Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127875 Oct 5, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Tim, why you gotta ignore my questions? Do they make too much sense for ya?
Why are you singling me out?

What questions did you ask me that haven't been answered a thousand times before? I don't want to pick on you - if you think exclaiming to me that I can't prove that god doesn't exist is a compelling argument, then you are an idiot.

If you think black holes don't exist, then you are an idiot. Do you know what a black hole is? Describe one.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127876 Oct 5, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/category/bla...
You will not see a black hole. You may see illustrations of what they think is there based upon gravity attractions, and you guessed it, EM observations using EM devices.
All of those guesses are based upon models they assume are correct based upon other models based on other models, and so on, based upon mathematical assumptions. Derived from observations here.
They are projecting what they want to see.
But everyone knows it's really magnets. There's a giant magnet at the center of the milky way.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127877 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>But everyone knows it's really magnets. There's a giant magnet at the center of the milky way.
http://www.ns.umich.edu/new/releases/20183-a-...

http://www.mpg.de/4677218/magnetic_field_patt...

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127878 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>But everyone knows it's really magnets. There's a giant magnet at the center of the milky way.
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~reid/bfield.html

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127879 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>But everyone knows it's really magnets. There's a giant magnet at the center of the milky way.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/...

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127880 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>But everyone knows it's really magnets. There's a giant magnet at the center of the milky way.
http://www.ehow.com/info_8531709_effects-magn...

Say uncle.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127881 Oct 5, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Woah there, tim. Your gods, the scientists, preach about things like dark matter & black holes and how much they "influence" the universe even though neither one of them have been proven!
And people like you blindly follow...
The evidence for black holes is not only in prediction of GR but physical in nature.
Though most peoples understanding of what constitutes dark matter
is as sketchy as understanding the nature of black holes themselves.

In fact a black hole in itself can be considered dark matter , but more important than what dark matter actually is ...is that it explains the observations. Of course your grasp of the universe doesn't think that man can have this explanatory power. But this is your limitation and you can't project your weakness on the greatest strength of humanity , one which many are sorely lacking.
But never the less a strength of those who have it.

It's like I tried to tell Dave RR , science proves things to the best possible explanation though never absolute, the evidence
is what counts and when there is a convergence of evidence
we know it is right in the best possible of understanding we posses. Right now the evidence is converging that BH's are indeed not only real , but they exist in huge quantity. That's something we did not expect to learn. Dark matter fits the explanation of how gravity moves our galaxy , and we are close to knowing it's reality by the evidence also.

http://phys.org/news/2011-12-nasa-satellite-r...

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127882 Oct 5, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
OK Dave.

Max Planck told me to inform you that it's time to abut your positive end to the negative end of your bottom sheet.

Or you may end up hating yourself in the morning.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127883 Oct 5, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I'm not pndering to your needs, Hiding.
Dark matter & black holes remain scientific guesses & have not been discovered.
But, as an atheist, I'm sure you believe anything you're white coats tell you...
Maybe Nasa can help you with your strange claims:

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/kno...

Black holes do not remain "guesses" - they're observable from their interactions with matter around them.

It's not that I'm an atheist. It's that I'm not religiously indoctrinated and willfully ignorant as you are. I don't relentlessly ignore reality to support a mythology as is your wont.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127884 Oct 5, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
Dave, calm down, I never said that EM wasn't a force in the universe, nor did I say that there are no magnetic fields in the galaxy. I jokingly said that there was a giant magnet, as in a literal fridge magnet, in the center of the galaxy. Look at you getting all excited.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127885 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Dave, calm down, I never said that EM wasn't a force in the universe, nor did I say that there are no magnetic fields in the galaxy. I jokingly said that there was a giant magnet, as in a literal fridge magnet, in the center of the galaxy. Look at you getting all excited.
Dave has had a long day.

