Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 08

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#127828 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>How so? I am genuinely asking you to give me a primer in Dave world theory. Prove it, and don't tell me to swing magnets around.
Go back through my posts for the last 2 years.

If I thought you were sincere, which I know you aren't, I would consider posting an update of them.

It's all basic applied physics expanded. No voodoo.

“Proverbs 12:16”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#127829 Oct 5, 2012
EMS Servant wrote:
<quoted text>
Which historians believe this document to be fiction?
BTW the technical name is Leiden Payprus #344 it is located in the National Archeological Museum in Netherlands.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127830 Oct 5, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really look at the archeology for the area you will find itís sparse. Iím not talking about pyramids per say. Lots of archeology there but beyond that it is very scarce.
Why don't you try reading what the archaeologists have to say:

http://www.ekt.bme.hu/CM-BSC-MSC/WhoBuiltTheP...

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127831 Oct 5, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Funny, poly. I have a book that says the Exodus IS real...
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your "evidence".
Again, try reading what archaeologists say.

http://www.ekt.bme.hu/CM-BSC-MSC/WhoBuiltTheP...

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127832 Oct 5, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you stopped beating your wife?
What? Lol

“Proverbs 12:16”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#127833 Oct 5, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you stopped beating your wife?
So I guess you don't have an answer on any historians who believe that document to be ficiton. So you are speaking from your own "expert opinion"? Do you have a terminal degree in archeology or ancient history?...or was that a comment fired from somewhere other than your mouth?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#127834 Oct 5, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Evidence in the form of:
1. accounting writings (food and pay for laborers)
2. laborer graves
3. descriptions of where the laborers come from, when they worked
4. descriptions of slaves in Egypt
<quoted text>
Sure. Provide some archaeological evidence, as I have to back up your bold assertions.
<quoted text>
The archaeology is often done by Jews, supported by Israel. They have every reason to say "gosh, look the Bible is legitimate" but they don't, because they're trained archaeologists. And the nation of Israel is stronger than that - they don't need to deny the findings of archaeology to feel good about themselves. They freely acknowledge what the Bible is: a mythology designed to provide cultural identity to the ancient Israelites.
Thanks!

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127835 Oct 5, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Go back through my posts for the last 2 years.
If I thought you were sincere, which I know you aren't, I would consider posting an update of them.
It's all basic applied physics expanded. No voodoo.
I am certainly not going to do that. But fine.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127836 Oct 5, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Answer the question please. It is a legit question. You made the statement it is fiction. Now back it up.

Since: Mar 11

Florence, KY

#127837 Oct 5, 2012
It is the truth.

Zero proof of Hebrew slaves in Egypt on some massive scale. Egyptians themselves were more likely to be slaves and they were not allowed to work on prestigious projects.

Zero proof of the exodus.

Zero passages in the bible saying Moses' people built the pyramids.

Everything else is your speculation nothing more.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>That very well could have been the case. Except for the fact that slavery was a major part of the time period. And a super power like Egypt couldn’t have that kind of power without slavery. I mean who are we kidding, if we don’t believe slavery was used?

If Hoover Dam had been built in this time period in Egypt. I guarantee you slaves would have been used. Slavery was a part of the landscape. Egypt was no different than any other nation in the region.

If you were the Pharaoh and had a choice between free labor or paid labor which would you have chosen? If you go with paid labor you won’t be able to do major projects without depleting the national treasury.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127838 Oct 5, 2012
EMS Servant wrote:
<quoted text>
So I guess you don't have an answer on any historians who believe that document to be ficiton. So you are speaking from your own "expert opinion"? Do you have a terminal degree in archeology or ancient history?...or was that a comment fired from somewhere other than your mouth?
I believe several historians who believe it to be fiction have already been named.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#127839 Oct 5, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, I have an archeology book written by a couple of Israeli scholars who acknowledge that the Exodus is a fairy tale.
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your viewpoint.
Many Jews assert that the Torah is "poetry" and "parables" and never was intended or accepted as "science" and "history".

There are a few literalist/fundamnetlaist Jews, just as in Christianity and Islam, that can not tell the difference between legend from reality.

Although vocal (and often violent) they do not reflect the mainstream adherents to thir respective religions.
Sadly, few within the religions have the balls to denounce their radical and ignorant bretheren.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127840 Oct 5, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Answer the question please. It is a legit question. You made the statement it is fiction. Now back it up.
It already has been backed up. But would anything convince you anyway? You consider the bible true by default. If you could hop in a time machine to go check for yourself, and you found no evidence, you would probably rationalize it as the devil tricking you or a test from god.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127841 Oct 5, 2012
EMS Servant wrote:
<quoted text>
So I guess you don't have an answer on any historians who believe that document to be ficiton. So you are speaking from your own "expert opinion"? Do you have a terminal degree in archeology or ancient history?...or was that a comment fired from somewhere other than your mouth?
My point is that you asked a misleading question. No historians would describe that document as accurate if they read it. But no historian would read it, it's just fiction.

