Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127555 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt you are a expert on Egyptian history. I would guess you believe the pyramids were built by Egyptians and not slaves. Isn’t this what the Egyptians claim?
At one time Egypt was the super power in the entire world.
Wrong. It never controlled the Americas. It never controlled China. it never conquered the Babylonians. It was certainly a very strong *regional* power, but certainly NOT a world superpower.
With advances in engineering and slave labor to build their empire. Then something happened that turned them from a super power to a struggling nation.
Actually, this happened several different times. That is generally what distinguishes one Kingdom from the Intermediate periods and the following Kingdoms.

For example, during the second intermediate period, Egypt was controlled by the Hyksos. Afterwards came the Third kingdom when Amenhotep, Ramses II, Tutankhamen, and many other famous pharaohs lived. During much of this period, the Egyptians controlled much of what is now Israel and Lebanon. Funny that the Bible never mentions this, huh?
They never recovered from the Exodus and the great loss they suffered from the plagues.
Of course, the invasion of the Sea Peoples doesn't enter into your version at all, does it? Considering that they were almost certainly associated with the Philistines, you have some historical problems on your hands if you want to interpret the Bible as being fact. Also, this same invasion was felt at Troy and is associated with the Dorian invasion of the Greeks.

There is no historical or archaeological evidence of either the plagues or the Exodus. There is plenty of evidence from all over the East Mediterranean of the invasions of the Sea Peoples. They *did* trigger a decline in the power of Egypt, but even the third Kingdom lasted well into the first millennium BC. Again, that doesn't quite agree with your Biblical stories.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127556 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
The problem with gravity as you see it is that is is a distributed mass, and thus, relative strengths.
The problem for me is not with gravity at all, but with your magical poetry. I never know what you're talking about.

Gravity is not a distributed mass. It is a force. Even if it were a mass, "thus, relative strengths" is meaningless. You seem to be saying that because gravity is mass, therefore strengths are relative. What in hell are you talking about?

I kind of gave up after that.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#127557 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times. Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.
Not unless the Exodus is somehow associated with the Sea Peoples (and hence the Philistines and the Dorian Greeks).
Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.
The pyramids were built primarily in the *first* kingdom, not the third. Most of the pharaohs of the later kingdoms simply re-used the older pyramids of their ancestors.
You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. There’s no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.
Not unless they left *far* earlier than you seem to think. The first kingdom ended about 2000BC. Since Egypt was actually controlled by a foreign power during the second intermediate period, that doesn't quite agree with the Biblical story.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#127558 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times.
That has nothing to do with there being no evidence supporting the biblical "Exodus". That point is agreed upon by Judaic and Christian scholars alike.
Eagle12 wrote:
Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.
See Above.
Eagle12 wrote:
Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. There’s no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.
Whatever the dynamics were that the ancient Egyptian civilization utilized in its emergence, society and culture were, there is nothing that points to the biblical "Exodus", being contributor to anything, since there is no evidence for it, and additionally, Egypt continued far beyond the alleged and unsupported time period that the biblical "Exodus", was said to have occurred.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127559 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
That is your basic motivation, IANS. Man's wanting to set himself free and do what we will.
And here is the basic difference between an ideology of empowerment, freedom, self-actualization like mine and the one I advocate, and yours, which is all about conformity and submission. That's your priests voices echoing through the millennia through you.
Dave Nelson wrote:
However, as an individual unit of the collective "man", you have to transfer your desires to the collective.
There it is. I knew that you were a Communist back when you suggested that my skills belonged to the state, and I had no right to retire early and put them to bed.

Or a Borg.
Dave Nelson wrote:
You see yourself as a one of the brain cells, and not of the brawn, of this new liberated being.
I'm not sure what that bit of poetry meant, but I see myself as a self-contained unit that is part of several nested greater wholes. I'm part of a marriage, part of my social circle and family, part of my community, and part of the community of man and all life on earth.

Notice that I skipped all of the political units - municipality, state, and country. Local and global is all that matters, and nothing between.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127560 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
There is a creative force. If it is a deity you find it easier to delude yourself it isn't there in your headstrong pursuit of following your own desires.
And there it is again. God forbid I have desires and pursue them rather than acquiesce to the collective. What you want for me is what I call an inauthentic existence.

