Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 20 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127939 Oct 6, 2012
Col. Klink. All your sources are fraudulent apologists.

Guess what, baby?

You know nothing!
Col Klink wrote:
Middle East sources confirm the Bible time after time.
Babylon and the Bible
by Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD
Two hundred years ago, scholars doubted whether Babylon ever existed. The only record could be found in the Bible. Critics used the story of Babylon, and what they called its "non-historic kings," to discount Scripture. However, Babylon was discovered and excavated in 1898.
We know today that Babylon was one of the first cities in the world, and founded by Nimrod, great-grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:9-10). Archaeologists have found his name on many inscriptions and tablets, while a massive head of Nimrod has been excavated near Calah on the Tigris River.
http://amazingdiscoveries.org/S-deception_arc...
Sumeria is located in the Land of Kish (Kush or Cush) founded by son of Noah's son Ham.
"Kish was occupied beginning in the Jemdet Nasr period (3100 BC), gaining prominence as one of the pre-eminent powers in the region during the early dynastic period.
The Sumerian king list states that it was the first city to have kings following the deluge, beginning with Jushur."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kish_%28Sumer%29
"Cush, son of Ham. The Empire of Kush to the south of Egypt is known from at least 1970 BC, but this name has also been associated by some with the Kassites who inhabited the Zagros area of Mesopotamia, the Sumerian city of Kish in the Land of Kish."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Noah#Ham...
"The Sumerian Kish, the first city established in Mesopotamia after the Flood, took its name from the man known in the Bible as Cush. The first kingdom established after the Flood was Kish, and the name "Kish" appears often on clay tablets. The early post-Flood Sumerian king lists say that "kingship descended from heaven to Kish" after the Flood."
continues:
http://davelivingston.com/nimrod.htm
and
http://www.noahs-ark.tv/noahs-ark-flood-creat...

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127940 Oct 6, 2012
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
"The association of the Ipuwer Papyrus with the Exodus as describing the same event is generally rejected by Egyptologists."
Stiebing, William H.(1989). Out of the Desert: Archaeology and the Exodus/Conquest Narratives. Prometheus. p. 121.
Nicely said.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#127941 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>Refuse to accept Scripture as evidence for anything other than myth.
well it is a myth

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127942 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
One question: what is "oral anal sex"??
Sex with a SpongeBob NoPants. Sponges mouths and ani are the same pore.

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

#127943 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You seem to believe the universe created itself which is logical absurdity.
Please show the relative support of the above statement you made.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127944 Oct 6, 2012
River Tam wrote:
A kid walked by his mother's bedroom and saw her on the bed masturbating, saying, "Oh god, I need a man. Oh god, I need a man".

Two nights later, he walked by his mom's room and a naked man walked out, excused himself, went to the bathroom, urinated and walked back into his mom's room and closed the door. The boy immediately went back to his room, started masturbating furiously saying, "Oh god, I need a bicycle. Oh god, I need a bicycle."
Sometimes, it takes a little sophistication to understand what you are seeing:

An Amish boy and his father were visiting a mall. They were amazed by almost everything they saw, but especially by two shiny silver walls that could move apart and back together again.

The boy asked his father, "What is this father?" The father, having never seen an elevator, responded, "Son, I have never seen anything like this in my life. I don't know what it is!"

While the boy and his father were watching wide-eyed, an old lady in a wheel chair rolled up to the moving walls and pressed a button. The walls opened and the lady rolled between them into a small room. The walls closed and the boy and his father watched small circles of light with numbers above the wall light up. They continued to watch the circles light up in the reverse direction. The walls opened up again and a beautiful 24-year-old woman stepped out.

The man said to his son, "Go get your mother!"

========== I opened my favorite jokes file for that. Here's a few more:

(30) The captain of a commercial jet made an announcement over the cabin's PA system informing the passengers that the Grand Canyon was now visible out of the left side of the airplane.

He set his hand set down, not realizing that the voice activation button was still depressed, and that he was still broadcasting to the cabin. He turned to his copilot, and jokingly commented that he could sure use a cup of coffee and a blow job about then. Everybody in the cabin heard him.

In horror, the stewardess began running toward the cockpit to apprise the captain of the situation. As she runs past him, a passenger on the aisle shouts, "Don't forget the coffee!"

(33) A woman has the images of her favorite sex symbols - Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise - tattooed to the insides of her thighs. When the artist is finished, the woman looks down and expresses her dismay at the poor job that he has done.

