Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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#128078
Oct 6, 2012
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
"And God said,“Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so." Genesis 1:9
WOW! God evaporates a mud puddle!
ROFLMAO
The God effect.

"Hey, our pond is gone because of this drought!"

"The God effect."

"Ah, what can you do?"

"Call the insurance company."

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#128079
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
Here, this is a simple description of arky methods, starting at part three for you. Please look at the pictures:
You must assume everyone who does not see things the way you do is stupid, which would include me with you ignorant assumptions. In 127949 you stated river to blood as figurative and did not answer my question. Dismissed as opinion.
1. they are trained professionals.
And they have agendas and assumptions like you do. You have mininalists who are revisionists which assumes little or no support for biblical history. They denied Davidic kingdom until discoveries put them in th minority on that one. If they are wrong about David, why should we assume they are right about Moses and the Exodus? They also suggest Israel was created in the Hellenistic period.(323BC-146 or 31BC) Here are some of the players.
http://bibleapologetics.wordpress.com/tag/min...
You don't just fly out to Israel and say "hey, I'd like to dig up Jericho. Yeah. Really. Thanks." They spend their undergraduate doing digs. Their graduate degree doing digs. Their summers doing digs. Then they get paid to do digs.
2. they write down their research methodologies in two places: on their grant applications and in their peer reviewed, published data.
Yawn.
Just because you are utterly ignorant about all things archaeology doesn't mean that archaeologists don't know what they're doing.
Everybody is ignorant except you and the minimalists. Got that.
Don't! Go read them. Go read replications of study. Read their backgrounds - are they biased? Do they have religious affiliation? Who is supporting their research? What have they done before?
Thanks. Have no interest in digging in dirt with toothbrushes. Might be right up your alley since the scenario comes off a just a little anal.
hahahahahahahaha!!! That's great. Thanks :)
Yeah you think the Bible is all a joke. Got that. Put it on your resume.
Yeah, so the date is totally off in the Bible because the editor lied, adding sites that didn't exist then so that his people would identify with the Holy text. No surprise here - I mean, look how you believe him.
Revionist opinion.
B/c I'm honest,
1000 years from now someone like you will proclaim the holocaust was all fiction or reduce the numbers of actual dead.

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

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#128080
Oct 6, 2012
 
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. hi ya, my little poophead..
.. drawbacks? Very few. No caffeine, no drugs, no alcohol, no sex outside of marriage, 10% tithe, 3 hour Sunday worship, 2-hour Monday family night, regular Priesthood (Males) or Relief Society meetings (females), morning/evening pray, grace before every meal ..........
.. know you're exited now! Who wouldn't be? PM me your address and phone number and we'll have two young, handsome church elder missionaries (male or female) visit you. Best of all, you'll receive a FREE Book of Mormon. Reserve your place in the Celestial Kingdom today !!..
Woops, my mistake! That religion is not for me. I drink coffee every day, enjoy alcohol, have lots of sex outside of marriage, don't tithe, laugh at Sunday worship - though I'd like the family night - not a big fan of sexism.

I've talked to Mormon boys a few times. They're usually quite nice, but about as stupid as ... the religiously indoctrinated can get while being naive about the world, since they're fresh from the pews. They offered to do my dishes. I got rid of them by saying "I'm an atheist, but if I was going to be a Christian, by gosh, I would be a Mormon!"

I laughed. They laughed. And they left.:)
:)
:)

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

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#128081
Oct 6, 2012
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
No, hiding...
Black holes are those things you chased in prison....
poly told us all about it.
Unlike you I don't have experience in prison. What's it like?

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#128082
Oct 6, 2012
 

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LMAO Hiding. My shoes are brown.
...
Your shirt is pink
...
ooooo gotcha!

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#128083
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Besides the blue shoes, pink shirt & prison jokes (which I've never been to, either).
You still can't prove a black hole OR dark matter...
So then why are they "explanations" for f_ucked up calculations?
I thought you atheists were very logical...

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

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#128084
Oct 6, 2012
 
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. hi ya, my little poophead..
.. drawbacks? Very few. No caffeine, no drugs, no alcohol, no sex outside of marriage, 10% tithe, 3 hour Sunday worship, 2-hour Monday family night, regular Priesthood (Males) or Relief Society meetings (females), morning/evening pray, grace before every meal ..........
.. know you're exited now! Who wouldn't be? PM me your address and phone number and we'll have two young, handsome church elder missionaries (male or female) visit you. Best of all, you'll receive a FREE Book of Mormon. Reserve your place in the Celestial Kingdom today !!..
But wait there's more.....