And there is no deity that I need attend to.
Dave Nelson wrote:
This gives you the illusion of free reign. If these other dummies just listened to you, that is.
What does that mean? I get that you despise freedom in all of its manifestations. What dummies do I need to listen to me, and how does that further my agenda of freedom or free reign, whatever that is?

[QUOTE who="Dave Nelson"Deity or not, this creative force let's you live and grow. You will always play its tune. Otherwise say eternal good night.[/QUOTE]

Your wings were clipped long ago. From the pen of the poet :

"Saw a bird with a tear in his eye
Walking to New Orleans - my, oh my!
Hey, now, Bird, wouldn't you rather die
Than walk this world when you're born to fly?"

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127561 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt you are a expert on Egyptian history. I would guess you believe the pyramids were built by Egyptians and not slaves. Isn’t this what the Egyptians claim?
At one time Egypt was the super power in the entire world. With advances in engineering and slave labor to build their empire. Then something happened that turned them from a super power to a struggling nation. They never recovered from the Exodus and the great loss they suffered from the plagues.
Mexico, our southern neighbor, was also a great nation at one time. They had one of the greatest armies in the entire world. They were defeated by a band of rebels and their President captured near what is now the city of Houston. They also never recovered from that loss.
I believe the general consensus is that the builders had quite a decent job, for the time. And almost definitely were not jewish slaves.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#127562 Oct 4, 2012
The bible says Hebrews built the pyramids? What passage is that again?

Sorry as usual you are dead wrong on damn near everything you posted here.
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times. Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.
Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.
You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. There’s no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127563 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you say it is stupid?
Stupid is sitting in one little spot in the universe and pontificating it follows all of the laws determined on that little spot, and everything must then work the way they think it should.
May I point out they are constantly finding things don't?
Modern cosmology is totally built upon gazing at points of light in the sky, and using sensors built upon the "theory" of electricity developed right here in this relativistic spot in the universe. But the significance of that relating to the actual "truth" will escape you. You just gotta believe it is true. Your god need, as IANS likes to put it.
Modern physics is earth based technology that a few heaven gazing guys try to apply to the universe. No different than star gazers of yesteryear.
Let me point out that man has used many, many technologies that he didn't really understand fully at the time. That is still happening today.
No, I don't need to believe it's true. I don't know why believers always try to say that non believers believe just as strongly as they do, just in something else.

Using whatever crackpot theory you "believe in," change my mind. Prove to me that the current models are wrong. Don't appeal to ignorance, don't appeal to design, don't poke holes.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127564 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Forgot to mention that you can throw all sorts of different materials together and run a huge charge through them, and a path will be created if not existing. Part of the transforming of mass and energy. You are a particle within a much larger flow of charge. If you lived as a molecule of copper in a live circuit you may observe the universe as we do here.
Lots of action going one. Don't pretend to know just what it is.
Are you kidding me? "Don't pretend to know what it is," says the most arrogant poster here. Says the person who thinks a few ridiculous experiments in his garage with magnets upends modern physics.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127565 Oct 4, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
The Disciple Series: Holy Infinite Cypher Kibbitz.
The <±.·:*¨`*ELECTRIC±UNIVERSE* ¨`*:·.±>
Of the Blather Mage, Dave Of Zizzy Edicts.
1. Circumpolar Magnetidialectictric Geological Stringy Thingeory.
<±Dave±> "Okay, here is something you can all do yourself. An experiment, if you will. You must first deunderstandify or something like that, and put aside all preconceived notions that the science you understand or have been "taught", has any validity. It may fly in the face of your "so called" Physics, but, I say it plain, unashamedly and without reservation. I march to the beat of a different drum. I boldly go where no man, except me, obviously, HAS GONE BEFORE!... <ahem> ... Now, let me explain; Tie a string to your finger, any bodily appendage thingy will work, but I prefer a finger because it's easy to locate and see. Next, obtain two speaker magnets, say from a Radio Shack™ dumpster. Now, find a rock. Juggle those for 56¼ seconds.... SEE? Amazing, isn't it?
That's called personal experience, I've replicated it hundreds of times, and the "religion science" of today can't adequately explain what just happened there...."
Funniest thing I've ever read.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127566 Oct 4, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
The bible says Hebrews built the pyramids? What passage is that again?
Sorry as usual you are dead wrong on damn near everything you posted here.
<quoted text>
Ha your right it's not even in the bible. Awesome.

