Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 257121 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128124 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
:)
Hey!
It's me :)
Ha, I thought you were civil enough. Very patient you are with this one.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#128125 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> There were at least 10 judgements after the Israelites left Egypt. In Joshua the people who entered were the next generation along with Joshua and Calab. Even Moses died off. I don't know, off hand if there is a number count in Joshua.
I just finished reading that article you posted - it's interesting and presents a thoughtful perspective from the "Bible is accurate" side (except for their hilarious "but you don't have to take it literally if that doesn't work" caveat that I discussed above).

I found this disturbingly thoughtless: "Such discoveries have theological implications, says Hoffmeier. "There is a lot at stake here. The New Testament interweaves the salvific events of the Old Testament into it in such a way that Jesus the Passover Lamb loses significance if there is no historical Passover."

Even if Exodus is just a story, it's a story that was believed as history up until very recently. That story would have acted to create the Passover regardless of the veracity of its claims.

It's likely there is some truth to Exodus. It's very likely that some Jews were slaves. It's likely some escaped - maybe even wandered for a while. The miracles are unlikely, the promised land doesn't appear true (the arky suggests the Jews were living in Israel for a pretty long time), the numbers must be incorrect.

None of that changes the importance of the story to the Jewish people, nor the importance of the metaphor. Diaspora is a defining feature of Jewish cultural heritage - the Exodus story, factually real, partially real, entirely fictional - is deeply important to their cultural identity and, given the last 1000 years and interaction with Europe, continues to be powerfully meaningful and relevant.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128126 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
They are not capable of seeing how their passion and zeal in denouncing religion displays their irrationality. They don't understand it is that fanaticism which makes them so unlovable, not their personal belief for or against. There is no gray in their views. If you are theist or deistic, you are automatically a creationist. Snarl, snap, snap. No rational discussion with them. Absent the religion, they will find something else to snarl and snap against. It ain't the message, it's the messengers with the problem.
Dave, you couldn't learn to love me?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#128127 Oct 6, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>You are going to have to realize that, despite what you may believe, you aren't going to change any minds by citing biblical evidence. I know, I know, it's unfair, us godless heathens won't give your book a fair shake, but please humor us with more substantial information.
I still can't believe it every time I read a post from you that quotes the bible. I should have learned by now.
It is not about changing minds here. Why do you assume that? At least get the facts right so as you know what you do not believe. There are other here besides hardened atheists. It is mostly about them and refuting lies as it relates to my beliefs. You guys so self centered you think it is all about you.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#128128 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The simple fact is dark energy and matter came about because gravity as calculated could not account for the motions of the stars. Something like 95% of visible mass was missing?
That's a large margin of error. I would have looked for other things, like EM.
Gravity's strongest force is the asshole sucking in math heads.
You think that EM wasn't considered? Really? LMAO

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#128129 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Oh, I don't deny that some Israelites were likely held as slaves by the Ancient Egyptians, but I deny that the Bible is 100% historically accurate.
Reductionist. Like saying i don't deny some Jews were killed in the holocaust but the numbers are way overblown.
Even your own article that you posted suggested that 1 million people very likely didn't survive in the desert for 40 years.
That is the opinion of one person quoted in the article.
Were the first born sons of the Jewish slaves murdered in Egypt? I wasn't aware that was in the Bible, sorry. That doesn't make a lot of sense, though. If you're a slave owning people, you kind of want those valuable first born sons.
Read Exodus 1-2.
Yes, I will not accept your book of myth as evidence. So it's laughable when you write "it is scripture!" as if that should somehow sway an argument.
It is not all about you.
Oh, some parts of the Bible have some historical truths in them.
Yet you have to be careful about accepting it as accurate - it's a book that is designed to promote a cultural identity for the Jews. Several different versions were stitched together by an editor hundreds of years after the events described - and he altered them. We know this, Bible scholars know this - and here you are claiming it's 100% accurate???
You are overstating the case. Name some parts that were stitched together. There are factual mistakes in the New. I will not point them out to you.
I'm sorry, LB, this isn't Sunday school. You'll have to do better than that. Or don't. Perhaps this is your limitation.
What is your limitation? Don't answer that. They come across as obvious anyway.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128130 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> It is not about changing minds here. Why do you assume that? At least get the facts right so as you know what you do not believe. There are other here besides hardened atheists. It is mostly about them and refuting lies as it relates to my beliefs. You guys so self centered you think it is all about you.
"Hardened atheists." Lol. Funny term.

