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Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

# Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258484 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 08

#127952 Oct 6, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
The more inane Dave's comment, the more fundamental your answer needs to be, which is what most of us need to read.
Polymath's posts are aimed at the first year science student. He tells you that magnet aligned oppositely have less pull on a third object than magnets aligned alike. That's pretty elementary. But it needed to be said to Dave. Again and again, and to no benefit to him. But if you read the posts, you learn.
It's the same with your material. It varies from basic to intermediate. That's good.
That's flux density.

Each magnetic flow or electrical flow starts and returns to the same piece of matter. It is a polarity relative only to that chunk. Because it is the internal equilibrium of the atomic structure of that chunk was disturbed and seeks equilibrium through the negatively charged outer skin, I went into more detail on this in the past.

Because this occurs on a atomic level, this charge has a limited path to follow, and each charge path is individual on this magnetic flow basis. To get strength, they have to be in parallel. These are tiny streams kept isolated by them repelling each other, but the real strength is the difference between the nucleus and electron shell caused by the disturbance. It's a pump. Being caught in the flow is a lot stronger than the effects of being next to it. When this flow encounters another object, it works on the atomic level because of these individual paths. Matter can not create a monolithic field of this charge movement because of that. Hence the need for parallel flows to increase relative strength. This magnetic force is more direct than an electrical flow. A magnetic flow passes through everything. If something can't get out of the way fast enough it gets bumped by it.

The power in a magnetic flow is derived directly from forces within the atom, as are the paths.

Electrical flows combined differently. Those are bumped electrons, by a magnetic field passing fast enough, or changes similar on the chemical level. This alters the nuclei and electron relationship, creating that charge imbalance that produces that magnetism. However, this is closed loops, resulting in potential differences. This is why when you add batteries or magneto generated voltage in series you get an increase in potential difference between the terminal poles. This difference adds more strain, so to speak. The positive of one is sucking off some of the flow of the next battery via the negative, which then combines the two, or more, adding voltage.

Magnetism is like batteries in parallel. You have more mass to flow, but you are limited by the inherent charge difference within atoms. This is the same thing you have with batteries. In parallel the voltage stays the same, but you can draw more magnetism. But adding batteries in series adds those charge differences as you add those loops. I'm not going into the details of that now.

But the amazing and astounding thingy is under enough stress, this charge movement wraps this magnetism up in loops and kicks them out as light. This is stress caused by things like motion fighting gravity and heat. Some of that excess heat is transferred into those loops as energy. This energy can then transverse the universe and be transfered to far distant pieces of matter, thus effecting roughly the same process that transformed it. Stand in the sun for a while, or put a thermocouple in it and read it to understand. That heat in excess of the ambient temp is coming from EM bombardment. Heat doesn't transfer via conduction across a vacuum like space.

So the reach of EM, and these loops are carrying energy mucho,muco stronger than gravity, and can have much grater effect depending on how it is channeled on the receiving end.

Your light "particle" is carrying the same energy it left with. The difference in "strength" from a distant source is due to the density of the paths lessening.

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Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127953 Oct 6, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Sex with a SpongeBob NoPants. Sponges mouths and ani are the same pore.
Gatekeeper will want to know this information.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#127954 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
"Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make."
<quoted text>
If you're a believer, you're free to ignore language differences, cultural meaning and historical times.
<quoted text>
That drinking from the river doesn't quench thirst - i.e., there was no respite from the drought and hunger. That's apparently what it meant in Ancient Egyptian. It was figurative.
<quoted text>
Uh...the date is known - why do you need to lie?
Where did it say "all the Jewish slaves are leaving"? You think they'd notice a glaring detail such as that.
Or "all our firstborn children are dead. That sucks."
Or "wow. Our army just got wiped out when it thought, without much discussion, to chase the Israelites through an ocean that seemed to just part for them. In hindsight, that was a bad idea."
No, Lightbeam, you're the one reaching here - doing anything at all to support your religion. But that's exactly what we expect - no critical thinking, no self-reflexive thinking (and yes, I mean "reflexive" and not reflective. Look it up).
I wonder if buck is reading.

Since: Sep 08

#127955 Oct 6, 2012
What we call space is part of the mechanics of the universe.

Just a charge field occupying a portion of it changes the inherent value of it. Creates a density differential. This is the basis of gravity. This is something you find within atoms, so this is what gives the illusion of gravity being some mysterious inside out phenomenon, and the Higgs' boson theory.

It gets pumped by motion.

