Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“Michin yeoja”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#127926 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, alright. I renounce my evil ways. Buddha caused Exodus.
Buddha loves Luther Campbell.

Buddha love you long time.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127927 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Jewish scholars freely acknowledge that but you creatoinists are science and history deniers, so it's part of your religion to dismiss evidence.
You seem to believe the universe created itself which is logical absurdity. If that makes me a denier of Science then i wear your indictment as a badge of honor. You also believe in life on other planets out there somewhere. SETI is still waiting for that magical signal!
Ah...the Egyptian sources also discredit the Bible's passages.
What Egyptian source discredits Bible passages.
Well, when the writers add cities that they knew about that could not have existed during the happenings of their writing then, yes, we dismiss the writing as fantasy.
This is where you discredit yourself. That is easily explained. Take New York for example. It was initially New Amsterdam [?]. Some scribe probably changed the name so the audience would know the location. Not some extinct city no one knew of. Critics come along and say the city did not exist at that time so it is late dated. It's hyper criticism and garbage.
Yes, and then I apologized and admitted my mistake, while noting that scholars have said "you have to have faith to connect those two stories."
You got to have faith the universe created itself or life came from inert elements. Now who is anti science? Now who believes in miracles?
You've never posted a non-apologetic opinion that uses actual evidence to back up your beliefs.
I make use of academics -
Selective. Most of your posts are opinion. Most come from apologetic websites who have academics on them. They cite sources. They do research. Do you look at the sources?
many of whom are Jewish and whom you would assume would have vested interests in supporting their Holy writings. That they don't is telling:
Many are atheist.
1. they're more honest than you and your religion
You start with the premise Christianity is a lie and Christians are liars and go from there. If Fred the drunk down the street was an atheist and could pontificate your points then Fred would have more credibility with the crowd here than a Biblical scholar who believed the Exodus happened. Enough of your wrapping yourself around all the honest scholars and all that claptrap. They are all over the board on this one. All you have to do is look at Scripture. 1 Kings 6:1. Establish the time Solomon started to build the Temple and back date it 480 as it says in the text! Then you have the time of the Exodus. Not 146 or so years after that date!
2. they have higher standards in evidence based research
3. they're critical thinkers and can separate religious versus scientific knowledge
Then why can't they do the math?
I even posted material from the Jewish government acknowledging that the Bible isn't accurate and discussing what that means to their identity as a nation.
You aren't even capable of engaging in such a learned discussion.
It has more to do with my position than my capacity. Learned discussion. Go learn that things cannot create themselves.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127928 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
"Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make."
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipu...
No ''leap of faith'' is required. All one has to do is compare the Exodus account with this Egyptian text to see the obvious similiarities. The river to blood is in both. What is the Egyptian author describing? Slaves revolting. What event is the Egyptian describing? The land dark. All this and more jibes with the Exodus account.''Not everyone is willing to make'' subsequently means many are willing to make. If not everyone is willing to make then who is willing to make? That is what happens when an authentic document is produced which jibes with Exodus account. It is dismissed! Explained away. No one know the date!(Appeals to ignorance!) Any number of excuses and hiding asks how does the document add validation to the Exodus accounts?

Since: Jan 12

USA

#127929 Oct 6, 2012


Middle East sources confirm the Bible time after time.


Babylon and the Bible
by Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD

Two hundred years ago, scholars doubted whether Babylon ever existed. The only record could be found in the Bible. Critics used the story of Babylon, and what they called its "non-historic kings," to discount Scripture. However, Babylon was discovered and excavated in 1898.

We know today that Babylon was one of the first cities in the world, and founded by Nimrod, great-grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:9-10). Archaeologists have found his name on many inscriptions and tablets, while a massive head of Nimrod has been excavated near Calah on the Tigris River.
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_arc...


Sumeria is located in the Land of Kish (Kush or Cush) founded by son of Noah's son Ham.


"Kish was occupied beginning in the Jemdet Nasr period (3100 BC), gaining prominence as one of the pre-eminent powers in the region during the early dynastic period.

The Sumerian king list states that it was the first city to have kings following the deluge, beginning with Jushur."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kish_%28Sumer%29


"Cush, son of Ham. The Empire of Kush to the south of Egypt is known from at least 1970 BC, but this name has also been associated by some with the Kassites who inhabited the Zagros area of Mesopotamia, the Sumerian city of Kish in the Land of Kish."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah#Ham...