So, you are here solely to selflessly offer your services to the defense of your belief against the lying, hardened atheists?

And sorry if changing minds was the wrong term. Perhaps I should have said if you want people to take you seriously, stop citing scripture.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128131 Oct 6, 2012
"At least get the facts right so as you know what you do not believe."

Hiding, I need this translated.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128132 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Reductionist. Like saying i don't deny some Jews were killed in the holocaust but the numbers are way overblown.
You do enjoy making comparisons to holocaust denial.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128133 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
You are overstating the case. Name some parts that were stitched together.
Wasn't it you who was just proclaiming the numerous authors of the bible, and the long period of time during which it was written, as "proof?"

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#128134 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The simple fact is dark energy and matter came about because gravity as calculated could not account for the motions of the stars. Something like 95% of visible mass was missing?
Not quite stated correctly. The basic equations of general relativity hold. The question is how much matter and energy are around. The *visible* part is not all of the matter around. As others have pointed out, there are types of ordinary matter that would qualify for some parts of dark matter. But the majority of it doesn't interact strongly with light, since otherwise it would have a temperature reflecting that fact. The observed velocity curves show that either our understanding of gravity is wrong or there is additional matter out there that we don't see. The first possibility has been considered, but it turns out to be incredibly difficult to both explain the velocity curves we see *and* stay consistent with what we know about the solar system. Even the alternative ideas about gravity require dark matter to explain what we actually see. E&M effects don't do the job since they also would show up as temperature (and hence light) from the surrounding material.
That's a large margin of error. I would have looked for other things, like EM.
Gravity's strongest force is the asshole sucking in math heads.
Well, gravity works quite well if you include all the matter, both seen and unseen.

What people don't seem to get is that we *know* of particles that do not interact strong with light. Neutrinos were, in fact, a prime candidate for dark matter except that they don't have the mass required. They are almost, but not quite massless. But, a heavy version of neutrinos would fit perfectly. other candidates are axions and photinos. All of these are distinct possibilities in the particle theories we now have, which are also very tightly constrained by the observed evidence.

Your 95% figure is not for dark matter alone. it includes both dark matter and dark energy. Since the latter was a part of Einstein's ideas from the start, it is hardly an unconsidered possibility before the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the universe. Where the dark energy is anything more than simply a energy density of the vacuum or whether it has more dynamics is yet to be seen. Whether dark energy (not dark matter) can be explained away is also yet to be seen. But dark matter is a clear aspect of cosmology.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#128135 Oct 6, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Dave, you couldn't learn to love me?
Depends on the shape of your ass.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#128136 Oct 6, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You think that EM wasn't considered? Really? LMAO
Not well enough evidently. Did you read that link I posted a little while ago?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128137 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Depends on the shape of your ass.
So shallow, Dave. I would have thought that a trail blazer like yourself would be open to whatever form god chose for me.

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#128138 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
They are not capable of seeing how their passion and zeal in denouncing religion displays their irrationality. They don't understand it is that fanaticism which makes them so unlovable, not their personal belief for or against. There is no gray in their views. If you are theist or deistic, you are automatically a creationist. Snarl, snap, snap. No rational discussion with them. Absent the religion, they will find something else to snarl and snap against. It ain't the message, it's the messengers with the problem.
I was wondering when Dave and LightBeam would become bedfellows.