Your particle wave duality is nothing but this motion wrapped into a packet, particles, moving through space, creating a wave.

You can't move a "particle" without moving the space with it. Space gets displaced. There is your dark energy. Lot more space out there than matter.

You will find some theories of the Big Bang where the universe was monolithic, and the Big Bang was a singularity that expanded in it, creating our local version of space, and matter from that expanding bubble of that monolithic universe substance. So space is very much part of the circuitry. You can't have motion without it.

But then you have what was this monolithic universe our bubble was created in. On paper and mathwise, it is just a starting point, but in actuality, it had to be something.

But then this whole universe may be more illusory than you can imagine right now.

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Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127956 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
I don't know how they determined the location from the Bible or how they dated the city. Only a handful of alleged experts do.
Don't be silly. Anyone who has taken one class in archaeology or use an arky picture book knows how they did it.

In brief, it goes like this: dig with a toothbrush. Do not disturb anything, but try to remove the dirt. Keep exacting, exacting, exacting measurements of the depth. Keep exacting, exacting, exacting measurements of the area you are digging. Measure all of these using survey techniques. Mark all finds. Seal all finds until you can test their age.

Here, this is a simple description of arky methods, starting at part three for you. Please look at the pictures:

http://bama.ua.edu/~alaarch/excavationsteps/e...
They could have made any number of errors. We do not know how they operate.
Yes, we do.

1. they are trained professionals. You don't just fly out to Israel and say "hey, I'd like to dig up Jericho. Yeah. Really. Thanks." They spend their undergraduate doing digs. Their graduate degree doing digs. Their summers doing digs. Then they get paid to do digs.

2. they write down their research methodologies in two places: on their grant applications and in their peer reviewed, published data.

Just because you are utterly ignorant about all things archaeology doesn't mean that archaeologists don't know what they're doing.
Why should we take their claims on faith?
Don't! Go read them. Go read replications of study. Read their backgrounds - are they biased? Do they have religious affiliation? Who is supporting their research? What have they done before?

Replicate the study!(if you can and you're an arky, too)
On the other hand you have Scripture.
hahahahahahahaha!!! That's great. Thanks :)
The established date for the building of the temple of Solomon is 966BC. 480 years back from that date is 1446 BC. They figure the the Exodus happened 1445BC. Add 40 or so years to that and you are around 1405BC. Everybody can understand that compared to the ''experts'' who dig up dirt and somehow determine dates which do not jibe with biblical history.
Yeah, so the date is totally off in the Bible because the editor lied, adding sites that didn't exist then so that his people would identify with the Holy text. No surprise here - I mean, look how you believe him.
According to you and a sub group of experts. In your case why should i believe you or anybody when i know you have noting but contempt for my beliefs along with Judiac beliefs in regards to the Exodus in the first place?
B/c I'm honest, which is more than can be said of your religion. You creationists deny science and history and produce page after page of outright fraud. I suppose there's something to be said for that.

But you don't have to believe me. The only thing that should matter to you is that you have developed spiritual fulfillment in your religion.

Are you happy? Are you fulfilled spiritually, LB?

I mean, you are in touch with a perfect being, aren't you? The only perfectly moral being in the universe, right? If I had direct communication with the Creator of the universe, the "one, true god," the only perfect moral being, I'd be pretty happy. In fact, I'd devote my life to bettering myself to show that It did well in Creating me, that the Perfect Being would be proud.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#127957 Oct 6, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
ItÂ’s been a lively discussion and mannerly which is very much appreciated. I really enjoy talking to you and others. I thank you for your participation in the discussion.
.. my guess? You will continue to reject the archaeological evidence regarding the Exodus. You have to, correct ??..

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Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127958 Oct 6, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
it doesn't even have to be Egyptian records. It could be, for example, records from the Midianites or the Babylonians.
I choose Egyptian because if they really had half a million Jewish slaves working on the pyramids up and leave right after all their first born children died, they'd write that down.

You know...they wrote the water levels of the Nile down, the conquests of their Pharaohs (which doesn't include attacking Israel when the OT claims), even how to build pyramids and how to embalm dead people - and when they had famines! You'd think they'd write "oh, yeah, this year we like lost all our first borns. It was like terrible, dude. Lots of women had a wailing and a gnashing of teeth. Whoa. We're pretty sure it was the all-loving God of Israel who did it, but tests are inconclusive at this time."
Anon
#127959 Oct 6, 2012
Where is Bob of Quantum Faith? Talk about fallin' off the map...

