Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Since: Sep 10

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#127885
Oct 5, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Dave, calm down, I never said that EM wasn't a force in the universe, nor did I say that there are no magnetic fields in the galaxy. I jokingly said that there was a giant magnet, as in a literal fridge magnet, in the center of the galaxy. Look at you getting all excited.
Dave has had a long day.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

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#127886
Oct 5, 2012
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/category/bla...
You will not see a black hole. You may see illustrations of what they think is there based upon gravity attractions, and you guessed it, EM observations using EM devices.
All of those guesses are based upon models they assume are correct based upon other models based on other models, and so on, based upon mathematical assumptions. Derived from observations here.
They are projecting what they want to see.
BS Dave , BH evidence is based on observed gravitational effects by invisible objects in space . These effects are a prediction of GR and they are pretty much a known effect and property of space/time geometry otherwise known as the gravitational singularity. Until they were observed they were based on models , now that they have been discovered , they present and display other unexplainable phenomena. But we will eventually understand them also.
KJV

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#127887
Oct 5, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, what is dark matter then?

Uhm...what are they actually monitoring if not black holes?

Oh wise one, tell us all!
"Physics Experiments at Soudan

Physics experiments at Soudan focus on three major topics: the stability of matter (nucleon decay), the nature and interaction patterns of the cosmic rays and particles called neutrinos, whose properties are a sensitive test of the mechanisms of the fundamental interactions. Scientists working at Soudan have collected data on all three of these questions for several years. These studies will likely continue for at least a few more years. In addition, a large collaboration of scientists has proposed a major new initiative to measure neutrino mass, which would send a beam of neutrinos 730 km through the earth from Fermilab, near Chicago, to the laboratory at Soudan. A large new detector would be added to the current instrumentation at the Soudan Laboratory, if this plan is approved.

Experimenters working on different physics questions share use of the apparatus and often work together, using the same data. Currently, the major instrumentation at Soudan is the Soudan 2 detector is a 1,000 ton device optimized to search for proton decay. It is located in a 690 m deep underground laboratory on the 27th level of the Soudan Mine. A 60 square meter energy detector, located on the earth's surface near the entrance to the Soudan Mine, and a nearby array of sensitive light detectors, which measure atmospheric light generated by cosmic rays, work with the underground detector. In addition, the proposed neutrino mass experiment would use a new detector called MINOS, which would be located in an new underground room adjacent to the existing laboratory."
KJV

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#127888
Oct 5, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, what is dark matter then?

Uhm...what are they actually monitoring if not black holes?

Oh wise one, tell us all!
"The Need for an Underground Facility

The Soudan Laboratory is one of a handful of deep underground physics laboratories located at sites around the world. The major reason for the deep underground location is to shield very sensitive energy detectors from cosmic rays, naturally raining down on the earth from outer space. These cosmic ray particles deposit tiny flashes of energy in all matter which they traverse. A large number of such flashes can easily overwhelm sensitive experiments which are done in deep underground labs, masking the expected effects.
In an underground facility, the number of cosmic ray particles is considerably reduced by absorption in the rock above. At the Soudan lab, the number of cosmic ray particles is cut by a factor of 100,000 from the number at the surface. As a result, the current Soudan 2 detector needs to cope with only a few million interruptions per year due to cosmic rays rather than the trillions of cosmic rays per year that would pass through a similar detector on the earth's surface.

Underground physics labs similar to the one at Soudan but with different experiments are located in mines in South Dakota, Ontario and Japan. There are also deep underground physics labs in Russia, France and Italy, which are located underneath mountains and accessed by long, horizontal tunnels.

Physics Underground

Most underground physics experiments study the nature of the fundamental forces between the tiniest bits of matter. There are four such forces or interactions. Scientists believe that all of them are likely related. The weakest of these interactions is gravity, the force which is familiar to us as both the reason why objects fall towards the earth's surface and why the earth and the other planets move in orbits around the sun. A second familiar force is electromagnetism, which is responsible for electromagnets and magnetic compasses and all forms of electricity. The strongest of the four forces is the strong or nuclear force which binds the nuclei of atoms together. The last force, known as the weak interaction, is important for the thermonuclear or burning reactions which power our Sun and for some very slow, radioactive decays.

Understanding these forces is important for several reasons. Two of these forces, electromagnetism and the strong force, are the basis for much of the 20th Century technology that enormously affects our daily lives. For example, electromagnetic waves form the basis for television and other modes of communications. Electromagnetism also plays a key role in determining the behavior of semiconductors, which implement all kinds of electronics. The strong or nuclear force determines the technology for release of nuclear energy, either by fission or by thermonuclear fusion. Past experience suggests that tomorrow's technologies will likely be built on the base of today's science. Advances will be based, among other things, on discoveries about the fundamental interactions.