Since: Sep 10

Hermosa Beach, CA

#128139 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> There were at least 10 judgements after the Israelites left Egypt. In Joshua the people who entered were the next generation along with Joshua and Calab. Even Moses died off. I don't know, off hand if there is a number count in Joshua.
Say hi to Calab for me.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#128140 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not well enough evidently. Did you read that link I posted a little while ago?
Because everyone is wrong until they agree with you.

Since: Mar 11

Portage, MI

#128141 Oct 6, 2012
Lulz! Epic win! Thanks and btw I will be using these :)
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Sometimes, it takes a little sophistication to understand what you are seeing:
An Amish boy and his father were visiting a mall. They were amazed by almost everything they saw, but especially by two shiny silver walls that could move apart and back together again.
The boy asked his father, "What is this father?" The father, having never seen an elevator, responded, "Son, I have never seen anything like this in my life. I don't know what it is!"
While the boy and his father were watching wide-eyed, an old lady in a wheel chair rolled up to the moving walls and pressed a button. The walls opened and the lady rolled between them into a small room. The walls closed and the boy and his father watched small circles of light with numbers above the wall light up. They continued to watch the circles light up in the reverse direction. The walls opened up again and a beautiful 24-year-old woman stepped out.
The man said to his son, "Go get your mother!"
========== I opened my favorite jokes file for that. Here's a few more:
(30) The captain of a commercial jet made an announcement over the cabin's PA system informing the passengers that the Grand Canyon was now visible out of the left side of the airplane.
He set his hand set down, not realizing that the voice activation button was still depressed, and that he was still broadcasting to the cabin. He turned to his copilot, and jokingly commented that he could sure use a cup of coffee and a blow job about then. Everybody in the cabin heard him.
In horror, the stewardess began running toward the cockpit to apprise the captain of the situation. As she runs past him, a passenger on the aisle shouts, "Don't forget the coffee!"
(33) A woman has the images of her favorite sex symbols - Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise - tattooed to the insides of her thighs. When the artist is finished, the woman looks down and expresses her dismay at the poor job that he has done.
The artist points out that she is in no position to judge his work, since she is seeing it upside down. So they agree to let a third party – the first one to walk by the tattoo shop - be the final arbiter.
That just happens to be a street drunk, who is stumbling by at that moment. They beckon the drunk enter, and to please try to identify the celebrities between the woman’s legs. He agrees.
After a few seconds of staring, reeling, and squinting the drunk announces,“I can't say who the two on the ends are, but the one in the middle is the spittin’ image of Willie Nelson.”
(33) My neighbor discovered that her pet schnauzer could hardly hear, so she took it to the veterinarian. The poor dog’s ear hairs were all tangled and matted, so the vet cleaned them both out, and the dog could hear fine. He told the lady that if she wanted to keep this from reoccurring she should go to the store and get some Nair, a hair remover, and rub in its ears once a month.
The lady goes to the drug store as instructed to get some Nair for her dog. At the register, the druggist tells her, "If you're going to use this under your arms, don't use deodorant for a few days."
The lady says, "I'm not using it under my arms."
The druggist says, "Well then, if you're going to be using it on your legs, I recommend that you not wear hose for a few days."
The lady says, "I'm not using it on my legs either. If you must know, I'm using it on my schnauzer."
The druggist then says, "In that case, lady, you should probably stay off your bicycle for a few days.”

Since: Mar 11

Portage, MI

#128142 Oct 6, 2012
Just give us some string, magnets, a rubber chicken, a plunger, a copy of hustler and a quart of whiskey out in the garage and we'll come up with your insanity as well.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny coming from a guy whose only reality is from the books he reads.
That is how it flows, and the origination of it. On a physical basis.
Give us a physical description the way you KNOW it without the numbers and references to equations and theories, etc.
.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#128143 Oct 6, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>So shallow, Dave. I would have thought that a trail blazer like yourself would be open to whatever form god chose for me.
I go by what form a god would choose for me. If it was outside my programming, it would have to let me know. I will not second guess it.

Besides, soft tails are more comfy than hard tails.

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