The artist points out that she is in no position to judge his work, since she is seeing it upside down. So they agree to let a third party – the first one to walk by the tattoo shop - be the final arbiter.

That just happens to be a street drunk, who is stumbling by at that moment. They beckon the drunk enter, and to please try to identify the celebrities between the woman’s legs. He agrees.

After a few seconds of staring, reeling, and squinting the drunk announces,“I can't say who the two on the ends are, but the one in the middle is the spittin’ image of Willie Nelson.”

(33) My neighbor discovered that her pet schnauzer could hardly hear, so she took it to the veterinarian. The poor dog’s ear hairs were all tangled and matted, so the vet cleaned them both out, and the dog could hear fine. He told the lady that if she wanted to keep this from reoccurring she should go to the store and get some Nair, a hair remover, and rub in its ears once a month.

The lady goes to the drug store as instructed to get some Nair for her dog. At the register, the druggist tells her, "If you're going to use this under your arms, don't use deodorant for a few days."

The lady says, "I'm not using it under my arms."

The druggist says, "Well then, if you're going to be using it on your legs, I recommend that you not wear hose for a few days."

The lady says, "I'm not using it on my legs either. If you must know, I'm using it on my schnauzer."

The druggist then says, "In that case, lady, you should probably stay off your bicycle for a few days.”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127945 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
You're being ... ignorant here. New York, New Amsterdam didn't always exist. You know this, right? Once, a long time ago, there was no city where New York now stands.
The same thing is true of Jericho (and other cities mentioned in the Bible). Only, unlike you, our early Bible editors and writers weren't aware of that - they literally were ignorant. They assumed, incorrectly, that the cities they were aware of always existed.
Do you know how we know that? Cities are built upon previous dwellings, upon previous dwellings, upon previous dwellings and eventually upon the earth.
It was a very simple matter for archaeologists to just keep digging and dating Jericho. Eventually they, too, found the beginnings of the city - and guess what? They dated it.
I don't know how they determined the location from the Bible or how they dated the city. Only a handful of alleged experts do. They could have made any number of errors. We do not know how they operate. Why should we take their claims on faith? On the other hand you have Scripture. The established date for the building of the temple of Solomon is 966BC. 480 years back from that date is 1446 BC. They figure the the Exodus happened 1445BC. Add 40 or so years to that and you are around 1405BC. Everybody can understand that compared to the ''experts'' who dig up dirt and somehow determine dates which do not jibe with biblical history.
No city existed where Jericho did when the Bible claims it was there.
According to you and a sub group of experts. In your case why should i believe you or anybody when i know you have noting but contempt for my beliefs along with Judiac beliefs in regards to the Exodus in the first place? You are the one who assumes it is all myth. And let me tell you something, it is not only Christianity, it is also Judaism and Jewish history you demonstrate contempt for. Reducing it all to invented myth to keep everybody together. Your explanation is condescending. You use the big stick of Science to browbeat opposition. Anyone, including the experts who does not buy the majority report are more or less fools or are backpeddling. The method alone is elitest and creates suspicion.
Let's pretend you can think critically with regards to your own religion. I know you cannot, but let's pretend you can. You ask "why wasn't there a city when the Bible says there was, Hiding?" And I respond, "well, we both know that 3 different writers wrote Exodus.
Condescending.
Later, one editor wove the stories together and tried to make the work. He didn't know that Jericho did not always stand where it was and so anachronistically (do you know what this word means???) added it."
Now you mock Jewish history Judaism and Christianity. They are making things up! That is just base assumption which basicially assumes the ancients did not really know what they were doing.
Anachronistic means "putting items out of time or before their time." It's like writing a novel where the main character is listening to ABBA in 1940. That would be incorrect; an anachronistic error. Your Bible editors were anachronistic because they didn't have access to information the way we do. They just added whatever cities and details that they knew at the time - that's how Bible scholars can tell that it was edited (and edited poorly), out of time.
You're welcome.
Who is we? A subgroup of alleged ''experts'' who operates on principals nobody understands to establish dates and places. All history for thousands of years is wrong and they are right. Is that it? Thanks but no thanks.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127946 Oct 6, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Funny, poly. I have a book that says the Exodus IS real...
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your "evidence".
Do you have any archaeological evidence supporting the Exodus? No. it is a myth: a nationalistic propaganda piece.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127947 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I don't know how they determined the location from the Bible or how they dated the city. Only a handful of alleged experts do. They could have made any number of errors. We do not know how they operate. Why should we take their claims on faith? On the other hand you have Scripture. The established date for the building of the temple of Solomon is 966BC. 480 years back from that date is 1446 BC. They figure the the Exodus happened 1445BC. Add 40 or so years to that and you are around 1405BC. Everybody can understand that compared to the ''experts'' who dig up dirt and somehow determine dates which do not jibe with biblical history.
<quoted text> According to you and a sub group of experts. In your case why should i believe you or anybody when i know you have noting but contempt for my beliefs along with Judiac beliefs in regards to the Exodus in the first place? You are the one who assumes it is all myth. And let me tell you something, it is not only Christianity, it is also Judaism and Jewish history you demonstrate contempt for. Reducing it all to invented myth to keep everybody together. Your explanation is condescending. You use the big stick of Science to browbeat opposition. Anyone, including the experts who does not buy the majority report are more or less fools or are backpeddling. The method alone is elitest and creates suspicion.
<quoted text> Condescending. <quoted text> Now you mock Jewish history Judaism and Christianity. They are
making things up! That is just base assumption which basicially assumes the ancients did not really know what they were doing.
<quoted text> Who is we? A subgroup of alleged ''experts'' who operates on principals nobody understands to establish dates and places. All history for thousands of years is wrong and they are right. Is that it? Thanks but no thanks.
So go pray already.

