Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#128433 Oct 8, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct
Of course I am.

I am Double Fine, after all.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128434 Oct 8, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy.
Pay your own damn way.
'nuff said.
Not my place to decide how you people do healthcare, but it's worth pointing out that the USA has the worst health care system out of all developed nations, has the greatest number of un-medicated TB patients, the most people not under medical care and the greatest number of bankruptcies because of a lack of health care.

Also, the people of other developed nations, like the UK and Japan (yaay!) enjoy a longer lifespan that the people of the US, partly b/c of the mess that your health care system is in.

All other developed nations have some sort of government run health care system. Guess in which country health care costs the most of public money? The USA.

Well done! You built the developed nations' worst health care system and it's bankrupting you, because you insist on keeping it in the hands of parasitic HMOs.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128435 Oct 8, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"disciplines"??
Evolution is a discipline now?
Who's the disciple?
Evolution is the theoretical framework for the discipline of biology.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#128436 Oct 8, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
That's you. Neither would I. How about a mob of angry, agrieved people?
There is inciting a riot and there is appeasement, where are we at with the religious far right? If we have to give up our freedoms, then we are appeasing them and that never has worked yet.
Double Fine wrote:
Certainly. Violence is never condoned, and I think you misunderstood Christine. We don't condone violence, but we do advocate responsible people making responsible statements.
OK, what is his responsibility in this matter? Running into a crowded theater yelling, "Fire!", is one thing, making a movie that pokes fun at a myth is other.
Double Fine wrote:
Of course. But had I been the one spouting supremacist BS/anti-semitism to the wrong crowd and got hurt, I will have to take some of the blame.
How much? We have had the KKK march down the streets, of predominately black neighborhoods, without violence. If you do not tolerate the violence, then there will be no violence. If you allow it, give it credibility, then you are just asking for it.

"I strongly disagree with you, here. Feeling an emotions is normal, acting on it, in an unjustified/illegal way, is not."
Double Fine wrote:
Not normal or not legal?
In most places, we don't act out our emotions, if it is illegal to do so. So, it is not normal to act in an unjustified/illegal way.
Double Fine wrote:
Unjustified/illegal reaction to emotion is almost expected. Ever here about violence at sporting events? Road rage? Surely, it is not condoned, but one must remember that people are really easy to incite.
But it is not tolerated. Just because it happens, does not make it normal or even expected.

People are easy to incite! Especially when their actions are not met with society's disapproval.

If I was cheered for every time I smack some drive around for being a dumbass, I would be smacking people all day long! Both society and the law highly frown upon that, so I don't. I want to, but I don't because I want to be a part of society.

Radicals do not want to be a part of our global society and every time we let them get away with the murders and the bombings, we are giving their ways credence and the power to be even more deadly.
Double Fine wrote:
Nope. Not against the customer.
I don't know all the laws, but I am pretty sure that shitting, pissing, spitting, and flicking a boogie at someone, who does not want it, is against the law. We had a guy fart on a cop and he was charged with something over it.
Double Fine wrote:
Then good, you are a human being with empathy. Good for you - really. However, many people lack that.
There is a lot that I did not know, until I was shown.

Bottom line for me:

No one has the right to murder, especially just because they were offended.

Everyone has the right to speak their mind. No one forced them to watch the movie.

No country has the right to mark one of our citizens for death over a movie.

Religious laws mean nothing in my country.{Yeah, I know. We still have some, but we are working them out.}