We have to reverse your strange request and ask "which archaeologists describe that document as authentic?" And, remember, when we're talking about Egypt and Exodus, we're using archaeologists, not historians.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#127842 Oct 5, 2012
EMS Servant wrote:
<quoted text>
Reference the Ipuwer Papyrus, it dates to about the same time as when the Bible places the Exodus and describes many of the same calamaties as well as slaves rebeling and leaving their masters. It was originally discovered in 1909 so it's certainly been around for a while.
Here is a translation:
http://www.google.com/url...
It's been dated to the 13th Dynasty(1802-1649 BCE).

Which, removes it from any association with biblical stories.

It doesn't add up.

“Proverbs 12:16”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#127843 Oct 5, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I believe several historians who believe it to be fiction have already been named.
I have yet to see anyone mention anything regarding Leiden Payprus #344 aside the allegation that it is fiction. Was Leiden Payprus #344 already discussed? If so it shouldn't be that hard to list at least one historian who has come to that conclusion as I had requested.

“Ditat Deus”

Since: Jul 12

Location hidden

#127844 Oct 5, 2012
So......

NONE of you have solid proof that The Bible is a myth, or fairy tale....

Right.

Got it.

You BELIEVE it to be so.......

Admit that. If nothing else.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127845 Oct 5, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Answer the question please. It is a legit question. You made the statement it is fiction. Now back it up.
So anyone can just post a paper of a "translation" and it's legitimate until we demonstrate how many scientists denounce it?

That's crazy, but it exemplifies how you creationists think.

He did not post a legitimate scholarly article, but some body's fiction. If it's legitimate, why didn't he cite an academic source? Why isn't it being discussed in archaeology?

He didn't even post a legitimate question, but a logical fallacy - the same logical fallacy as the question I asked in return. He's making unwarranted assumptions within the question itself.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#127846 Oct 5, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
You're talking nonsense.
Comment from a Jewish archaeologist.
Israel Finkelstein, the director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University: "Archaeology has shown that early Israel indeed emerged from the local population of late Bronze Canaan." In addition, he said, archaeology has turned up no physical remains to support the Bible's story of the Exodus: "There is no evidence for the wanderings of the Israelites in the Sinai desert." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Finkelste...
Comment from a Christian archaeologist.
William Dever writes: "The overwhelming archaeological evidence today of largely indigenous origins for early Israel leaves no room for an exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Dever
There is no evidence for the "Exodus", because there is no evidence.
<quoted text> Irrelevant to this conversation, but yes, and those are verifiable historical events, in numerous ways. There is proof available concerning those events.
<quoted text> The Jewish people exist and are not in question here. That they celebrate Passover does not verify or prove the "Exodus".
There is no proof for the "Exodus".
<quoted text>
I suppose that would mean Israel Finkelstein, the director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University and numerous other Jewish archaeologists and scholars are Antisemitic, too?
Your Antisemitic comment is reprehensible.
<quoted text> The Alamo happened, it is supported historically, and we aren't talking about the Alamo.
There is no proof concerning the "Exodus".
You have no proof the Exodus didnít happen.

Iím standing on the Biblical account. Which was not written last week but thousands of years ago.

The fact the Jews celebrate the Passover and have for thousands of years.

Slavery was common place for the period.

The insurmountable task of building the pyramids required massive amounts of labor.

No nation could afford to pay thousands of employees during the time period and remain solvent.

There're political reasons and cause not to bring forth further evidence in reference to the Exodus.

Plagues are not impossible and have happened throughout history.

Egypt was a super power. Then it slid into a third world status. What caused this slide? A. Exodus.

Wondering 40 years in the desert is a very insignificant amount of time when you compare it to ethnic groups that have lived thousands of years in one region.

Very little archeological excavating and searching has been conduct outside of the pyramids. Some perhaps but not near enough to support the claims of no Exodus.

The Exodus happened, sorry that it goes against what you believe but it did happen.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127847 Oct 5, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Answer the question please. It is a legit question. You made the statement it is fiction. Now back it up.
"Fringe historians often compare the content of this papyrus with Exodus, the second book of the Bible [1]. Similarities between Egyptian texts and the Bible are easily found, and it is reasonable to assume Egyptian influence on the Hebrews, given their at times close contacts. But to conclude from such parallelisms that the Ipuwer Papyrus describes Egypt at the time of the Exodus, requires a leap of faith not everybody is willing to make."

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/ipu...

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