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#127567 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times. Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.
Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.
You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. There’s no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.
Egypt used slaves because the bible says so ?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#127568 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times. Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.
Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.
You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. There’s no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.
The slave labor thought to be the builders...Has been proven wrong. The Egyptian people did it where they lived and their tombs have been found. The whole infrastructure has been discovered. The religious story of Hebrew slaves building the pyramids, is a outright lie or highly exaggerated fabrication.
There could have been a few slaves , but it is now known the work was done by the Egyptian people who were paid in grain and food bread etc.

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127569 Oct 4, 2012
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> The slave labor thought to be the builders...Has been proven wrong. The Egyptian people did it where they lived and their tombs have been found. The whole infrastructure has been discovered. The religious story of Hebrew slaves building the pyramids, is a outright lie or highly exaggerated fabrication.
There could have been a few slaves , but it is now known the work was done by the Egyptian people who were paid in grain and food bread etc.
And beer. Lots and lots of beer. Which makes a lot of sense.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#127570 Oct 4, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem for me is not with gravity at all, but with your magical poetry. I never know what you're talking about.
Gravity is not a distributed mass. It is a force. Even if it were a mass, "thus, relative strengths" is meaningless. You seem to be saying that because gravity is mass, therefore strengths are relative. What in hell are you talking about?
I kind of gave up after that.
You don't understand what gravity is or how it is distributed.

You can think of the total gravitation force of the universe as circuits of relative resistance, the conductance being determined by the amount of mass and proximity of those masses to each other, or you can think of all of the masses adding up the other way to come up with the total force for the universe.

If you go strolling past Betelgeuse, you will have greater gravity force exerted on you than strolling past our sun for the same distance away. Therefore the strengths are relative. You will also have different values of those strengths pulling on you from different directions.

That was my third or fourth attempt to put it real plain, but which would not work anyhow because you view gravity as a thing, and not part of a process. However, it did help kick something into gear in my head. So you aren't totally useless.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#127571 Oct 4, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
No twist, simple observations of you own posts.
Here's a simple observation for you. You are either a muslim or you wish your were. You are a bigot; you hate all christians and anyone who does not love the muslims. muslims and christians are the same. Some are horrible people and some not some, not so much.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#127572 Oct 4, 2012
Yes we have documented proof the Egyptian workers worked for jars of beer which at the time was a tradable currency! Awesome!
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>And beer. Lots and lots of beer. Which makes a lot of sense.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#127573 Oct 4, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>No, I don't need to believe it's true. I don't know why believers always try to say that non believers believe just as strongly as they do, just in something else.
Using whatever crackpot theory you "believe in," change my mind. Prove to me that the current models are wrong. Don't appeal to ignorance, don't appeal to design, don't poke holes.
The models keep failing. They don't last very long. They keep getting patched to maintain some semblance of continuity. Apologetics,

Quit poking holes in religion.

But you are quite free to have faith in your system. I'm just telling you it has some serious problems. Just like you do with religion.

Technology is not science theory. Simple observation and tweaking. The evolution of it has resulted in what we have today, not the theoretical science you will be claiming is responsible.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#127574 Oct 4, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
And there it is again. God forbid I have desires and pursue them rather than acquiesce to the collective. What you want for me is what I call an inauthentic existence.
And there is no deity that I need attend to.
<quoted text>
What does that mean? I get that you despise freedom in all of its manifestations. What dummies do I need to listen to me, and how does that further my agenda of freedom or free reign, whatever that is?
<quoted text>
Your wings were clipped long ago. From the pen of the poet :
"Saw a bird with a tear in his eye
Walking to New Orleans - my, oh my!
Hey, now, Bird, wouldn't you rather die
Than walk this world when you're born to fly?"
Birds flying are more likely to get shot with BB guns than birds walking.

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