Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 243300 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127604 Oct 4, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Yes. Not always in the way or in the time we would like.
Oh good, if you believe in prayer, here's a story for you--not new, but worth repeating:
A kid wanted a bicycle. So he prayed for one, but it didn't come. He prayed some more, and still no hint of a bicycle. So he prayed even harder. Still no bicycle. Finally he decided his prayers for a bicycle would not be answered and he had to take matters into his own hands.
So he went out and stole a bicycle...and prayed for forgiveness.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127605 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Read my lips. Pay attention.
You said:
"And if they find convincing evidence that demonstrates an existing theory is incorrect, they revise it accordingly."
Such happens on a continuing basis.
Logical conclusion:
THEN YOU CAN'T TAKE WHAT THEY PROCLAIM NOW AS THE "TRUTH".
Thank you for your attention.
You haven't said anything new Dave.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127606 Oct 4, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave...shocking as this may sound, archaeology relies on evidence based methodologies, not pure speculation by "armchair fantasizers."
Science has shown, again and again, that personal introspection does not produce facts. You're stuck in this mode and, for reasons of insecurity, dislike the people who actually use methodologies to produce knowledge.
You are emotional and irrational tonight. More so than usual.

Slaves usually require security to prevent escape, particularly if they look like their masters. That adds a lot of overhead to a budget.

Conscripts and contractors don't. The law catches up with them if they default.

You don't have a very good understanding of how people live together in civilizations. Old and new. Too much stereotyping from reading too many books in lieu of actually thinking.

Ask draftees if they considered they were slaves. They worked right along with the contracted. The government "owned" both of them.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127607 Oct 4, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't said anything new Dave.
Flawless logic elicits such responses from you.

You just won't let it shake your religious belief.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127608 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times. Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.

Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.
You don't see how pharaoh could afford to build a pyramid without slave? If you weren't a pharaoh, you worked for enough to eat and a roof, which is also what a slave costs.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#127609 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. There’s no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.
Not Hebrew ones.

The evidence suggests that the Jews were never captive in Egypt and therefore neither escaped from Egypt, nor wandered the deserts south of Canaan for forty years through

There is no evidence of a violent and cataclysmic fall of Jericho by invading forces from afar. The Jews were local indigenes. Therefore, there was no Abraham migrating from Ur, nor any Egyptian captivity, nor any exodus.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#127610 Oct 4, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
That is not what majority scholarship says. That is not what the historians of old say.
I'm not trying to change history. There is no evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
QUOTING:
"A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[22] and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

"Did the Red Sea Part? No Evidence, Archaeologists Say"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/afric...

"Mainstream history and archaeology now consider the Exodus never happened, and the story is an entirely fictional narrative put together between the 8th and 5th centuries BCE. Christian and Jewish literalists do not accept this. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the...

"However, the archeological conclusions are not based primarily on the absence of Sinai evidence. Rather, they are based upon the study of settlement patterns in Israel itself. Surveys of ancient settlements--pottery remains and so forth--make it clear that there simply was no great influx of people around the time of the Exodus (given variously as between 1500-1200 BCE)."
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/...

"No direct archaeological evidence has been found for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the 400-plus years in Egypt, or the Israelites’ miraculous exodus from slavery. No physical trace has been found of 40 years in the Sinai wilderness, and nothing outside of the bible shows Moses existed. The exodus cannot be treated as history because there is no support for it except the bible." http://www.askwhy.co.uk/truth/350Exodus.php

Rabbi David Wolpe shocked the Jewish world when he gave a Passover sermon that suggested that the Exodus as described in the Torah never took place. He has surveyed the available evidence from the Torah, the archeological record from the Sinai, and the archeological record from the Levant and concluded that the story of the Exodus is impossible. Rabbi Wolpe is not an atheist. In fact he has debated Sam Harris, a prominent atheist, yet he is convinced the Exodus is a fable.

Even some biblical "maximalist" scholars, such as William Dever (a graduate of Christian Theological Seminary), do not believe the Exodus occurred.
Dever says on page 1: "Finally, many of the biblical stories are legend-like and abound with miraculous and fantastic elements that strain the credulity of almost any modern reader of almost any religious persuasion. All these factors have contributed to the rise of doubts about the Bible's trustworthiness."

Ultimately, the only thing you need to know to debunk the Bible is what the adherents of the religions based on it think of it. That more than does the job." http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/200...

