Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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#127804
Oct 5, 2012
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>And of course, nothing.
Worth responding to. True.

“Proverbs 12:16”

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#127805
Oct 5, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> And i am pointing out to you and everyone here around 2500 or so years ago those people believed the Exodus happened. You and others are saying they are wrong. Amenhotep II was not the first born son of his father and his first born son did not go to the throne. Remember the first born was to die? It is Thutmose III then Amenhotep II then Thutmose IV. Answer my question. Why would they write the Exodus as a marker if the event did not happen? 1 Kings 6:1
Reference the Ipuwer Papyrus, it dates to about the same time as when the Bible places the Exodus and describes many of the same calamaties as well as slaves rebeling and leaving their masters. It was originally discovered in 1909 so it's certainly been around for a while.

Here is a translation:

http://www.google.com/url...

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#127806
Oct 5, 2012
 
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text> LULZ...
You only believe "your ancients". All others, in your opinion, are fakes.
Do you believe Vishnu exists?
Why?
We are not addressing Vishnu which is a red herring. We are addressing an event. The Exodus. Here is an interesting article.

A papyrus dating from the end of the old kingdom was found in the early 19th century in Egypt. It seems to be an eyewitness account of the events preceding the dissolution of the Old Kingdom. It's author, an Egyptain named Ipuwer, writes:

Plague is throughout the land. Blood is everywhere.
The river is blood.
That is our water! That is our happiness! What shall we do in respect thereof? All is ruin!
Trees are destroyed.
No fruit or herb found...
Forsooth, gates, columns and walls are consumed by fire.
Forsooth, grain has perished from every side.
The land is not light [dark].

http://www.starways.net/lisa/essays/exodus.ht...

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#127807
Oct 5, 2012
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> As can historical method. You have two accounts Egyptian and Hebrew. Critics are far more critical of Hebrew as it relate to the Old Testament. When you look at both accounts there are some interesting parallels. They have the records of the Pharoahs and their accomplishments in warfare and building construction which jibes with Scripture accounts for that period in many ways. The Exodus as history is plausable to say the least if one looks at all the available evidence with an open mind using historical method. More later. Got the info at home. At work now.
There's more than two accounts. We have the written accounts, plus the archaeological evidence. When they coincide, they support each other. When they contradict, something is wrong. Archaeologists side with the arky data since it enjoys greater objectivity.

Sure, the Exodus as history is plausible. Most of the of the non-miracles accounts of history in the Bible are plausible. The problem is the Exodus story just happens to be false. All the arky tells us this - and you know what? The Jews of Israel have no problems understanding what Exodus is, a unification story to provide solidification and identity for the Israelites. It separated them from the other peoples in the region and justified their conquest of some of the lands.

These kinds of stories aren't rare. The "we walked for a long time and our deity gave us this land" is a recurring theme. The Aztecs used it, too. Their deity, Quetzalcoatl, gave them Tenochtitlan (Mexico city) and told them where to stop by having an Eagle with a ribbon in its mouth (now a snake, now on their peso).

Do you believe it? Do you believe Quetzalcoatl divinely told the Aztecs where to build their city?

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#127808
Oct 5, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Letís stay focused, weíre not talking about vampires, dragons, and other characters which have nothing to do with the Exodus.
hahahaha! Oh, that's great on soooooooooo many levels!

Thanks!

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#127809
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Slaves didn't pay taxes. They were property of the State.
Exactly! This is the problem with your argument. The accounting records quite clearly indicate that the builders of the pyramids were not slaves.

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#127810
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
The truth?
Like the Egyptians put up a bid?
Then hired a contractor with the lowest bid?
Well the contractor so happened to be ďAbraham & Sons Inc.Ē
No one could out bid them because they supplied free labor.
The truth is it was forced labor. Slave labor.
Why do you need it to be slave labor so badly, despite the findings of archaeology?

I see your problem here as a general problem of your religion - it denies science. You deny biological science, history and now archaeology.

What you're doing is precisely what the Exodus story in the OT does: creating a mythological story to give you a religious identity.

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#127811
Oct 5, 2012
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually he made a reality point.
Archeology in the Middle East is repressed by both sides because of the political implications. Since 1949 the archeology and history of the area has been little science and more "prove my religion".
In recent years, say the last 30, those trying to "prove my religion" aren't archaeologists, but religious people supported by their churches. They don't do archaeology, make stuff up and are incapable of extracting evidence from their "finds."

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#127812
Oct 5, 2012
 
EMS Servant wrote:
<quoted text>
Reference the Ipuwer Papyrus, it dates to about the same time as when the Bible places the Exodus and describes many of the same calamaties as well as slaves rebeling and leaving their masters. It was originally discovered in 1909 so it's certainly been around for a while.
Here is a translation:
http://www.google.com/url...
Pure fiction.