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#128437 Oct 8, 2012
I bet I can scroll past his useless spam faster than you.
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I almost read two of Bob's posts. Then I didn't.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#128438 Oct 8, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Not my place to decide how you people do healthcare, but it's worth pointing out that the USA has the worst health care system out of all developed nations, has the greatest number of un-medicated TB patients, the most people not under medical care and the greatest number of bankruptcies because of a lack of health care.
Also, the people of other developed nations, like the UK and Japan (yaay!) enjoy a longer lifespan that the people of the US, partly b/c of the mess that your health care system is in.
All other developed nations have some sort of government run health care system. Guess in which country health care costs the most of public money? The USA.
Well done! You built the developed nations' worst health care system and it's bankrupting you, because you insist on keeping it in the hands of parasitic HMOs.
Japan is a lot more homogenous than the USA. You have people from all over the world, and their diseases and bad habits, converging on the USA. Probably the biggest mix in one Petri dish in the world. China, Japan, and most others don't have that issue of so many foreign introduced diseases.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#128439 Oct 8, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
There is inciting a riot and there is appeasement, where are we at with the religious far right? If we have to give up our freedoms, then we are appeasing them and that never has worked yet.
<quoted text>
OK, what is his responsibility in this matter? Running into a crowded theater yelling, "Fire!", is one thing, making a movie that pokes fun at a myth is other.
<quoted text>
How much? We have had the KKK march down the streets, of predominately black neighborhoods, without violence. If you do not tolerate the violence, then there will be no violence. If you allow it, give it credibility, then you are just asking for it.
"I strongly disagree with you, here. Feeling an emotions is normal, acting on it, in an unjustified/illegal way, is not."
<quoted text>
In most places, we don't act out our emotions, if it is illegal to do so. So, it is not normal to act in an unjustified/illegal way.
<quoted text>
But it is not tolerated. Just because it happens, does not make it normal or even expected.
People are easy to incite! Especially when their actions are not met with society's disapproval.
If I was cheered for every time I smack some drive around for being a dumbass, I would be smacking people all day long! Both society and the law highly frown upon that, so I don't. I want to, but I don't because I want to be a part of society.
Radicals do not want to be a part of our global society and every time we let them get away with the murders and the bombings, we are giving their ways credence and the power to be even more deadly.
<quoted text>
I don't know all the laws, but I am pretty sure that shitting, pissing, spitting, and flicking a boogie at someone, who does not want it, is against the law. We had a guy fart on a cop and he was charged with something over it.
<quoted text>
There is a lot that I did not know, until I was shown.
Bottom line for me:
No one has the right to murder, especially just because they were offended.
Everyone has the right to speak their mind. No one forced them to watch the movie.
No country has the right to mark one of our citizens for death over a movie.
Religious laws mean nothing in my country.{Yeah, I know. We still have some, but we are working them out.}
Almost off home, so I can't really type out the lengthy reply that your post (and this topic) deserves.

My point: Violent reaction may not be legal, but it happens.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128440 Oct 8, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Japan is a lot more homogenous than the USA. You have people from all over the world, and their diseases and bad habits, converging on the USA. Probably the biggest mix in one Petri dish in the world. China, Japan, and most others don't have that issue of so many foreign introduced diseases.
You've naively bought into what's called "Nihonjinron." And you're being naive about your health care system.

The UK and Canada have lots of immigrants - Canada's population only grows through immigration. They do not have the TB problems USA does. Neither countries have people going bankrupt because of health care.

Japan has lots of foreigners. They're just not visible because they're Asians. Well, the Brazilians are visible. Anyways, Japan also has among the highest population density per kilometer in the world, meaning that our potential for disease is much, much greater than yours - but we don't have it.

China is not a first world nation, except sort of in its main cities. It therefore doesn't count among the nations I'm speaking to: the G8 nations. China has massive problems and massive health problems (due mostly to pollution). Sure, you can compare your health care to theirs if you like.

On the world stage, US ranks around 30 - near Afghanistan in most health indicators.

You don't have an excuse. The worlds most powerful economy, cheap on its citizens. Afghanistan has an excuse, China has lots, American, none.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#128441 Oct 8, 2012
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
Almost off home, so I can't really type out the lengthy reply that your post (and this topic) deserves.
My point: Violent reaction may not be legal, but it happens.
I understand that and I understand that humans can be really emotional and stupid. I don't believe that we should walk around on egg shells for the mussies or anyone else.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#128442 Oct 8, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I didn't say he was going to China. I said China is going to be USA in bio-tech.
2. No. There are not plenty of scientists who don't think evolution happened. There aren't any, actually. There might be some old school medical doctors - but these are not scientists.
3. Evolution is the framework theory of all biological sciences. It unifies all biological phenomena under one explanatory model. No scientist doubts that evolution took place and is taking place. There are plenty of scientists who are Christians, but they're not creationists - they know evolution is ongoing.
4. There are something like 5 trained biological scientists who infer Intelligent Design. They still believe evolution happened and is happening, but they add a designer. They are honest about admitting they do not have a formal scientific theory of Intelligent Design, though. If they were critical thinkers, they'd realize they cannot formulate one - science cannot test the untestable.
5. Evolution the observation is directly, objectively testable.
6. Evolution the theory explains evolution the observation. Do you understand points number 5 and 6?
"A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time – 87% say evolution is due to natural processes, such as natural selection. The dominant position among scientists – that living things have evolved due to natural processes – is shared by only about third (32%) of the public."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_ev...