You need to have your brain surgically removed.

Since: Sep 10

San Clemente, CA

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#128085
Oct 6, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> <quoted text> 1000 years from now someone like you will proclaim the holocaust was all fiction or reduce the numbers of actual dead.
Shame on you.

Since: Sep 10

San Clemente, CA

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#128086
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlike you I don't have experience in prison. What's it like?
Most state prisons are not very nice places.

I have experience.

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

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#128087
Oct 6, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
LMAO Hiding. My shoes are brown.
...
Your shirt is pink
...
ooooo gotcha!
I'm not wearing a shirt :p

A fleece - it's cold here today!

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#128088
Oct 6, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
That's just what the people who read Ancient Egyptian say. You know, I suppose a people who write using pictures might not be figurative. I guess that's possible. Perhaps the experts are wrong, as you claim they are for any matter regarding your dearly held beliefs?
Speaking from personal experience, kanji is figurative. It's a less obvious kind of figurative than Hieroglyphics, but it's still figurative. When you read it you don't hear words, you just see symbols. But, hey, don't believe me. Just go learn how to read Chinese or Japanese. It will only take you 3 years of practices 3 hours a day - but I'm here for you :)
<quoted text>
I was referring to the papyrus, not the Temple of Solomon.
You are aware that the Ancient Egyptians wrote stuff down, right? If half a million Jews all left at once, and these people were responsible for building the pyramids, it would have been noted. So would the military loss in the Red Sea. So would the first borns.
''I don't know of any surviving papyrus documents from Egypt's delta, says Hoffmeier. It's too wet. And papyrus [made from the reed like plant of the same name] is where most of the records were kept. The inscriptions we see on statues temple facades tend to be propaganistic, what-we-want-you-to-know messages. And where papyrus records have survived they tend to be from the desert areas. So we have very few of the day to day court records of 3,000 years of Egyptian history.''

While direct evidence is missing there is circumstantial evidence.
http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1998/september7/8...

This article quotes the scholars.

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

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#128089
Oct 6, 2012
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Besides the blue shoes, pink shirt & prison jokes (which I've never been to, either).
You still can't prove a black hole OR dark matter...
So then why are they "explanations" for f_ucked up calculations?
I thought you atheists were very logical...
Do we need to discuss "prove" in science again? What's your attention span? How many sentences can I write before you lose interest?

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#128090
Oct 6, 2012
 
Oh....
....
two or tree...

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#128091
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Doe, a deer, a female deer...
...
C'mon, EVERYBODY!
...
Ray, a drop of golden sun.....

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

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#128092
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
Here, this is a simple description of arky methods, starting at part three for you. Please look at the pictures:
lightbeamrider wrote:
You must assume everyone who does not see things the way you do is stupid, which would include me with you ignorant assumptions.
Uhm, you said you didn't understand how arky works.So I linked you to some of its methods.

I don't actually think you're stupid, LB. I think you have poor tools for understanding the world around you.

Look, science is just "one way of knowing about the world." So are the various religions. They are both valid ways of living and understanding the universe around you.

The benefit of science is that it's efficacious. It is our best tool for producing new knowledge and technology.

Your strange religion of creationism denies us this powerful tool because your religious leader's political power is threatened by scientific education - for all the same reasons you creationists on here are upset about Exodus.

The thing you fail to realize is, again and again, that the specifics in your Bible don't have to be accurate for your belief in God to remain intact and spiritually fulfilling. You don't have to engage in all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain the vast problems in the Bible (the miserable morality of the OT, for ex)- it came from a different time.

You don't realize this because you want your god small. You tie it to an ancient mythology and forcefit the world to it rather than exploring what "God is a mystery" means within the context of faith and reality as it is.

If you read religious scholars - the kind that work at the top universities (like Oxford), not the fakes who write on Creationist websites - they've already gone to the point where they no longer take the Bible literally. It frees up their ability to interpret the Bible, to use it metaphorically, as a guide for the problems of today. It allows them to look across religions, find similar truths and kinship and a common human spirituality - this you are entirely unable to do.

Because you insist that a book of myth is literally, factually correct, ignore all and any evidence to the contrary and insist, beyond all reason, that you have "the one, true religion."