The Biblical Exodus Story Is Fiction
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-rosch/the...

THE EXODUS MYTH
http://www.concentric.net/~worgar/exodus.htm
lightbeamrider wrote:
You can't change history just because you don't like it.
You're the one that wants to deny or change history, not I.

You simply don't like it when that is illustrated.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127611 Oct 4, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not trying to change history. There is no evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
QUOTING:
"A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[22] and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus
"Did the Red Sea Part? No Evidence, Archaeologists Say"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/afric...
"Mainstream history and archaeology now consider the Exodus never happened, and the story is an entirely fictional narrative put together between the 8th and 5th centuries BCE. Christian and Jewish literalists do not accept this. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the...
"However, the archeological conclusions are not based primarily on the absence of Sinai evidence. Rather, they are based upon the study of settlement patterns in Israel itself. Surveys of ancient settlements--pottery remains and so forth--make it clear that there simply was no great influx of people around the time of the Exodus (given variously as between 1500-1200 BCE)."
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/...
"No direct archaeological evidence has been found for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the 400-plus years in Egypt, or the Israelites’ miraculous exodus from slavery. No physical trace has been found of 40 years in the Sinai wilderness, and nothing outside of the bible shows Moses existed. The exodus cannot be treated as history because there is no support for it except the bible." http://www.askwhy.co.uk/truth/350Exodus.php
Rabbi David Wolpe shocked the Jewish world when he gave a Passover sermon that suggested that the Exodus as described in the Torah never took place. He has surveyed the available evidence from the Torah, the archeological record from the Sinai, and the archeological record from the Levant and concluded that the story of the Exodus is impossible. Rabbi Wolpe is not an atheist. In fact he has debated Sam Harris, a prominent atheist, yet he is convinced the Exodus is a fable.
Even some biblical "maximalist" scholars, such as William Dever (a graduate of Christian Theological Seminary), do not believe the Exodus occurred.
Dever says on page 1: "Finally, many of the biblical stories are legend-like and abound with miraculous and fantastic elements that strain the credulity of almost any modern reader of almost any religious persuasion. All these factors have contributed to the rise of doubts about the Bible's trustworthiness."
Ultimately, the only thing you need to know to debunk the Bible is what the adherents of the religions based on it think of it. That more than does the job." http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/200...
The Biblical Exodus Story Is Fiction
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-rosch/the...
THE EXODUS MYTH
http://www.concentric.net/~worgar/exodus.htm
<quoted text>
You're the one that wants to deny or change history, not I.
You simply don't like it when that is illustrated.
Amusing. You are the type that would think words on a blackboard were never written because they were erased.

The book can't be total fiction. Lasted too damned long for that, and the stories are just too off the wall to be fiction.

Israel was conquered by Egypt for a while. One of their vassal states. The area was full of skilled workers and artisans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pales...

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127612 Oct 4, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not trying to change history. There is no evidence for the Biblical Exodus.
QUOTING:
"A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[22] and most archaeologists have abandoned the archaeological investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus
"Did the Red Sea Part? No Evidence, Archaeologists Say"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/afric...
"Mainstream history and archaeology now consider the Exodus never happened, and the story is an entirely fictional narrative put together between the 8th and 5th centuries BCE. Christian and Jewish literalists do not accept this. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the...
"However, the archeological conclusions are not based primarily on the absence of Sinai evidence. Rather, they are based upon the study of settlement patterns in Israel itself. Surveys of ancient settlements--pottery remains and so forth--make it clear that there simply was no great influx of people around the time of the Exodus (given variously as between 1500-1200 BCE)."
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/...
"No direct archaeological evidence has been found for Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the 400-plus years in Egypt, or the Israelites’ miraculous exodus from slavery. No physical trace has been found of 40 years in the Sinai wilderness, and nothing outside of the bible shows Moses existed. The exodus cannot be treated as history because there is no support for it except the bible." http://www.askwhy.co.uk/truth/350Exodus.php
Rabbi David Wolpe shocked the Jewish world when he gave a Passover sermon that suggested that the Exodus as described in the Torah never took place. He has surveyed the available evidence from the Torah, the archeological record from the Sinai, and the archeological record from the Levant and concluded that the story of the Exodus is impossible. Rabbi Wolpe is not an atheist. In fact he has debated Sam Harris, a prominent atheist, yet he is convinced the Exodus is a fable.
Even some biblical "maximalist" scholars, such as William Dever (a graduate of Christian Theological Seminary), do not believe the Exodus occurred.
Dever says on page 1: "Finally, many of the biblical stories are legend-like and abound with miraculous and fantastic elements that strain the credulity of almost any modern reader of almost any religious persuasion. All these factors have contributed to the rise of doubts about the Bible's trustworthiness."
Ultimately, the only thing you need to know to debunk the Bible is what the adherents of the religions based on it think of it. That more than does the job." http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/200...
The Biblical Exodus Story Is Fiction
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staks-rosch/the...
THE EXODUS MYTH
http://www.concentric.net/~worgar/exodus.htm
<quoted text>
You're the one that wants to deny or change history, not I.
You simply don't like it when that is illustrated.
Look at 1 Kings 6:1. There is a marker there. 480 years after the sons of Israel came out of the land of Egypt. Solomon starts to build his temple. That is the Exodus you claim never happened. That puts it around 1446 BC. Amenhotep II. His firstborn son did not follow in daddy's footstep as Pharoah. You are quoting revisionist historians. Why would they use the Exodus as a marker if the event did not happen?