I'm off to the gym.

I don't want to browbeat the opposition.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127948 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You could convince me Exodus happened, especially if we found:
- Egyptian records discussing the capturing of Israel and the enslaving of its people
- Egyptian records discussing the mass "exodus" of Israelites (half a million people just leave their society and they don't notice???)
- Egyptian records bewailing the fact that every single firstborn just died (quite an odd medical mystery, wouldn't you say?)
- if the Bible story on Exodus was written by one person instead of three plus a "redactor" who tried to unify the various accounts and, through his anachronistic additions, made it look even worse
- if we didn't have evidence that the Jews were already in the region in the time that Exodus purports to have happened
it doesn't even have to be Egyptian records. It could be, for example, records from the Midianites or the Babylonians.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127949 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
"Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make."
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipu ...
<quoted text>
If you're a believer, you're free to ignore language differences, cultural meaning and historical times.
<quoted text>
That drinking from the river doesn't quench thirst - i.e., there was no respite from the drought and hunger. That's apparently what it meant in Ancient Egyptian. It was figurative.
Figurative and you know that how?
<quoted text>
Uh...the date is known - why do you need to lie?
For the Temple of Solomon?
Where did it say "all the Jewish slaves are leaving"? You think they'd notice a glaring detail such as that.
They revolted. They left. Things do not survive history.
Or "all our firstborn children are dead. That sucks."
Inference. Neither Amenhotep ii or Thutmose 1V were firstborn sons.
Or "wow. Our army just got wiped out when it thought, without much discussion, to chase the Israelites through an ocean that seemed to just part for them. In hindsight, that was a bad idea."
No, Lightbeam, you're the one reaching here - doing anything at all to support your religion. But that's exactly what we expect - no critical thinking, no self-reflexive thinking (and yes, I mean "reflexive" and not reflective. Look it up).
That is what the account says and is given the benefit of the doubt. Again, all the ancients regarded it as valid history. You, on the other hand say it is all myth based on your atheism. To question your philosophy of science is to somehow question Science itself. To be guilty of anti-science. When it is your atheistic assumptions which is in question and subsequently your interpretation of history. That is not exactly the same as being anti-science.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127950 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
The same thing is true of Jericho (and other cities mentioned in the Bible). Only, unlike you, our early Bible editors and writers weren't aware of that - they literally were ignorant. They assumed, incorrectly, that the cities they were aware of always existed.
The ancients assumed the cities always existed. They were ''literally ignorant''? Here's another little gem from Hiding. Do you base your conclusions on scientific method or once again are you talking out of a place other than your mouth? Pulling historical rabbits out of fictional hats?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#127951 Oct 6, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a look at what I see in Dave's methodology .
Disregard science , vilify atheists , exonerate gravity and elevate magnetism.
In a nutshell.