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

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#128093
Oct 6, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point. That's why I posted links to archaeologist's discussing their findings that the pyramid laborers weren't slaves. You subsequently denied this without any evidence.
I'm curious, does the Bible actually say "The Jews built those damn pyramids"? I ask for two reasons:
1. If not, there's no reason (for you) to argue that the pyramid laborers were slaves
2. Egypt had slaves, they were just doing other stuff. dorms, not houses.
I have admitted that some Egyptians built the pyramids. Some were engineers, taskmasters or skilled craftsman.
There are many pyramids in Egypt. Notice the reference below on,“The Black Pyramid.”
{ although encased in limestone, is made of mud brick and clay instead of stone}.
Wiki:
The Black Pyramid was built by King Amenemhat III during the Middle Kingdom of Egypt (2055-1650 BC). It is one of the five remaining pyramids of the original eleven pyramids at Dahshur in Egypt. Originally named Amenemhet is Mighty, the pyramid earned the name "Black Pyramid" for its dark, decaying appearance as a rubble mound. The Black pyramid was the first to house both the deceased pharaoh and his queens. Jacques de Morgan, on a French mission, began the excavation on the pyramids at Dahshur in 1892. The German Archaeological Institute of Cairo completed excavation in 1983.
The pyramid was originally about 75 meters tall with a base 105 meters long and an incline of 57°. Typical for pyramids of the Middle Kingdom, the Black Pyramid, although encased in limestone, is made of mud brick and clay instead of stone. The ground level structures consist of the entrance opening into the courtyard and mortuary temple, surrounded by walls. There are two sets of walls; between them, there are ten shaft tombs, which are a type of burial structure formed from graves built into natural rock. The pyramidion, which is the capstone of a pyramid, was covered with inscriptions and religious symbols. Some of these were scratched off, leading researchers to conclude the pyramidion was never used or it was defaced during Akhenaten's rule.
Exodus 1:
11. So they set over [the Israelites] taskmasters to afflict and oppress them with [increased] burdens. And [the Israelites] built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.
12. But the more [the Egyptians] oppressed them, the more they multiplied and expanded, so that [the Egyptians] were vexed and alarmed because of the Israelites.
13. And the Egyptians reduced the Israelites to severe slavery.
14 They made their lives bitter with hard service in mortar, brick, and all kinds of work in the field. All their service was with harshness and severity.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/462...
Pithom, Egyptian Per-Atum or Per Tum (“Estate of Atum”), probably modern Tall al-Maskh&#363;&#7789;a h, ancient Egyptian city located near Ismailia in Al-Ism&#257;&#703; &#299;liyyah mu&#7717;&#257;fa& #7827;ah (governorate) and mentioned in the Bible (Exodus 1:11) as one of the treasure houses built for the pharaoh by the Hebrews prior to the Exodus. Although Pithom has been identified as Tall al-Maskh&#363;&#7789;a h, excavations at the site have revealed that, aside from an unfortified outpost of the Hyksos period, the earliest layers do not predate the 7th century bce. The monuments of Ramses II that in the past have been used as a dating criterion for the site were apparently transported to Tall al-Maskh&#363;&#7789;a h, perhaps by the kings of the 30th dynasty (380–343 bce), to adorn this later city.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/490...
This conclusion, however, is at variance with most of the biblical and archaeological evidence. The storage cities Pit&#7717;om and Rameses, built for the pharaoh by the Hebrews, were located in the northeastern part of the Egyptian delta, not far from Goshen, the district in which the Hebrews lived.

“In the beginning God Created..”

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Southern Illinois

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#128094
Oct 6, 2012
 
I have admitted that some Egyptians built the pyramids. Some were engineers, taskmasters or skilled craftsman.

There are many pyramids in Egypt. Notice the reference below on,“The Black Pyramid.”

{ although encased in limestone, is made of mud brick and clay instead of stone}.

Wiki:

The Black Pyramid was built by King Amenemhat III during the Middle Kingdom of Egypt (2055-1650 BC). It is one of the five remaining pyramids of the original eleven pyramids at Dahshur in Egypt. Originally named Amenemhet is Mighty, the pyramid earned the name "Black Pyramid" for its dark, decaying appearance as a rubble mound. The Black pyramid was the first to house both the deceased pharaoh and his queens. Jacques de Morgan, on a French mission, began the excavation on the pyramids at Dahshur in 1892. The German Archaeological Institute of Cairo completed excavation in 1983.