There are scientists that don't support (believe in) evolution.

I understand 5 & 6, but how is a theory about a million year old 'believed' species "testable"?

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#128443 Oct 8, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
We are all ignorant of something. You just happen to be ignorant of science. I'm ignorant about lots of non-evolution stuff.:)
:)
:)
I'm not ignorant of science. I have limited knowledge of it but I'm by no means ignorant of it.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#128444 Oct 8, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Japan has lots of foreigners. They're just not visible
wooooah!!

Invisible Japs....

We're flucked!

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#128445 Oct 8, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Not my place to decide how you people do healthcare, but it's worth pointing out that the USA has the worst health care system out of all developed nations, has the greatest number of un-medicated TB patients, the most people not under medical care and the greatest number of bankruptcies because of a lack of health care.
Also, the people of other developed nations, like the UK and Japan (yaay!) enjoy a longer lifespan that the people of the US, partly b/c of the mess that your health care system is in.
All other developed nations have some sort of government run health care system. Guess in which country health care costs the most of public money? The USA.
Well done! You built the developed nations' worst health care system and it's bankrupting you, because you insist on keeping it in the hands of parasitic HMOs.
I haven't "built" anything. Obama will tell you that he built it all. LOL

I don't have health insurance. It's a rip off. They charge way too much for the mediocre services they provide.

I would not want a government run health care system. It's not their job to run a business, it's their job to run a government.

I don't know if Japanese & UKians live longer or not, that's disputable.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#128446 Oct 8, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You've naively bought into what's called "Nihonjinron." And you're being naive about your health care system.
The UK and Canada have lots of immigrants - Canada's population only grows through immigration. They do not have the TB problems USA does. Neither countries have people going bankrupt because of health care.
Japan has lots of foreigners. They're just not visible because they're Asians. Well, the Brazilians are visible. Anyways, Japan also has among the highest population density per kilometer in the world, meaning that our potential for disease is much, much greater than yours - but we don't have it.
China is not a first world nation, except sort of in its main cities. It therefore doesn't count among the nations I'm speaking to: the G8 nations. China has massive problems and massive health problems (due mostly to pollution). Sure, you can compare your health care to theirs if you like.
On the world stage, US ranks around 30 - near Afghanistan in most health indicators.
You don't have an excuse. The worlds most powerful economy, cheap on its citizens. Afghanistan has an excuse, China has lots, American, none.
The American health care system is run on greed. By doctors, insurance companies, and lawyers. The reason IANS left. His god status was reduced by the insurance companies.

I was pointing out the environment in America is just inherently more dangerous healthwise. These aren't tourists being funneled through a general society like most places, or underpopulated places like Canada. You have cultures from all over the world establishing themselves here that then interact with the larger population in a populous country. You just have more available things to ruin your health, from diseases you haven't been exposed to, the breeding ground for new one to develop, and the social aspects, such as heavy drinking and drugs that contribute to a higher health risk and damages that result from such. Which puts a bigger financial burden on the whole than would occur in less cosmopolitan places.

Add the hospitals with cracks, crevices, ventilations systems, and all sorts of places almost impossible to sterilize for those collections of organisms to evolve.

Plus the different life expectancies of those cultures affecting the overall rate. Don't forget, America is the refuge for the huddled masses.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128447 Oct 8, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time – 87% say evolution is due to natural processes, such as natural selection. The dominant position among scientists – that living things have evolved due to natural processes – is shared by only about third (32%) of the public."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_ev...
There are scientists that don't support (believe in) evolution.
I understand 5 & 6, but how is a theory about a million year old 'believed' species "testable"?
Hmmm, that's a Pew Research Center poll from: http://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/sectio...

They included people trained in medicine who are part of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)- I'd like to see which scientists disagreed with evolution. I would bet it would be the medical ones or those utterly not involved in biological research. Medicine hails from a dualist tradition - but us evolutionary theorists are challenging that, showing that they're wrong, and changing the field. It's a work in progress, but in the future, medicine will be unified by evolution, as all biological sciences are.