Very apt description.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127952 Oct 6, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
The more inane Dave's comment, the more fundamental your answer needs to be, which is what most of us need to read.
Polymath's posts are aimed at the first year science student. He tells you that magnet aligned oppositely have less pull on a third object than magnets aligned alike. That's pretty elementary. But it needed to be said to Dave. Again and again, and to no benefit to him. But if you read the posts, you learn.
It's the same with your material. It varies from basic to intermediate. That's good.
That's flux density.

Each magnetic flow or electrical flow starts and returns to the same piece of matter. It is a polarity relative only to that chunk. Because it is the internal equilibrium of the atomic structure of that chunk was disturbed and seeks equilibrium through the negatively charged outer skin, I went into more detail on this in the past.

Because this occurs on a atomic level, this charge has a limited path to follow, and each charge path is individual on this magnetic flow basis. To get strength, they have to be in parallel. These are tiny streams kept isolated by them repelling each other, but the real strength is the difference between the nucleus and electron shell caused by the disturbance. It's a pump. Being caught in the flow is a lot stronger than the effects of being next to it. When this flow encounters another object, it works on the atomic level because of these individual paths. Matter can not create a monolithic field of this charge movement because of that. Hence the need for parallel flows to increase relative strength. This magnetic force is more direct than an electrical flow. A magnetic flow passes through everything. If something can't get out of the way fast enough it gets bumped by it.

The power in a magnetic flow is derived directly from forces within the atom, as are the paths.

Electrical flows combined differently. Those are bumped electrons, by a magnetic field passing fast enough, or changes similar on the chemical level. This alters the nuclei and electron relationship, creating that charge imbalance that produces that magnetism. However, this is closed loops, resulting in potential differences. This is why when you add batteries or magneto generated voltage in series you get an increase in potential difference between the terminal poles. This difference adds more strain, so to speak. The positive of one is sucking off some of the flow of the next battery via the negative, which then combines the two, or more, adding voltage.

Magnetism is like batteries in parallel. You have more mass to flow, but you are limited by the inherent charge difference within atoms. This is the same thing you have with batteries. In parallel the voltage stays the same, but you can draw more magnetism. But adding batteries in series adds those charge differences as you add those loops. I'm not going into the details of that now.

But the amazing and astounding thingy is under enough stress, this charge movement wraps this magnetism up in loops and kicks them out as light. This is stress caused by things like motion fighting gravity and heat. Some of that excess heat is transferred into those loops as energy. This energy can then transverse the universe and be transfered to far distant pieces of matter, thus effecting roughly the same process that transformed it. Stand in the sun for a while, or put a thermocouple in it and read it to understand. That heat in excess of the ambient temp is coming from EM bombardment. Heat doesn't transfer via conduction across a vacuum like space.

So the reach of EM, and these loops are carrying energy mucho,muco stronger than gravity, and can have much grater effect depending on how it is channeled on the receiving end.

Your light "particle" is carrying the same energy it left with. The difference in "strength" from a distant source is due to the density of the paths lessening.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127953 Oct 6, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Sex with a SpongeBob NoPants. Sponges mouths and ani are the same pore.
Gatekeeper will want to know this information.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#127954 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
"Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make."
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipu ...
<quoted text>
If you're a believer, you're free to ignore language differences, cultural meaning and historical times.
<quoted text>
That drinking from the river doesn't quench thirst - i.e., there was no respite from the drought and hunger. That's apparently what it meant in Ancient Egyptian. It was figurative.
<quoted text>
Uh...the date is known - why do you need to lie?
Where did it say "all the Jewish slaves are leaving"? You think they'd notice a glaring detail such as that.
Or "all our firstborn children are dead. That sucks."
Or "wow. Our army just got wiped out when it thought, without much discussion, to chase the Israelites through an ocean that seemed to just part for them. In hindsight, that was a bad idea."
No, Lightbeam, you're the one reaching here - doing anything at all to support your religion. But that's exactly what we expect - no critical thinking, no self-reflexive thinking (and yes, I mean "reflexive" and not reflective. Look it up).
I wonder if buck is reading.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127955 Oct 6, 2012
What we call space is part of the mechanics of the universe.

Just a charge field occupying a portion of it changes the inherent value of it. Creates a density differential. This is the basis of gravity. This is something you find within atoms, so this is what gives the illusion of gravity being some mysterious inside out phenomenon, and the Higgs' boson theory.

It gets pumped by motion.