A second reason is that these forces are key to answering the important questions which people have asked for millenia. How was the universe formed? What will eventually happen to it? Is there a beginning or an end to either space or time? The fundamental forces are also important to answering recent questions such as: Will the universe expand forever? Does matter live forever? Is there dark matter? The knowledge related to all of these questions is part of our culture. One role of science is to contribute to our humanity by advancing our worldwide culture."

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#127889
Oct 5, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave has had a long day.
It would seem so.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

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#127890
Oct 5, 2012
 

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G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks!
You're welcome and thank you for your writing :)

Since: Sep 08

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#127891
Oct 5, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK Dave.
Max Planck told me to inform you that it's time to abut your positive end to the negative end of your bottom sheet.
Or you may end up hating yourself in the morning.
One last sermon before I go to bed.

About magnetic energy.

I think it is something like only 10% of the total magnetic strength of a magnet escapes the surface. The rest flows through the material of the magnet.

The assumed dynamo for the earth;s field is down near the outer core. Somewhere around 1000 miles. The field it generates goes out far enough so that when the solar wind blows the magneto tail, it sometimes slaps the moon, inducing a heavy static charge on its surface. It also captures high speed charged particles from space.

This is not a weak force.

They take the reading from the surface of the earth, which they say is very small. Of course it would be, because the crust is a secondary magnet. You are reading it. The flux originates way below it and keeps going, magnetizing material in the crust, in addition to tidal forces and cosmic magnetic fields inducing magnetic fields in that same crust. This is that rock thing experiment no one wants to try.

The heliosphere and the galactic magnetic field are two of those cosmic fields. Then you have those nice iron cores of the earth. So you have the mix of magnetic fields interacting on the surface. Wrapping and twisting in mostly a regular pattern. You are part of that pattern. Caught in it, and affecting it. Be advised that thought is EM.

It gets more complicated, but I am going to bed.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

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#127892
Oct 5, 2012
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, I have an archeology book written by a couple of Israeli scholars who acknowledge that the Exodus is a fairy tale.
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your viewpoint.
Poly, what is this gas hot:

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2012/halo/

And, does physics work differently at those temperatures?

(and why wasn't that predicted - it seems obvious if the early universe was full of hot plasma and, as it cooled, some of that turned into stars. You'd get left over plasma + gas being ejected from stars as a background)

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#127893
Oct 5, 2012
 
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> BS Dave , BH evidence is based on observed gravitational effects by invisible objects in space . These effects are a prediction of GR and they are pretty much a known effect and property of space/time geometry otherwise known as the gravitational singularity. Until they were observed they were based on models , now that they have been discovered , they present and display other unexplainable phenomena. But we will eventually understand them also.
Have faith, Aura, have faith.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

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#127894
Oct 5, 2012
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Physics Experiments at Soudan
Physics experiments at Soudan focus on three major topics: the stability of matter (nucleon decay), the nature and interaction patterns of the cosmic rays and particles called neutrinos, whose properties are a sensitive test of the mechanisms of the fundamental interactions. Scientists working at Soudan have collected data on all three of these questions for several years. These studies will likely continue for at least a few more years. In addition, a large collaboration of scientists has proposed a major new initiative to measure neutrino mass, which would send a beam of neutrinos 730 km through the earth from Fermilab, near Chicago, to the laboratory at Soudan. A large new detector would be added to the current instrumentation at the Soudan Laboratory, if this plan is approved.
Experimenters working on different physics questions share use of the apparatus and often work together, using the same data. Currently, the major instrumentation at Soudan is the Soudan 2 detector is a 1,000 ton device optimized to search for proton decay. It is located in a 690 m deep underground laboratory on the 27th level of the Soudan Mine. A 60 square meter energy detector, located on the earth's surface near the entrance to the Soudan Mine, and a nearby array of sensitive light detectors, which measure atmospheric light generated by cosmic rays, work with the underground detector. In addition, the proposed neutrino mass experiment would use a new detector called MINOS, which would be located in an new underground room adjacent to the existing laboratory."
Questions:

1. what does this brochure have to do with my questions?
2. why didn't you just paste the link: http://www.hep.umn.edu/soudan/brochure.html

