I've largely forgotten it entirely. I remember a few key phrases and some general stories, but nothing specific. I'm not proud that I read it so many times - I used to be. Now I consider that one of the biggest time wasting events in my life. I've tried picking up other "holy" books and reading them (the book of Mormon, the Koran, the Urantia, and some Japanese religion's books). I find them incessantly boring, utterly worthless in the logic department, totally wrong about reality and a gross waste of time (except for those interested in those cultures). Sometimes the Buddhist ones are funny, especially when people get chased by magical cows. Oh, and one new Japanese religion claimed some god or other Created the universe 80 billion years ago. I found that quite laughable.

But I do remember that lying is one of the 7 deadly sins. And doesn't it say something like "yaay, above all these, God hates lying the most" or something?

So why can't you be honest? Why can't you say "I don't think science will ever be fruitful in its research on abiogenesis because I have religious beliefs."

Because that's all you have Lightbeamer. You have a deeply felt religious belief that has you convinced that abiogenesis couldn't have happened. It has you so convinced that you don't even care to peruse the evidence for it, don't care to learn how such research is being pursued so that you could produce a valid critique on their work.

So just be honest and admit you are religiously convinced and cannot speak to the evidence or theory behind the research. Is that so hard for you? Is dishonesty necessary for your religion's "pursuit of first order truths?"

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#129095 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Truths of the first order?
What's that all about?
I can't really speak for LB, but it seems as though to reach Truths of the First Order you have to misrepresent your knowledge by speaking on subjects you don't understand.

A tiny bit of Orwellian logic there.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129096 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't really speak for LB, but it seems as though to reach Truths of the First Order you have to misrepresent your knowledge by speaking on subjects you don't understand.
A tiny bit of Orwellian logic there.
Just so you know.

I have been rapt with the U.S. Vice-presidential debate.

Biden did a very good job.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#129097 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Never claimed authority.
Every time you make proclamations about biology.
You have to be trained to understand abiogenesis?
You at least have to understand organic chemistry, some basic geology, geophysics, and biology.
Only those trained? Isn't that like a cult? A secret society?
No, it's called "education."
You on the other hand speak on the Bible and when i asked you to read Exodus 1 you replied to post it and you will. Does that mean you do not even own a Bible?
I have one, not here. The Internet has free Bibles of all kinds of versions. If you want me to read a passage, post it or a link.
Does that mean you have no training on the Bible? Not one Theology class?
Not one theology class. Read the Bible, attending some Bible studies classes, found them to be full of nonsense and the absence of intellectual growth and left.
My beliefs also speaks about hypocrisy. If i am dishonest it has nothing to do with rejection of abiogenesis or self created universe. One can reject these propositions on logic alone.
Really, how?

By making religious claims that are specific to your religion? Sorry, that's not logic.

By invoking your version of "common sense"? Sorry, reality is not based on your common sense.

It's like your a volunteer football coach for some nice children and you're trying to tell someone how computers should be built. Sorry, LB, but you don't have any input here. You lack the basic fundamentals in all of the sciences you speak to and so simply cannot understand the problems within those disciplines. Your comments on them are so wildly off base, so naive and uninformed, it's painful.

“ad victoriam”

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#129098 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just so you know.
I have been rapt with the U.S. Vice-presidential debate.
Biden did a very good job.

I agree but he is an old professional with loads of experience in bull shitting and lying. lol

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129099 Oct 11, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree but he is an old professional with loads of experience in bull shitting and lying. lol
lol back atcha Aura.....

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129104 Oct 11, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I don't think many people actively disdain religious people, and I personally have no problem with a personal belief in god.
I do, however, take issue with those who make it their personal mission to spread their belief - a behavior that is highly encouraged in certain religions, christianity being one of them. And I am especially against those who try to impose the archaic notions of their religion on science and social policy. If someone wants to think that we are magical creations and that evolution is false, or if someone wants to think that gays shouldn't have equal rights, that's fine so long as they remain personal beliefs. They are stupid personal beliefs, but they are personal nonetheless. It's when people make it their mission to impose their beliefs on everyone else that it becomes a problem.
I completely understand your position.