“Nothing can stop, This Pony..”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127886 Oct 5, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/category/bla...
You will not see a black hole. You may see illustrations of what they think is there based upon gravity attractions, and you guessed it, EM observations using EM devices.
All of those guesses are based upon models they assume are correct based upon other models based on other models, and so on, based upon mathematical assumptions. Derived from observations here.
They are projecting what they want to see.
BS Dave , BH evidence is based on observed gravitational effects by invisible objects in space . These effects are a prediction of GR and they are pretty much a known effect and property of space/time geometry otherwise known as the gravitational singularity. Until they were observed they were based on models , now that they have been discovered , they present and display other unexplainable phenomena. But we will eventually understand them also.
KJV

United States

#127887 Oct 5, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, what is dark matter then?

Uhm...what are they actually monitoring if not black holes?

Oh wise one, tell us all!
"Physics Experiments at Soudan

Physics experiments at Soudan focus on three major topics: the stability of matter (nucleon decay), the nature and interaction patterns of the cosmic rays and particles called neutrinos, whose properties are a sensitive test of the mechanisms of the fundamental interactions. Scientists working at Soudan have collected data on all three of these questions for several years. These studies will likely continue for at least a few more years. In addition, a large collaboration of scientists has proposed a major new initiative to measure neutrino mass, which would send a beam of neutrinos 730 km through the earth from Fermilab, near Chicago, to the laboratory at Soudan. A large new detector would be added to the current instrumentation at the Soudan Laboratory, if this plan is approved.

Experimenters working on different physics questions share use of the apparatus and often work together, using the same data. Currently, the major instrumentation at Soudan is the Soudan 2 detector is a 1,000 ton device optimized to search for proton decay. It is located in a 690 m deep underground laboratory on the 27th level of the Soudan Mine. A 60 square meter energy detector, located on the earth's surface near the entrance to the Soudan Mine, and a nearby array of sensitive light detectors, which measure atmospheric light generated by cosmic rays, work with the underground detector. In addition, the proposed neutrino mass experiment would use a new detector called MINOS, which would be located in an new underground room adjacent to the existing laboratory."
KJV

United States

#127888 Oct 5, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, what is dark matter then?

Uhm...what are they actually monitoring if not black holes?

Oh wise one, tell us all!
"The Need for an Underground Facility

The Soudan Laboratory is one of a handful of deep underground physics laboratories located at sites around the world. The major reason for the deep underground location is to shield very sensitive energy detectors from cosmic rays, naturally raining down on the earth from outer space. These cosmic ray particles deposit tiny flashes of energy in all matter which they traverse. A large number of such flashes can easily overwhelm sensitive experiments which are done in deep underground labs, masking the expected effects.
In an underground facility, the number of cosmic ray particles is considerably reduced by absorption in the rock above. At the Soudan lab, the number of cosmic ray particles is cut by a factor of 100,000 from the number at the surface. As a result, the current Soudan 2 detector needs to cope with only a few million interruptions per year due to cosmic rays rather than the trillions of cosmic rays per year that would pass through a similar detector on the earth's surface.

Underground physics labs similar to the one at Soudan but with different experiments are located in mines in South Dakota, Ontario and Japan. There are also deep underground physics labs in Russia, France and Italy, which are located underneath mountains and accessed by long, horizontal tunnels.

Physics Underground

Most underground physics experiments study the nature of the fundamental forces between the tiniest bits of matter. There are four such forces or interactions. Scientists believe that all of them are likely related. The weakest of these interactions is gravity, the force which is familiar to us as both the reason why objects fall towards the earth's surface and why the earth and the other planets move in orbits around the sun. A second familiar force is electromagnetism, which is responsible for electromagnets and magnetic compasses and all forms of electricity. The strongest of the four forces is the strong or nuclear force which binds the nuclei of atoms together. The last force, known as the weak interaction, is important for the thermonuclear or burning reactions which power our Sun and for some very slow, radioactive decays.

Understanding these forces is important for several reasons. Two of these forces, electromagnetism and the strong force, are the basis for much of the 20th Century technology that enormously affects our daily lives. For example, electromagnetic waves form the basis for television and other modes of communications. Electromagnetism also plays a key role in determining the behavior of semiconductors, which implement all kinds of electronics. The strong or nuclear force determines the technology for release of nuclear energy, either by fission or by thermonuclear fusion. Past experience suggests that tomorrow's technologies will likely be built on the base of today's science. Advances will be based, among other things, on discoveries about the fundamental interactions.