3. why are you writing this to me?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#127895
Oct 5, 2012
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
One last sermon before I go to bed.
About magnetic energy.
I think it is something like only 10% of the total magnetic strength of a magnet escapes the surface. The rest flows through the material of the magnet.
The assumed dynamo for the earth;s field is down near the outer core. Somewhere around 1000 miles. The field it generates goes out far enough so that when the solar wind blows the magneto tail, it sometimes slaps the moon, inducing a heavy static charge on its surface. It also captures high speed charged particles from space.
This is not a weak force.
They take the reading from the surface of the earth, which they say is very small. Of course it would be, because the crust is a secondary magnet. You are reading it. The flux originates way below it and keeps going, magnetizing material in the crust, in addition to tidal forces and cosmic magnetic fields inducing magnetic fields in that same crust. This is that rock thing experiment no one wants to try.
The heliosphere and the galactic magnetic field are two of those cosmic fields. Then you have those nice iron cores of the earth. So you have the mix of magnetic fields interacting on the surface. Wrapping and twisting in mostly a regular pattern. You are part of that pattern. Caught in it, and affecting it. Be advised that thought is EM.
It gets more complicated, but I am going to bed.
You may be interested to hear about my son's high school science project. The effect of powerful magnets on the development of rats.

A micro experiment.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

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#127896
Oct 5, 2012
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Have faith, Aura, have faith.

No faith needed, you creotards just can't survive with that concept can you?

Since: Mar 11

Florence, KY

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#127897
Oct 5, 2012
 
Of course because your preacher tells you to.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>You have no proof the Exodus didn’t happen.

I’m standing on the Biblical account. Which was not written last week but thousands of years ago.

The fact the Jews celebrate the Passover and have for thousands of years.

Slavery was common place for the period.

The insurmountable task of building the pyramids required massive amounts of labor.

No nation could afford to pay thousands of employees during the time period and remain solvent.

There're political reasons and cause not to bring forth further evidence in reference to the Exodus.

Plagues are not impossible and have happened throughout history.

Egypt was a super power. Then it slid into a third world status. What caused this slide? A. Exodus.

Wondering 40 years in the desert is a very insignificant amount of time when you compare it to ethnic groups that have lived thousands of years in one region.

Very little archeological excavating and searching has been conduct outside of the pyramids. Some perhaps but not near enough to support the claims of no Exodus.

The Exodus happened, sorry that it goes against what you believe but it did happen.

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#127898
Oct 5, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You could convince me Exodus happened, especially if we found:
What does convincing you have to do with anything?
- Egyptian records discussing the capturing of Israel and the enslaving of its people
- Egyptian records discussing the mass "exodus" of Israelites (half a million people just leave their society and they don't notice???)
- Egyptian records bewailing the fact that every single firstborn just died (quite an odd medical mystery, wouldn't you say?)
- if the Bible story on Exodus was written by one person instead of three plus a "redactor" who tried to unify the various accounts and, through his anachronistic additions, made it look even worse
- if we didn't have evidence that the Jews were already in the region in the time that Exodus purports to have happened
They are wrong on the dates. Folks in your camp do not take into account 1 Kings 6:1 which took place 966BC. 480 gets you back to around 1446BC. Late daters got it at 1290 which is about a 156 year difference. They figure the Exodus took place in 1445BC. Amenhotep II was Pharaoh and no match for his father Thutmose III who oppressed Israel and was probably the one who died in Exodus 2:23.

Then comes Amenhotep II and Moses returns to Egypt to confront Pharaoh. You can look at the differences in their rule and note that a lot of fighting and building went on during the reign of Thutmose and a lot less during the reign of Amenhotep. Egypt declines in power during Amenhotep. Assuming the Exodus took place in 1445 then 40 years of wandering gets you to 1405 BC for the destruction of Jericho.
http://allanturner.com/pharaoh.html

Since: Sep 10

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#127899
Oct 5, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> What does convincing you have to do with anything?
<quoted text> They are wrong on the dates. Folks in your camp do not take into account 1 Kings 6:1 which took place 966BC. 480 gets you back to around 1446BC. Late daters got it at 1290 which is about a 156 year difference. They figure the Exodus took place in 1445BC. Amenhotep II was Pharaoh and no match for his father Thutmose III who oppressed Israel and was probably the one who died in Exodus 2:23.
Then comes Amenhotep II and Moses returns to Egypt to confront Pharaoh. You can look at the differences in their rule and note that a lot of fighting and building went on during the reign of Thutmose and a lot less during the reign of Amenhotep. Egypt declines in power during Amenhotep. Assuming the Exodus took place in 1445 then 40 years of wandering gets you to 1405 BC for the destruction of Jericho.
http://allanturner.com/pharaoh.html
I am not in any "camp."