The Mormons come every year to my house to invite me to their church. Now a days I don’t even answer the door. I’ve got a security camera. If I don’t know them. I don’t need to talk to them.

I’m not trying to be mean it’s just that I’m not interested. I think in today’s world there are better ways to invite people without coming across as a nuisance.

I don’t hate gays or wish them harm. They shouldn’t be discriminated in the work place. At the same time the work place is not a platform for them to market their lifestyle. In fact they need to keep their lifestyle personal.

I don’t want to know if someone is gay. It’s none of my business to start with. For example CNN’s Anderson Cooper came out that he was gay. In my opinion he used his job to promote a lifestyle. Work should be about work and nothing else. I think it was very inappropriate in my opinion.

I don’t know any Christian that is anti science. There are hundreds of science disciplines and I support them all. Saying Christians are anti science is a very broad statement and it’s untrue.

You choose not to believe. I’m ok with that decision of yours. We wouldn’t be free if we didn’t have a choice. My concerns are very similar to yours. I don’t want anyone trying to convert me and that includes atheist. I don’t want anyone trying to strip away my freedom of choice. Nor do I want anyone trying to stop my freedom of religion.

We have the right to believe or not to believe and I want to keep that freedom.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129105 Oct 11, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I completely understand your position.
The Mormons come every year to my house to invite me to their church. Now a days I don’t even answer the door. I’ve got a security camera. If I don’t know them. I don’t need to talk to them.
I’m not trying to be mean it’s just that I’m not interested. I think in today’s world there are better ways to invite people without coming across as a nuisance.
I don’t hate gays or wish them harm. They shouldn’t be discriminated in the work place. At the same time the work place is not a platform for them to market their lifestyle. In fact they need to keep their lifestyle personal.
I don’t want to know if someone is gay. It’s none of my business to start with. For example CNN’s Anderson Cooper came out that he was gay. In my opinion he used his job to promote a lifestyle. Work should be about work and nothing else. I think it was very inappropriate in my opinion.
I don’t know any Christian that is anti science. There are hundreds of science disciplines and I support them all. Saying Christians are anti science is a very broad statement and it’s untrue.
You choose not to believe. I’m ok with that decision of yours. We wouldn’t be free if we didn’t have a choice. My concerns are very similar to yours. I don’t want anyone trying to convert me and that includes atheist. I don’t want anyone trying to strip away my freedom of choice. Nor do I want anyone trying to stop my freedom of religion.
We have the right to believe or not to believe and I want to keep that freedom.
Have any of the gay people come to your front door?

I'll bet your security camera hasn't captured one lousy gay person.

Huh?

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129106 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just so you know.
I have been rapt with the U.S. Vice-presidential debate.
Biden did a very good job.
The VP did a hell of a good job. Like a dominant boxer. He was so powerful. His style was dominating the debate. But we can’t judge a debate by style alone.

Ryan had a less aggressive and less dominating style but yet he didn’t cower down in the corner. Nor did he let emotions trump his message. He was steady and confident.

Two different styles and two totally different messages for the American people. Had the economy been strong the last couple of years there would be no way the Republicans could win.

The economy has been a train wreck. I don’t think Romney can do miracles with it but I do believe he could improve it. This is going to be a real close race. Right now I think it’s a 50/50 chance for either candidate.

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129107 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Have any of the gay people come to your front door?
I'll bet your security camera hasn't captured one lousy gay person.
Huh?
The gay message doesn’t come to the door but through the TV. Most gays are busy trying to make a living like everyone else.

Eagle12

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#129108 Oct 11, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think there are politicians in office that want America to fail?
Isn't there a better way to make your point?
I do think some politicians are corrupt and they don’t have their constituents at heart. The State I’m living in is notorious for corruption. Two of our former State Governors are in prison. Not to mention the State finances have been plowed into the ground.