Since: Sep 08

#127960 Oct 6, 2012
When you stress a clump of matter to create a magnetic field about it, you are getting a shadow of its internal structure. Not necessarily a carbon copy, but an effect of its processing the flow according to its matrix of matter assembled. Like i mentioned, you get these streams sent out that try to get back to fill the void, and they encounter other clumps, with and without magnetic fields along the way, affecting them. But those streams return, and they will wiggle and squirm and whatever they have to do to get back. But they do have a hard time crossing other magnetic streams. Relative strength comes into play there. Can lead to forming new substances.

If you are in the middle of a stronger flux flow, you have those streams passing through you, bringing those shadows to your EM matrix, interacting with it, and being modified by yours and carrying it down the line, and back to the source, which is affected by all of those, but also filters it back to the original if the stress that generated it is strong enough.

This is physical fact, not conjecture.

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Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#127961 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
What we call space is part of the mechanics of the universe.
Just a charge field occupying a portion of it changes the inherent value of it. Creates a density differential. This is the basis of gravity. This is something you find within atoms, so this is what gives the illusion of gravity being some mysterious inside out phenomenon, and the Higgs' boson theory.
It gets pumped by motion.
Your particle wave duality is nothing but this motion wrapped into a packet, particles, moving through space, creating a wave.
You can't move a "particle" without moving the space with it. Space gets displaced. There is your dark energy. Lot more space out there than matter.
You will find some theories of the Big Bang where the universe was monolithic, and the Big Bang was a singularity that expanded in it, creating our local version of space, and matter from that expanding bubble of that monolithic universe substance. So space is very much part of the circuitry. You can't have motion without it.
But then you have what was this monolithic universe our bubble was created in. On paper and mathwise, it is just a starting point, but in actuality, it had to be something.
But then this whole universe may be more illusory than you can imagine right now.

What is an illusionary is that your post carries any meaningful message.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127962 Oct 6, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Figurative and you know that how?
That's just what the people who read Ancient Egyptian say. You know, I suppose a people who write using pictures might not be figurative. I guess that's possible. Perhaps the experts are wrong, as you claim they are for any matter regarding your dearly held beliefs?

Speaking from personal experience, kanji is figurative. It's a less obvious kind of figurative than Hieroglyphics, but it's still figurative. When you read it you don't hear words, you just see symbols. But, hey, don't believe me. Just go learn how to read Chinese or Japanese. It will only take you 3 years of practices 3 hours a day - but I'm here for you :)
For the Temple of Solomon?
I was referring to the papyrus, not the Temple of Solomon.
They revolted. They left. Things do not survive history.
You are aware that the Ancient Egyptians wrote stuff down, right? If half a million Jews all left at once, and these people were responsible for building the pyramids, it would have been noted. So would the military loss in the Red Sea. So would the first borns.
Inference. Neither Amenhotep ii or Thutmose 1V were firstborn sons.
Oh. My mistake. They probably wouldn't have noticed then if all their first born children died on the same night. I mean, who would notice such a thing?
That is what the account says and is given the benefit of the doubt.
Why? Because it's your religion? Because you have some need to prove your mythology correct?

Is this why you so desperately argue against biology? Would you like to argue that birds evolved before lizards, that pi = 3, that the world is flat and all that?
Again, all the ancients regarded it as valid history.
No. You can get away with "most of the Jews" but not "all the ancients."

If your statement is correct, provide the evidence. Where do the Egyptians record this? Where do the Babylonians record this - and why does the Babylonian flood predate the Jewish flood? Why do the laws of the OT first appear in the Code of Hammurabi?

Why were there three separate accounts of Exodus? Why were these later stitched together by one "redactor"?
You, on the other hand say it is all myth based on your atheism.
No, no. Evidence oh Lightbeam, evidence.
To question your philosophy of science is to somehow question Science itself. To be guilty of anti-science. When it is your atheistic assumptions which is in question and subsequently your interpretation of history. That is not exactly the same as being anti-science.
Scientists commit fraud, are political, lie, cheat, steal, sell out for money, are ignorant, lazy, insane, insecure, etc., etc. They are human. We don't know everything - we can't, it's impossible.

The redeeming quality of science is that it works to remove human observer bias from information gathering. That's why it's the most powerful information producing tool we've ever invented. Nothing else comes remotely close - not a thing.

No religion has added to knowledge like science has. Religion has done everything in its power to stall science - you people hate it. Look at what you write! You want your myths to be held dear and unchanging and will do anything to keep people believing in them.