But I will tell you, it's clear as day that you are totally obsessed with a myth.

And nothing anybody says will penetrate your wall of denial.

You are certain that you have the truth.

A sad arrogance.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

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#127900
Oct 5, 2012
 

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lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> What does convincing you have to do with anything?
<quoted text> They are wrong on the dates. Folks in your camp do not take into account 1 Kings 6:1 which took place 966BC. 480 gets you back to around 1446BC. Late daters got it at 1290 which is about a 156 year difference. They figure the Exodus took place in 1445BC. Amenhotep II was Pharaoh and no match for his father Thutmose III who oppressed Israel and was probably the one who died in Exodus 2:23.
Then comes Amenhotep II and Moses returns to Egypt to confront Pharaoh. You can look at the differences in their rule and note that a lot of fighting and building went on during the reign of Thutmose and a lot less during the reign of Amenhotep. Egypt declines in power during Amenhotep. Assuming the Exodus took place in 1445 then 40 years of wandering gets you to 1405 BC for the destruction of Jericho.
http://allanturner.com/pharaoh.html
It's quite cute that you cite all these Christian apologists who, like you, will do anything to believe in the veracity of the Bible, despite evidence.

It's nice to contrast your weak, misleading and desperate citations against my, and others', academic ones.

You are really demonstrating how you people lie to yourself and what support mechanisms are involved in your web of deceit. Better make sure you never, ever read honest scholarship, though.

Since: Sep 10

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#127901
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's quite cute that you cite all these Christian apologists who, like you, will do anything to believe in the veracity of the Bible, despite evidence.
It's nice to contrast your weak, misleading and desperate citations against my, and others', academic ones.
You are really demonstrating how you people lie to yourself and what support mechanisms are involved in your web of deceit. Better make sure you never, ever read honest scholarship, though.
You said it better.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

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#127902
Oct 5, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You said it better.
Catcher, I was just in my garden watching a praying mantis eat a bee! The bee's legs were moving and struggling and doing everything in their power to push the mantis away - all to no effect. I was thinking "how strange for residual muscles to resist like that" but then noticed the mantis was eating the bee in reverse: thorax to head! Right up until only the head was left, the bee struggled the entire time! Hard not to feel sorry for the little guy and hard not to think it had an awareness of the universe around it.

But I'm quite happy to have the mantis in my yard - eats grasshoppers normally.

:)

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#127903
Oct 5, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Catcher, I was just in my garden watching a praying mantis eat a bee! The bee's legs were moving and struggling and doing everything in their power to push the mantis away - all to no effect. I was thinking "how strange for residual muscles to resist like that" but then noticed the mantis was eating the bee in reverse: thorax to head! Right up until only the head was left, the bee struggled the entire time! Hard not to feel sorry for the little guy and hard not to think it had an awareness of the universe around it.
But I'm quite happy to have the mantis in my yard - eats grasshoppers normally.
:)
I understand. We're all a part of everything else.

And we don't just observe; we also feel.

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#127904
Oct 5, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
It's quite cute that you cite all these Christian apologists who, like you, will do anything to believe in the veracity of the Bible, despite evidence.
It's nice to contrast your weak, misleading and desperate citations against my, and others', academic ones.
You are really demonstrating how you people lie to yourself and what support mechanisms are involved in your web of deceit. Better make sure you never, ever read honest scholarship, though.
Discredit the source because you do not like what it says. My initial source quotes academics. The only one who lies to self is you and others who convict Scripture as guilty until proven innocent. Again and again. Refuse to accept Scripture as evidence for anything other than myth. Even when 1 Kings refers to the Exodus as actual it is dismissed. All the ancients were wrong and your sources are right. Never mind they were 1000s years closer to the event. They are all sub standard according to critics. I was reviewing the past few pages and noted you initially dismissed EMS post as fiction which was rude so i think you have little to gripe about when you stated he asked a mis leading question as you invited the response given your trite dismissal of his post. Bersides, i don't think you were put off only by the question. There were other things going on. Who knows how long he spent just to bring that post here only to have you and others dismiss it. That is why you ahve a hard time to get academics to come on to sites like this. Why slum it? All you had to do was google and look for hostile opinions. There is more to the Exodus than just dismissive opinions which basically calls all the ancients liars and you elites know the real truth of the matter. No matter how much is thrown at you it is easy to predict your reaction.

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