Your particle wave duality is nothing but this motion wrapped into a packet, particles, moving through space, creating a wave.

You can't move a "particle" without moving the space with it. Space gets displaced. There is your dark energy. Lot more space out there than matter.

You will find some theories of the Big Bang where the universe was monolithic, and the Big Bang was a singularity that expanded in it, creating our local version of space, and matter from that expanding bubble of that monolithic universe substance. So space is very much part of the circuitry. You can't have motion without it.

But then you have what was this monolithic universe our bubble was created in. On paper and mathwise, it is just a starting point, but in actuality, it had to be something.

But then this whole universe may be more illusory than you can imagine right now.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127956 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
I don't know how they determined the location from the Bible or how they dated the city. Only a handful of alleged experts do.
Don't be silly. Anyone who has taken one class in archaeology or use an arky picture book knows how they did it.

In brief, it goes like this: dig with a toothbrush. Do not disturb anything, but try to remove the dirt. Keep exacting, exacting, exacting measurements of the depth. Keep exacting, exacting, exacting measurements of the area you are digging. Measure all of these using survey techniques. Mark all finds. Seal all finds until you can test their age.

Here, this is a simple description of arky methods, starting at part three for you. Please look at the pictures:

http://bama.ua.edu/~alaarch/excavationsteps/e...
They could have made any number of errors. We do not know how they operate.
Yes, we do.

1. they are trained professionals. You don't just fly out to Israel and say "hey, I'd like to dig up Jericho. Yeah. Really. Thanks." They spend their undergraduate doing digs. Their graduate degree doing digs. Their summers doing digs. Then they get paid to do digs.

2. they write down their research methodologies in two places: on their grant applications and in their peer reviewed, published data.

Just because you are utterly ignorant about all things archaeology doesn't mean that archaeologists don't know what they're doing.
Why should we take their claims on faith?
Don't! Go read them. Go read replications of study. Read their backgrounds - are they biased? Do they have religious affiliation? Who is supporting their research? What have they done before?

Replicate the study!(if you can and you're an arky, too)
On the other hand you have Scripture.
hahahahahahahaha!!! That's great. Thanks :)
The established date for the building of the temple of Solomon is 966BC. 480 years back from that date is 1446 BC. They figure the the Exodus happened 1445BC. Add 40 or so years to that and you are around 1405BC. Everybody can understand that compared to the ''experts'' who dig up dirt and somehow determine dates which do not jibe with biblical history.
Yeah, so the date is totally off in the Bible because the editor lied, adding sites that didn't exist then so that his people would identify with the Holy text. No surprise here - I mean, look how you believe him.
According to you and a sub group of experts. In your case why should i believe you or anybody when i know you have noting but contempt for my beliefs along with Judiac beliefs in regards to the Exodus in the first place?
B/c I'm honest, which is more than can be said of your religion. You creationists deny science and history and produce page after page of outright fraud. I suppose there's something to be said for that.

But you don't have to believe me. The only thing that should matter to you is that you have developed spiritual fulfillment in your religion.

Are you happy? Are you fulfilled spiritually, LB?

I mean, you are in touch with a perfect being, aren't you? The only perfectly moral being in the universe, right? If I had direct communication with the Creator of the universe, the "one, true god," the only perfect moral being, I'd be pretty happy. In fact, I'd devote my life to bettering myself to show that It did well in Creating me, that the Perfect Being would be proud.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#127957 Oct 6, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
It’s been a lively discussion and mannerly which is very much appreciated. I really enjoy talking to you and others. I thank you for your participation in the discussion.
.. my guess? You will continue to reject the archaeological evidence regarding the Exodus. You have to, correct ??..

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127958 Oct 6, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
it doesn't even have to be Egyptian records. It could be, for example, records from the Midianites or the Babylonians.
I choose Egyptian because if they really had half a million Jewish slaves working on the pyramids up and leave right after all their first born children died, they'd write that down.

You know...they wrote the water levels of the Nile down, the conquests of their Pharaohs (which doesn't include attacking Israel when the OT claims), even how to build pyramids and how to embalm dead people - and when they had famines! You'd think they'd write "oh, yeah, this year we like lost all our first borns. It was like terrible, dude. Lots of women had a wailing and a gnashing of teeth. Whoa. We're pretty sure it was the all-loving God of Israel who did it, but tests are inconclusive at this time."

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