A second reason is that these forces are key to answering the important questions which people have asked for millenia. How was the universe formed? What will eventually happen to it? Is there a beginning or an end to either space or time? The fundamental forces are also important to answering recent questions such as: Will the universe expand forever? Does matter live forever? Is there dark matter? The knowledge related to all of these questions is part of our culture. One role of science is to contribute to our humanity by advancing our worldwide culture."

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127889 Oct 5, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave has had a long day.
It would seem so.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127890 Oct 5, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks!
You're welcome and thank you for your writing :)

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127891 Oct 5, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK Dave.
Max Planck told me to inform you that it's time to abut your positive end to the negative end of your bottom sheet.
Or you may end up hating yourself in the morning.
One last sermon before I go to bed.

About magnetic energy.

I think it is something like only 10% of the total magnetic strength of a magnet escapes the surface. The rest flows through the material of the magnet.

The assumed dynamo for the earth;s field is down near the outer core. Somewhere around 1000 miles. The field it generates goes out far enough so that when the solar wind blows the magneto tail, it sometimes slaps the moon, inducing a heavy static charge on its surface. It also captures high speed charged particles from space.

This is not a weak force.

They take the reading from the surface of the earth, which they say is very small. Of course it would be, because the crust is a secondary magnet. You are reading it. The flux originates way below it and keeps going, magnetizing material in the crust, in addition to tidal forces and cosmic magnetic fields inducing magnetic fields in that same crust. This is that rock thing experiment no one wants to try.

The heliosphere and the galactic magnetic field are two of those cosmic fields. Then you have those nice iron cores of the earth. So you have the mix of magnetic fields interacting on the surface. Wrapping and twisting in mostly a regular pattern. You are part of that pattern. Caught in it, and affecting it. Be advised that thought is EM.

It gets more complicated, but I am going to bed.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127892 Oct 5, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, I have an archeology book written by a couple of Israeli scholars who acknowledge that the Exodus is a fairy tale.
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your viewpoint.
Poly, what is this gas hot:

http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2012/halo/

And, does physics work differently at those temperatures?

(and why wasn't that predicted - it seems obvious if the early universe was full of hot plasma and, as it cooled, some of that turned into stars. You'd get left over plasma + gas being ejected from stars as a background)

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127893 Oct 5, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> BS Dave , BH evidence is based on observed gravitational effects by invisible objects in space . These effects are a prediction of GR and they are pretty much a known effect and property of space/time geometry otherwise known as the gravitational singularity. Until they were observed they were based on models , now that they have been discovered , they present and display other unexplainable phenomena. But we will eventually understand them also.
Have faith, Aura, have faith.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127894 Oct 5, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Physics Experiments at Soudan
Physics experiments at Soudan focus on three major topics: the stability of matter (nucleon decay), the nature and interaction patterns of the cosmic rays and particles called neutrinos, whose properties are a sensitive test of the mechanisms of the fundamental interactions. Scientists working at Soudan have collected data on all three of these questions for several years. These studies will likely continue for at least a few more years. In addition, a large collaboration of scientists has proposed a major new initiative to measure neutrino mass, which would send a beam of neutrinos 730 km through the earth from Fermilab, near Chicago, to the laboratory at Soudan. A large new detector would be added to the current instrumentation at the Soudan Laboratory, if this plan is approved.
Experimenters working on different physics questions share use of the apparatus and often work together, using the same data. Currently, the major instrumentation at Soudan is the Soudan 2 detector is a 1,000 ton device optimized to search for proton decay. It is located in a 690 m deep underground laboratory on the 27th level of the Soudan Mine. A 60 square meter energy detector, located on the earth's surface near the entrance to the Soudan Mine, and a nearby array of sensitive light detectors, which measure atmospheric light generated by cosmic rays, work with the underground detector. In addition, the proposed neutrino mass experiment would use a new detector called MINOS, which would be located in an new underground room adjacent to the existing laboratory."
Questions:

1. what does this brochure have to do with my questions?
2. why didn't you just paste the link: http://www.hep.umn.edu/soudan/brochure.html

3. why are you writing this to me?

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