So to answer sometimes there are some who don’t care about the people they represent.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#129110 Oct 11, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> yes.
<quoted text> Never claimed authority. You have to be trained to understand abiogenesis? Only those trained? Isn't that like a cult? A secret society? You on the other hand speak on the Bible and when i asked you to read Exodus 1 you replied to post it and you will. Does that mean you do not even own a Bible? Does that mean you have no training on the Bible? Not one Theology class? My beliefs also speaks about hypocrisy. If i am dishonest it has nothing to do with rejection of abiogenesis or self created universe. One can reject these propositions on logic alone.
Being educated is being part of a Cult? I would ask how stupid you are, but you have answered that question! lol What a marron!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#129111 Oct 11, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I completely understand your position.
The Mormons come every year to my house to invite me to their church. Now a days I don’t even answer the door. I’ve got a security camera. If I don’t know them. I don’t need to talk to them.
I’m not trying to be mean it’s just that I’m not interested. I think in today’s world there are better ways to invite people without coming across as a nuisance.
I don’t hate gays or wish them harm. They shouldn’t be discriminated in the work place. At the same time the work place is not a platform for them to market their lifestyle. In fact they need to keep their lifestyle personal.
I don’t want to know if someone is gay. It’s none of my business to start with. For example CNN’s Anderson Cooper came out that he was gay. In my opinion he used his job to promote a lifestyle. Work should be about work and nothing else. I think it was very inappropriate in my opinion.
I don’t know any Christian that is anti science. There are hundreds of science disciplines and I support them all. Saying Christians are anti science is a very broad statement and it’s untrue.
You choose not to believe. I’m ok with that decision of yours. We wouldn’t be free if we didn’t have a choice. My concerns are very similar to yours. I don’t want anyone trying to convert me and that includes atheist. I don’t want anyone trying to strip away my freedom of choice. Nor do I want anyone trying to stop my freedom of religion.
We have the right to believe or not to believe and I want to keep that freedom.
Yes, Eagle, gay is a lifestyle choice. People one day wake up and think "I want to be openly mocked during my elementary and high school, then denied access to marriage in my adulthood and hated by unreasonable people." Then they just amazingly change their sexuality. I guess they want to be discriminated against, depressed and enjoy higher suicide rates in their club b/c people tell them they are wrong.

But, no, Eagle, creationist "Christians" are science deniers. Evolution is the framework theory of all the biological sciences. To deny it is to deny biological science. To deny the Big Bang and physics models of the universe is to deny science (something the Catholics don't do! Unreal, right!).

Not all Christians are literal creationists, though. The majority don't need to force fit their God into a world not supported by the evidence science has uncovered. Some of these Christians are scientists.

Mormons are nice. I like them. When they came to my door in the US, they asked if they could do my dishes. What a treat! Here in Japan, they are known as liars, though. They promise to provide "free English lessons" to draw people into their church - you can guess what happens then. Carrying out this "business model" has led to them being almost universally despised in Japan.

Sometimes they talk to me. When they find out I speak English, wow, are they happy! Then they get to hear about my atheist views and how rude I find them being in my culture, trying to change us. I'm not a super nice person when my private space is invaded at a train station by those promoting religion and lies (re: English lessons).

Atheists have never walked up do your door, right? I can't imagine going to your house and saying "hey, I'd like to talk to you about giving up your cherished beliefs."

(it's worth mentioning that here, this thread, is listed in the atheist forum, but I see it as neutral ground, where we can banter - so here, you are open game! mwahahahahaha)

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129112 Oct 11, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
The gay message doesn’t come to the door but through the TV. Most gays are busy trying to make a living like everyone else.
Yes, they are.

And you can turn off your TV. Or change the channel.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129113 Oct 11, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I do think some politicians are corrupt and they don’t have their constituents at heart. The State I’m living in is notorious for corruption. Two of our former State Governors are in prison. Not to mention the State finances have been plowed into the ground.
So to answer sometimes there are some who don’t care about the people they represent.
Illinois?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#129114 Oct 11, 2012
Gate Keeper 1 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, the
Hey, thanks for reading!