"The Sumerian Kish, the first city established in Mesopotamia after the Flood, took its name from the man known in the Bible as Cush. The first kingdom established after the Flood was Kish, and the name "Kish" appears often on clay tablets. The early post-Flood Sumerian king lists say that "kingship descended from heaven to Kish" after the Flood."


continues:
http://davelivingston.com/nimrod.htm
and
http://www.noahs-ark.tv/noahs-ark-flood-creat...

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#127931 Oct 6, 2012
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21711191/co...

A description of why they think dark matter exists.

To fit their model.

You wouldn't have those continuous issues if you changed your model. The model is based on gravity, and particles that mysteriously produce it.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#127932 Oct 6, 2012
Col Klink wrote:
Middle East sources confirm the Bible time after time.
Babylon and the Bible
by Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD
Two hundred years ago, scholars doubted whether Babylon ever existed. The only record could be found in the Bible. Critics used the story of Babylon, and what they called its "non-historic kings," to discount Scripture. However, Babylon was discovered and excavated in 1898.
We know today that Babylon was one of the first cities in the world, and founded by Nimrod, great-grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:9-10). Archaeologists have found his name on many inscriptions and tablets, while a massive head of Nimrod has been excavated near Calah on the Tigris River.
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_arc...
Sumeria is located in the Land of Kish (Kush or Cush) founded by son of Noah's son Ham.
"Kish was occupied beginning in the Jemdet Nasr period (3100 BC), gaining prominence as one of the pre-eminent powers in the region during the early dynastic period.
The Sumerian king list states that it was the first city to have kings following the deluge, beginning with Jushur."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kish_%28Sumer%29
"Cush, son of Ham. The Empire of Kush to the south of Egypt is known from at least 1970 BC, but this name has also been associated by some with the Kassites who inhabited the Zagros area of Mesopotamia, the Sumerian city of Kish in the Land of Kish."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah#Ham...
"The Sumerian Kish, the first city established in Mesopotamia after the Flood, took its name from the man known in the Bible as Cush. The first kingdom established after the Flood was Kish, and the name "Kish" appears often on clay tablets. The early post-Flood Sumerian king lists say that "kingship descended from heaven to Kish" after the Flood."
continues:
http://davelivingston.com/nimrod.htm
and
http://www.noahs-ark.tv/noahs-ark-flood-creat...
Wally Veith?

The nutritionist and Seventh-Day-Adventist fundamentalist nutter?

Sheesh.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127933 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You seem to believe the universe created itself which is logical absurdity.
Wonderful. You have made a positive claim. Now back it up with evidence, or at least mathematical models.

Thanks :)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127934 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> This is where you discredit yourself. That is easily explained. Take New York for example. It was initially New Amsterdam [?]. Some scribe probably changed the name so the audience would know the location. Not some extinct city no one knew of. Critics come along and say the city did not exist at that time so it is late dated. It's hyper criticism and garbage.
You're being ... ignorant here. New York, New Amsterdam didn't always exist. You know this, right? Once, a long time ago, there was no city where New York now stands.

The same thing is true of Jericho (and other cities mentioned in the Bible). Only, unlike you, our early Bible editors and writers weren't aware of that - they literally were ignorant. They assumed, incorrectly, that the cities they were aware of always existed.

Do you know how we know that? Cities are built upon previous dwellings, upon previous dwellings, upon previous dwellings and eventually upon the earth.

It was a very simple matter for archaeologists to just keep digging and dating Jericho. Eventually they, too, found the beginnings of the city - and guess what? They dated it.

No city existed where Jericho did when the Bible claims it was there.

Let's pretend you can think critically with regards to your own religion. I know you cannot, but let's pretend you can. You ask "why wasn't there a city when the Bible says there was, Hiding?" And I respond, "well, we both know that 3 different writers wrote Exodus. Later, one editor wove the stories together and tried to make the work. He didn't know that Jericho did not always stand where it was and so anachronistically (do you know what this word means???) added it."