There is no competing theory to evolution to explain evolution the observation. Evolution literally is "allelic frequency change over time." It is directly observable, objectively measurable. The theory exists to explain it.

Evolution has never been disproved, not once.

To answer your question. We have the fossil record. How much of it do you understand? Fossils get older the deeper you dig; younger species are closer to the surface (after the geological law of original horizontality; things are buried from oldest to newest).

So we know how old specimens are. We can work out their morphology - based on morphology, we can draw up relationships based on similarity. For example, your shoulders are a ball and socket joint that can rotate 360 degrees. You can turn around on the X-axis if you're hanging by one arm. The same is true of all the great apes, and monkeys, but not true of other mammals, like canines and felines. So we know that humans fit into the primate clade (group), based on this one morphological observation (there are many that make us primates; that are only shared by primates that we have).

Second, on some specimens we can sequence their genetic material. The genes and, more importantly, the mutations and genetic insertions (from viruses and bacteria) can be compared to any species we can sequence - and we can draw up lines of relationships here, too (b/c non-coding sequences build up mutations. If these are shared between species, they are related.).

If species did not have evolutionary relationships, if species were separately created, we would not observe what we observe in nature. Chickens would not be carrying around ancient reptilian genes that are turned off (you can turn them back on and get reptilian leg bones instead of bird bones) if they were separately created. That chickens have reptilian genes in them tells us they share genetic material with reptiles - they have a phylogeny that stretches back to a shared ancestor in the remote past with reptiles.

So we observe all these lines of evidence that demonstrate species must be related to those in the past and each other. Not a single shred of evidence suggests that species were separately created.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128448 Oct 8, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not ignorant of science. I have limited knowledge of it but I'm by no means ignorant of it.
Uhm..."ignorant" literally means "does not know." From google:

"ig·no·rant/&#712;ign &#601;r&#601;nt/
Adjective:
Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular: "ignorant of astronomy"."

Just as I am uneducated in religion and dishwashing, you are uneducated in biological science.

:)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128449 Oct 8, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't "built" anything. Obama will tell you that he built it all. LOL
I don't have health insurance. It's a rip off. They charge way too much for the mediocre services they provide.
I would not want a government run health care system. It's not their job to run a business, it's their job to run a government.
I don't know if Japanese & UKians live longer or not, that's disputable.
omg! Get some health insurance - you don't want to go bankrupt!

It's not disputable. It's fact - just pick up any statistics on lifespan in different nations. Here, from the CIA:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-...

US is ranked 50th. 7 of the G8 nations are before it. Oh...woops, that makes the US dead last in the G8. It doesn't fair well in the G20, either...

Having national health care is not the gov't telling you how to take care of yourself, but the public protecting itself from corporations from profiteering of illness. Everyone gets old and sick - companies can only make money on health care by cutting corners, ripping customers off and overselling products.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128450 Oct 8, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
wooooah!!
Invisible Japs....
We're flucked!
I am filming you even now.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128451 Oct 8, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The American health care system is run on greed. By doctors, insurance companies, and lawyers. The reason IANS left. His god status was reduced by the insurance companies.
I was pointing out the environment in America is just inherently more dangerous healthwise. These aren't tourists being funneled through a general society like most places, or underpopulated places like Canada. You have cultures from all over the world establishing themselves here that then interact with the larger population in a populous country. You just have more available things to ruin your health, from diseases you haven't been exposed to, the breeding ground for new one to develop, and the social aspects, such as heavy drinking and drugs that contribute to a higher health risk and damages that result from such. Which puts a bigger financial burden on the whole than would occur in less cosmopolitan places.
Add the hospitals with cracks, crevices, ventilations systems, and all sorts of places almost impossible to sterilize for those collections of organisms to evolve.
Plus the different life expectancies of those cultures affecting the overall rate. Don't forget, America is the refuge for the huddled masses.
Oh. Ok, that's true. All hospitals have cracks, though. Japanese hospitals have poor to no ventilation. I wonder if that actively stops pathogens from spreading?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#128452 Oct 8, 2012
My time for bed, young men and ladies. Good night!

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