It's perfectly fine to question science - in fact, we all should. To question science entails learning how it works, understanding how methodology works, learning to be critical of yourself and others.

You are absolutely ignorant of science. You don't know how it works - I am saddened by this. What's worse - far, far worse - is that you are dishonest about your ignorance. You never write "well, I cannot evaluate their claims." What you write is "they are wrong because I say so and I believe in this religion."

What kind of religion requires this level of dishonesty? Only a cowardly one.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127963 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
The same thing is true of Jericho (and other cities mentioned in the Bible). Only, unlike you, our early Bible editors and writers weren't aware of that - they literally were ignorant. They assumed, incorrectly, that the cities they were aware of always existed.
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> The ancients assumed the cities always existed.
Yes! Exactly - they didn't know better. Hence they added cities into their mythologies anachronistically - outside of time. That's how we know the Bible was written after the fact, edited after the fact, and is not historically accurate.
They were ''literally ignorant''? Here's another little gem from Hiding. Do you base your conclusions on scientific method or once again are you talking out of a place other than your mouth? Pulling historical rabbits out of fictional hats?
You just wrote above "The ancients assumed the cities always existed." How is this state not ignorant???

Since you don't seem to understand, the word "ignorant" means "is unaware of." You, LB, are ignorant of biology and archaeology - you are unaware of how biology and arky work. Don't feel too bad (except for the dishonesty), we're all ignorant of something (but we don't all lie about it).

When OT writers claim "the Hebrews walked by Jericho" and Jericho WAS NOT PRESENT AT THE DATES GIVEN they are making their stories up. Lying. Producing mythology. They were literally ignorant that Jericho was not present at the time of their story.

And why would they know? It's not like they had k-12 and universities to tell them this stuff. Unlike you, who has no excuse not to understand basic science (well, honestly, we can blame your society and religion), almost no one at that time could have known about their past. They only knew through their writings - this is why mythologies were such a powerful tool of control, identity and unification.

Really, do I need to explain this to you? Someone pipe in here and express shock, please, because this just seems over the top clueless, what I have to explain to these creationists.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127964 Oct 6, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if buck is reading.
Nah. Buck doesn't care for the particulars of any given religion. Buck believes that all religions are close to the truth - they all understand some part of the creator, but not the whole.

Buck's welcome to chime in if I have his ideology incorrect.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#127965 Oct 6, 2012
Anon wrote:
Where is Bob of Quantum Faith? Talk about fallin' off the map...
He's happy. I have inside information on this topic. Bob is happy and does not feel the need to confront the religious.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#127966 Oct 6, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you have any archaeological evidence supporting the Exodus? No. it is a myth: a nationalistic propaganda piece.
Exodus is real.

I have the MP3.

It's by Bob Marley

Anon
#127967 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
He's happy. I have inside information on this topic. Bob is happy and does not feel the need to confront the religious.
Thanx.
Godzillla

Nagoya, Japan

#127968 Oct 6, 2012

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127969 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
That's flux density.
Each magnetic flow or electrical flow starts and returns to the same piece of matter. It is a polarity relative only to that chunk.
Garbage yet again. Please learn how it really works. Like this, the rest of your post has no connection with reality.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127970 Oct 6, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
What we call space is part of the mechanics of the universe.
Just a charge field occupying a portion of it changes the inherent value of it. Creates a density differential. This is the basis of gravity. This is something you find within atoms, so this is what gives the illusion of gravity being some mysterious inside out phenomenon, and the Higgs' boson theory.
LMAO. Do you have any connection to *real* physics, or do you just make this all up? It looks like the latter. The rest of your post is more of the same fantasy.

“MEET KIKI -She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#127971 Oct 6, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>So...no. Modern archaeology does not support Biblical literally. It shows that the Bible is a mythology designed to forge an identity and unity for the ancient Hebrew people. Over the years it was edited repeatedly as the times changed to keep their Holy book relevant.
.. the Book of Mormon claims the Lamanites, a lost tribe from Israel, made their way to the New World around 600 B.C. Their descendants became known as Native Americans ..

.. for decades, archaeologists and linguists outside Mormonism knew Native Americans were not Israelites. Still, LDS apologists dismissed the scientific findings, even changing Lamanite settlements to South American ..

.. enter DNA evidence which conclusively proved Native Americans are not Israelites ..

.. pick up a recent printing of the Book of Mormon. In the introduction, you'll find the following: "Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians." ..

.. you gotta have faith baby, you gotta have faith ..

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