Anachronistic means "putting items out of time or before their time." It's like writing a novel where the main character is listening to ABBA in 1940. That would be incorrect; an anachronistic error. Your Bible editors were anachronistic because they didn't have access to information the way we do. They just added whatever cities and details that they knew at the time - that's how Bible scholars can tell that it was edited (and edited poorly), out of time.

You're welcome.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127935 Oct 6, 2012
EMS Servant wrote:
<quoted text>
I have yet to see anyone mention anything regarding Leiden Payprus #344 aside the allegation that it is fiction. Was Leiden Payprus #344 already discussed? If so it shouldn't be that hard to list at least one historian who has come to that conclusion as I had requested.
"The association of the Ipuwer Papyrus with the Exodus as describing the same event is generally rejected by Egyptologists."

Stiebing, William H.(1989). Out of the Desert: Archaeology and the Exodus/Conquest Narratives. Prometheus. p. 121.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#127936 Oct 6, 2012
A trailblazer is one that cuts a path for others to follow and develop. That path becomes an extension of the known universe to be explored, and the center of that known universe. New paths are then cut from those following it, but that first path becomes the most followed and heavily traveled and developed. Gets too big to abandon.

There is a certain inertial quality to that.

The same happens with scholarship. The first to study set the guidelines for others to follow. The followers build from that. If the first is off course a tad, you will have the following just push it further, right or wrong, the best way or not the best way. Inertia.

This happened with physics, and the disciplines derived from it, including cosmology. Newton, Faraday and Maxwell, Thompson, and Einstein. Newton established gravity as the base because of complex math. It became a puzzle for math heads more than observation. Thompson created the particle.

Physics doesn't want to change its base. Inertia. All of the training and data would have to be re-analyzed. You have little paths that have been cut leading to the desired destination, but the mass follows the most heavily traveled, even if it goes nowhere but to a mountain overlooking the destination. Almost but not quite.

Physics started out "spirit" based. It got sidetracked to "material" based. It will revert to "spirit" based, but with a greater understanding of "spirit".

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127937 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you dear sir!:)
Dave is the ignorant foil we use to answer questions. Honestly, I'd like a somewhat more informed, less insane foil, but this is what we got stuck with. Answering his level is a bit insulting to the readers, since they'd generally have greater education and not be delusional, but oh well. Sorry readers.
The more inane Dave's comment, the more fundamental your answer needs to be, which is what most of us need to read.

Polymath's posts are aimed at the first year science student. He tells you that magnet aligned oppositely have less pull on a third object than magnets aligned alike. That's pretty elementary. But it needed to be said to Dave. Again and again, and to no benefit to him. But if you read the posts, you learn.

It's the same with your material. It varies from basic to intermediate. That's good.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127938 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
"Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make."
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipu ...
lightbeamrider wrote:
No ''leap of faith'' is required. All one has to do is compare the Exodus account with this Egyptian text to see the obvious similiarities.
If you're a believer, you're free to ignore language differences, cultural meaning and historical times.
The river to blood is in both. What is the Egyptian author describing?
That drinking from the river doesn't quench thirst - i.e., there was no respite from the drought and hunger. That's apparently what it meant in Ancient Egyptian. It was figurative.
Slaves revolting. What event is the Egyptian describing? The land dark. All this and more jibes with the Exodus account.''Not everyone is willing to make'' subsequently means many are willing to make. If not everyone is willing to make then who is willing to make? That is what happens when an authentic document is produced which jibes with Exodus account. It is dismissed! Explained away. No one know the date!(Appeals to ignorance!) Any number of excuses and hiding asks how does the document add validation to the Exodus accounts?
Uh...the date is known - why do you need to lie?

Where did it say "all the Jewish slaves are leaving"? You think they'd notice a glaring detail such as that.

Or "all our firstborn children are dead. That sucks."

Or "wow. Our army just got wiped out when it thought, without much discussion, to chase the Israelites through an ocean that seemed to just part for them. In hindsight, that was a bad idea."

No, Lightbeam, you're the one reaching here - doing anything at all to support your religion. But that's exactly what we expect - no critical thinking, no self-reflexive thinking (and yes, I mean "reflexive" and not reflective. Look it up).

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127939 Oct 6, 2012
Col. Klink. All your sources are fraudulent apologists.

Guess what, baby?