The pyramid was originally about 75 meters tall with a base 105 meters long and an incline of 57°. Typical for pyramids of the Middle Kingdom, the Black Pyramid, although encased in limestone, is made of mud brick and clay instead of stone. The ground level structures consist of the entrance opening into the courtyard and mortuary temple, surrounded by walls. There are two sets of walls; between them, there are ten shaft tombs, which are a type of burial structure formed from graves built into natural rock. The pyramidion, which is the capstone of a pyramid, was covered with inscriptions and religious symbols. Some of these were scratched off, leading researchers to conclude the pyramidion was never used or it was defaced during Akhenaten's rule.

Exodus 1:

11. So they set over [the Israelites] taskmasters to afflict and oppress them with [increased] burdens. And [the Israelites] built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh.

12. But the more [the Egyptians] oppressed them, the more they multiplied and expanded, so that [the Egyptians] were vexed and alarmed because of the Israelites.

13. And the Egyptians reduced the Israelites to severe slavery.

14 They made their lives bitter with hard service in mortar, brick, and all kinds of work in the field. All their service was with harshness and severity.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/462...

Pithom, Egyptian Per-Atum or Per Tum (“Estate of Atum”), probably modern Tall al-Maskh&#363;&#7789;a h, ancient Egyptian city located near Ismailia in Al-Ism&#257;&#703; &#299;liyyah mu&#7717;&#257;fa& #7827;ah (governorate) and mentioned in the Bible (Exodus 1:11) as one of the treasure houses built for the pharaoh by the Hebrews prior to the Exodus. Although Pithom has been identified as Tall al-Maskh&#363;&#7789;a h, excavations at the site have revealed that, aside from an unfortified outpost of the Hyksos period, the earliest layers do not predate the 7th century bce. The monuments of Ramses II that in the past have been used as a dating criterion for the site were apparently transported to Tall al-Maskh&#363;&#7789;a h, perhaps by the kings of the 30th dynasty (380–343 bce), to adorn this later city.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/490...

This conclusion, however, is at variance with most of the biblical and archaeological evidence. The storage cities Pit&#7717;om and Rameses, built for the pharaoh by the Hebrews, were located in the northeastern part of the Egyptian delta, not far from Goshen, the district in which the Hebrews lived.

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

Since: Mar 11

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#128095
Oct 6, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
Yeah you think the Bible is all a joke. Got that. Put it on your resume.
Your argument was a joke. Screaming at me "it's scripture!" as if that carries some weight is laughable on so many levels.

Your veiled threat here is nice, though. I will. I one day will put that on my resume.
1000 years from now someone like you will proclaim the holocaust was all fiction or reduce the numbers of actual dead.
Coward - I name you coward for writing this.

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#128096
Oct 6, 2012
 
Hiding, why do you think that because a person is religious they have to refuse science? That's foolsih.
You know the Vatican has it's own observatory &*science dept? It's one of the oldest astronomical researxh centers in the world.

“I won, I won, I won!!!”

Since: Mar 11

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#128097
Oct 6, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> ''I don't know of any surviving papyrus documents from Egypt's delta, says Hoffmeier. It's too wet. And papyrus [made from the reed like plant of the same name] is where most of the records were kept. The inscriptions we see on statues temple facades tend to be propaganistic, what-we-want-you-to-know messages. And where papyrus records have survived they tend to be from the desert areas. So we have very few of the day to day court records of 3,000 years of Egyptian history.''
While direct evidence is missing there is circumstantial evidence.
http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/1998/september7/8...
This article quotes the scholars.
Thank you - that led me to this paper:

"Herodotus is called the “father of historians” for his Histories about the war between the Greeks and Persians. Abraham is dated about 2000 BC and his stories in the bible seem as detailed as those of the exodus, which is even more astonishing considering it is the story about only a single family’s travels. This is 1500 years before Herodotus! Why should Herodotus have the accolade as the “father of history” when whole chunks of bible are so much older? Why isn’t Moses the father of history, if he wrote the Torah about 1400 BC? The reason is simple. Herodotus had the title because he was indeed the father of history, and the bible was not written in its modern form until at least two centuries after Herodotus. The bible was actually influenced by the Histories of Herodotus, and also by Homer, as several scholars have shown, but no biblicist will accept."

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/truth/340Lichtman.php

Remember, I wrote 'anachronistic"?

Gosh I hope you understand that word now.

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