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#127813
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
There's more than two accounts. We have the written accounts, plus the archaeological evidence. When they coincide, they support each other. When they contradict, something is wrong. Archaeologists side with the arky data since it enjoys greater objectivity.
Sure, the Exodus as history is plausible. Most of the of the non-miracles accounts of history in the Bible are plausible. The problem is the Exodus story just happens to be false. All the arky tells us this - and you know what? The Jews of Israel have no problems understanding what Exodus is, a unification story to provide solidification and identity for the Israelites. It separated them from the other peoples in the region and justified their conquest of some of the lands.
These kinds of stories aren't rare. The "we walked for a long time and our deity gave us this land" is a recurring theme. The Aztecs used it, too. Their deity, Quetzalcoatl, gave them Tenochtitlan (Mexico city) and told them where to stop by having an Eagle with a ribbon in its mouth (now a snake, now on their peso).
Do you believe it? Do you believe Quetzalcoatl divinely told the Aztecs where to build their city?
...ah, the story of the Mexodus, good read...

“Proverbs 12:16”

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#127815
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Pure fiction.
Which historians believe this document to be fiction?

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#127816
Oct 5, 2012
 

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You atheists and your prove this & prove that. You wanna end this debate? Don't give opinion, conjecture or lies. Give the honest, true proof that you think you have that The Bible is a myth.
I'll wait.

“The eye has it...”

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#127817
Oct 5, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
There're political implications that prevents real evidence from coming forward regarding to the Exodus story. These blocks and obstacles stand in the way of truth. These nations that have a deep seated hatred for Israel will never admit to the Exodus.

You're talking nonsense.

Comment from a Jewish archaeologist.
Israel Finkelstein, the director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University: "Archaeology has shown that early Israel indeed emerged from the local population of late Bronze Canaan." In addition, he said, archaeology has turned up no physical remains to support the Bible's story of the Exodus: "There is no evidence for the wanderings of the Israelites in the Sinai desert." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Finkelste...

Comment from a Christian archaeologist.
William Dever writes: "The overwhelming archaeological evidence today of largely indigenous origins for early Israel leaves no room for an exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Dever

There is no evidence for the "Exodus", because there is no evidence.
Eagle12 wrote:
Celebrations and Holidays can be traced back in time as to their origins. For example we have the Forth of July in the United States. Mexico has Cinco de Mayo. France has Bastille day.
Irrelevant to this conversation, but yes, and those are verifiable historical events, in numerous ways. There is proof available concerning those events.
Eagle12 wrote:
The Jews have the Passover.The Passover has its origins from Exodus. It in itself is evidence.
The Jewish people exist and are not in question here. That they celebrate Passover does not verify or prove the "Exodus".

There is no proof for the "Exodus".
Eagle12 wrote:
Denying the Passover is an act of antisemitism. Youíre saying to the Jews, you have no historical record.
I suppose that would mean Israel Finkelstein, the director of the Institute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University and numerous other Jewish archaeologists and scholars are Antisemitic, too?

Your Antisemitic comment is reprehensible.
Eagle12 wrote:
Hey look, stick you head in the sand or put on blinders if it makes your day. Telling the Jews the Passover didnít happen is like telling a Texan the Alamo never happened. We know different and both the Alamo and the Exodus happened.
The Alamo happened, it is supported historically, and we aren't talking about the Alamo.

There is no proof concerning the "Exodus".

“In the beginning God Created..”

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#127818
Oct 5, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey.
I AM the teacher.
And you have earned an F so far.
Nope, you're the snitch hall monitor.

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#127819
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Funny, poly. I have a book that says the Exodus IS real...
Sorry, but the actual facts don't support your "evidence".

“In the beginning God Created..”

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#127820
Oct 5, 2012
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh Eagle, You proved you can be humurous and intelligent. If all your posts were as good as this one, I know several 'non-believers' who would respect you.
:)

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#127821
Oct 5, 2012
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually he made a reality point.
Archeology in the Middle East is repressed by both sides because of the political implications. Since 1949 the archeology and history of the area has been little science and more "prove my religion".
No, he didn't. Questioning a story whose only evidence is from the bible is not antisemitism. That's ridiculous. He compared 'exodus denial' with holocaust denial, do you really think they're on the same level?

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#127822
Oct 5, 2012
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Worth responding to. True.
How so? I am genuinely asking you to give me a primer in Dave world theory. Prove it, and don't tell me to swing magnets around.

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#127823
Oct 5, 2012
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Let it go, Scar.
This Eagle dude will never rise above moronic.
Let's take the Jewish approach and passover his post.
You're probably right.

lolerbat...

However, I responded. I'll see how it goes from here.

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#127824
Oct 5, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you need it to be slave labor so badly, despite the findings of archaeology?
I see your problem here as a general problem of your religion - it denies science. You deny biological science, history and now archaeology.
What you're doing is precisely what the Exodus story in the OT does: creating a mythological story to give you a religious identity.
If you really look at the archeology for the area you will find itís sparse. Iím not talking about pyramids per say. Lots of archeology there but beyond that it is very scarce.

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