You know nothing!
Col Klink wrote:
Middle East sources confirm the Bible time after time.
Babylon and the Bible
by Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD
Two hundred years ago, scholars doubted whether Babylon ever existed. The only record could be found in the Bible. Critics used the story of Babylon, and what they called its "non-historic kings," to discount Scripture. However, Babylon was discovered and excavated in 1898.
We know today that Babylon was one of the first cities in the world, and founded by Nimrod, great-grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:9-10). Archaeologists have found his name on many inscriptions and tablets, while a massive head of Nimrod has been excavated near Calah on the Tigris River.
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_arc...
Sumeria is located in the Land of Kish (Kush or Cush) founded by son of Noah's son Ham.
"Kish was occupied beginning in the Jemdet Nasr period (3100 BC), gaining prominence as one of the pre-eminent powers in the region during the early dynastic period.
The Sumerian king list states that it was the first city to have kings following the deluge, beginning with Jushur."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kish_%28Sumer%29
"Cush, son of Ham. The Empire of Kush to the south of Egypt is known from at least 1970 BC, but this name has also been associated by some with the Kassites who inhabited the Zagros area of Mesopotamia, the Sumerian city of Kish in the Land of Kish."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah#Ham...
"The Sumerian Kish, the first city established in Mesopotamia after the Flood, took its name from the man known in the Bible as Cush. The first kingdom established after the Flood was Kish, and the name "Kish" appears often on clay tablets. The early post-Flood Sumerian king lists say that "kingship descended from heaven to Kish" after the Flood."
continues:
http://davelivingston.com/nimrod.htm
and
http://www.noahs-ark.tv/noahs-ark-flood-creat...

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127940 Oct 6, 2012
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
"The association of the Ipuwer Papyrus with the Exodus as describing the same event is generally rejected by Egyptologists."
Stiebing, William H.(1989). Out of the Desert: Archaeology and the Exodus/Conquest Narratives. Prometheus. p. 121.
Nicely said.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127941 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>Refuse to accept Scripture as evidence for anything other than myth.
well it is a myth

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127942 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
One question: what is "oral anal sex"??
Sex with a SpongeBob NoPants. Sponges mouths and ani are the same pore.

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

#127943 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You seem to believe the universe created itself which is logical absurdity.
Please show the relative support of the above statement you made.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127944 Oct 6, 2012
River Tam wrote:
A kid walked by his mother's bedroom and saw her on the bed masturbating, saying, "Oh god, I need a man. Oh god, I need a man".

Two nights later, he walked by his mom's room and a naked man walked out, excused himself, went to the bathroom, urinated and walked back into his mom's room and closed the door. The boy immediately went back to his room, started masturbating furiously saying, "Oh god, I need a bicycle. Oh god, I need a bicycle."
Sometimes, it takes a little sophistication to understand what you are seeing:

An Amish boy and his father were visiting a mall. They were amazed by almost everything they saw, but especially by two shiny silver walls that could move apart and back together again.

The boy asked his father, "What is this father?" The father, having never seen an elevator, responded, "Son, I have never seen anything like this in my life. I don't know what it is!"

While the boy and his father were watching wide-eyed, an old lady in a wheel chair rolled up to the moving walls and pressed a button. The walls opened and the lady rolled between them into a small room. The walls closed and the boy and his father watched small circles of light with numbers above the wall light up. They continued to watch the circles light up in the reverse direction. The walls opened up again and a beautiful 24-year-old woman stepped out.

The man said to his son, "Go get your mother!"

========== I opened my favorite jokes file for that. Here's a few more:

(30) The captain of a commercial jet made an announcement over the cabin's PA system informing the passengers that the Grand Canyon was now visible out of the left side of the airplane.

He set his hand set down, not realizing that the voice activation button was still depressed, and that he was still broadcasting to the cabin. He turned to his copilot, and jokingly commented that he could sure use a cup of coffee and a blow job about then. Everybody in the cabin heard him.

In horror, the stewardess began running toward the cockpit to apprise the captain of the situation. As she runs past him, a passenger on the aisle shouts, "Don't forget the coffee!"

(33) A woman has the images of her favorite sex symbols - Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise - tattooed to the insides of her thighs. When the artist is finished, the woman looks down and expresses her dismay at the poor job that he has done.