Gosh, if I am 15, you must be ashamed of yourself! You get pummeled every time you post. A 15 year old knows more about science than you do. Hell, I've forgotten more about science than you could have ever learned if you lived to be 900 years old.

And your writing sucks. Not only is it indicative of serious psychiatric issues - you really, really need help - but of a deeply impoverished education. You can barely write grammatical sentences. Your spelling cannot be called such.

The one thing you get right is to read each and every post of mine. Well done! Little by little, you are exposing yourself to information. And you read other poster's writings, too! From the good Al, you are learning Christianity. From DoubleFine, humility. From Catcher, how to be a gentleman. From IANS, how thoughtless your religion is (give it up!). From Black Thunder, just how unintelligent you are (but keep trying~chin up!). From HL, how to love. From Sharkey, wit and laughter. And many others offer you helpful advice, comments, suggestions for your life.

All these posters, here to teach you. We're so happy you're reading us. Trust me, we're not reading you.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129117 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Eagle, gay is a lifestyle choice. People one day wake up and think "I want to be openly mocked during my elementary and high school, then denied access to marriage in my adulthood and hated by unreasonable people." Then they just amazingly change their sexuality. I guess they want to be discriminated against, depressed and enjoy higher suicide rates in their club b/c people tell them they are wrong.
But, no, Eagle, creationist "Christians" are science deniers. Evolution is the framework theory of all the biological sciences. To deny it is to deny biological science. To deny the Big Bang and physics models of the universe is to deny science (something the Catholics don't do! Unreal, right!).
Not all Christians are literal creationists, though. The majority don't need to force fit their God into a world not supported by the evidence science has uncovered. Some of these Christians are scientists.
Mormons are nice. I like them. When they came to my door in the US, they asked if they could do my dishes. What a treat! Here in Japan, they are known as liars, though. They promise to provide "free English lessons" to draw people into their church - you can guess what happens then. Carrying out this "business model" has led to them being almost universally despised in Japan.
Sometimes they talk to me. When they find out I speak English, wow, are they happy! Then they get to hear about my atheist views and how rude I find them being in my culture, trying to change us. I'm not a super nice person when my private space is invaded at a train station by those promoting religion and lies (re: English lessons).
Atheists have never walked up do your door, right? I can't imagine going to your house and saying "hey, I'd like to talk to you about giving up your cherished beliefs."
(it's worth mentioning that here, this thread, is listed in the atheist forum, but I see it as neutral ground, where we can banter - so here, you are open game! mwahahahahaha)
You always say something some of us think and feel.

But you do it so much better....

Smooch.

Catcher1

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#129119 Oct 11, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, thanks for reading!
Gosh, if I am 15, you must be ashamed of yourself! You get pummeled every time you post. A 15 year old knows more about science than you do. Hell, I've forgotten more about science than you could have ever learned if you lived to be 900 years old.
And your writing sucks. Not only is it indicative of serious psychiatric issues - you really, really need help - but of a deeply impoverished education. You can barely write grammatical sentences. Your spelling cannot be called such.
The one thing you get right is to read each and every post of mine. Well done! Little by little, you are exposing yourself to information. And you read other poster's writings, too! From the good Al, you are learning Christianity. From DoubleFine, humility. From Catcher, how to be a gentleman. From IANS, how thoughtless your religion is (give it up!). From Black Thunder, just how unintelligent you are (but keep trying~chin up!). From HL, how to love. From Sharkey, wit and laughter. And many others offer you helpful advice, comments, suggestions for your life.
All these posters, here to teach you. We're so happy you're reading us. Trust me, we're not reading you.
But I'm reading you!

Hahaha.

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#129121 Oct 11, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You always say something some of us think and feel.
But you do it so much better....
Smooch.
Thanks, pal.

I say that on behalf of everyone who enjoy's Hiding's posts.

Without that second sentence, this could have been AWKWARD.

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