The artist points out that she is in no position to judge his work, since she is seeing it upside down. So they agree to let a third party – the first one to walk by the tattoo shop - be the final arbiter.

That just happens to be a street drunk, who is stumbling by at that moment. They beckon the drunk enter, and to please try to identify the celebrities between the woman’s legs. He agrees.

After a few seconds of staring, reeling, and squinting the drunk announces,“I can't say who the two on the ends are, but the one in the middle is the spittin’ image of Willie Nelson.”

(33) My neighbor discovered that her pet schnauzer could hardly hear, so she took it to the veterinarian. The poor dog’s ear hairs were all tangled and matted, so the vet cleaned them both out, and the dog could hear fine. He told the lady that if she wanted to keep this from reoccurring she should go to the store and get some Nair, a hair remover, and rub in its ears once a month.

The lady goes to the drug store as instructed to get some Nair for her dog. At the register, the druggist tells her, "If you're going to use this under your arms, don't use deodorant for a few days."

The lady says, "I'm not using it under my arms."

The druggist says, "Well then, if you're going to be using it on your legs, I recommend that you not wear hose for a few days."

The lady says, "I'm not using it on my legs either. If you must know, I'm using it on my schnauzer."

The druggist then says, "In that case, lady, you should probably stay off your bicycle for a few days.”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127945 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
You're being ... ignorant here. New York, New Amsterdam didn't always exist. You know this, right? Once, a long time ago, there was no city where New York now stands.
The same thing is true of Jericho (and other cities mentioned in the Bible). Only, unlike you, our early Bible editors and writers weren't aware of that - they literally were ignorant. They assumed, incorrectly, that the cities they were aware of always existed.
Do you know how we know that? Cities are built upon previous dwellings, upon previous dwellings, upon previous dwellings and eventually upon the earth.
It was a very simple matter for archaeologists to just keep digging and dating Jericho. Eventually they, too, found the beginnings of the city - and guess what? They dated it.
I don't know how they determined the location from the Bible or how they dated the city. Only a handful of alleged experts do. They could have made any number of errors. We do not know how they operate. Why should we take their claims on faith? On the other hand you have Scripture. The established date for the building of the temple of Solomon is 966BC. 480 years back from that date is 1446 BC. They figure the the Exodus happened 1445BC. Add 40 or so years to that and you are around 1405BC. Everybody can understand that compared to the ''experts'' who dig up dirt and somehow determine dates which do not jibe with biblical history.
No city existed where Jericho did when the Bible claims it was there.
According to you and a sub group of experts. In your case why should i believe you or anybody when i know you have noting but contempt for my beliefs along with Judiac beliefs in regards to the Exodus in the first place? You are the one who assumes it is all myth. And let me tell you something, it is not only Christianity, it is also Judaism and Jewish history you demonstrate contempt for. Reducing it all to invented myth to keep everybody together. Your explanation is condescending. You use the big stick of Science to browbeat opposition. Anyone, including the experts who does not buy the majority report are more or less fools or are backpeddling. The method alone is elitest and creates suspicion.
Let's pretend you can think critically with regards to your own religion. I know you cannot, but let's pretend you can. You ask "why wasn't there a city when the Bible says there was, Hiding?" And I respond, "well, we both know that 3 different writers wrote Exodus.
Condescending.
Later, one editor wove the stories together and tried to make the work. He didn't know that Jericho did not always stand where it was and so anachronistically (do you know what this word means???) added it."
Now you mock Jewish history Judaism and Christianity. They are making things up! That is just base assumption which basicially assumes the ancients did not really know what they were doing.
Anachronistic means "putting items out of time or before their time." It's like writing a novel where the main character is listening to ABBA in 1940. That would be incorrect; an anachronistic error. Your Bible editors were anachronistic because they didn't have access to information the way we do. They just added whatever cities and details that they knew at the time - that's how Bible scholars can tell that it was edited (and edited poorly), out of time.
You're welcome.
Who is we? A subgroup of alleged ''experts'' who operates on principals nobody understands to establish dates and places. All history for thousands of years is wrong and they are right. Is that it? Thanks but no thanks.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127946 Oct 6, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Funny, poly. I have a book that says the Exodus IS real...
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your "evidence".
Do you have any archaeological evidence supporting the Exodus? No. it is a myth: a nationalistic propaganda piece.

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