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#127613 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand what gravity is or how it is distributed.
Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/10/03/his...

“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

Should I peruse Einstein's reasoning or your's?

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#127614 Oct 4, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Look at 1 Kings 6:1. There is a marker there. 480 years after the sons of Israel came out of the land of Egypt. Solomon starts to build his temple. That is the Exodus you claim never happened. That puts it around 1446 BC. Amenhotep II. His firstborn son did not follow in daddy's footstep as Pharoah. You are quoting revisionist historians. Why would they use the Exodus as a marker if the event did not happen?
Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/10/03/his ...

“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

Should I peruse Einstein's reasoning or your's?

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#127615 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing. You are the type that would think words on a blackboard were never written because they were erased.
The book can't be total fiction. Lasted too damned long for that, and the stories are just too off the wall to be fiction.
So because something says this thing occurred in ancient times, and fails to provide any evidence or explanation whatsoever, we must automatically presume it is true because the evidence might have disappeared?
Geez, I guess we should all include cyclopes in encyclopedias as fact from now on.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#127616 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
It is very true. Just read science literature for a while.
Upset when someone questions your religious beliefs?
You do realize, you're using religious belief as an insult, right?

Don't worry. It's only natural.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#127617 Oct 4, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
"BobLoblah" in Sumerian means "small package loser who amorously lies with pigs. Women shun his filth."
Is that why you chose your screen name?
Apt. Very apt.
Blaaaach!
05Oct12.....

.....'hidingfromView' in English means a 'Coward'. EveryOne shuns such excuses for human beings.

Ps:....Is dat vhy you chose your screen name!!!

You should reSet it as 'schidt-for-brains'.

...Very, very appropriate.

Forever and Ever
BobLoblah

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#127618 Oct 4, 2012
Hidingfromyview wrote:
<quoted text>
BobLoblah is Anti-devil's netherregions.
orever and ever, BobLoblah enjoys the benefit of slaying devil's unmentionables like myself.
BobLoblah
05Oct12.....

.....You've said it, ya hypocrite.

Ps:....You remain a schidt-for-brains a psychological LIAR.

Forever and Ever
BobLoblah

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#127619 Oct 4, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Look at 1 Kings 6:1. There is a marker there. 480 years after the sons of Israel came out of the land of Egypt. Solomon starts to build his temple. That is the Exodus you claim never happened. That puts it around 1446 BC. Amenhotep II. His firstborn son did not follow in daddy's footstep as Pharoah. You are quoting revisionist historians. Why would they use the Exodus as a marker if the event did not happen?
I'm merely pointing out there is no history that supports the "Exodus" claim. Archaeologically, it is not evidenced, and from numerous viewpoints.

The same holds true for much of the bible. It does represent historical fiction, but no more than that.

Your claim to authenticity holds no more validity than any other religious belief.

Using your standards, any religious/deity belief, is just as real as your personal religious/deity belief.

One carries no more weight than another.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127620 Oct 4, 2012
The sands of time.

I have places in my yard that have collected 8 inches of wind blown dust in 20 years. That is dust that collected and has been added to the existing dirt through subsidence and has survived erosion from rain and floods. Anything above the level ground on windswept prairies catches dust and piles it up. The higher it gets and the more it catches.

I know it is 8 inches in those places, next to walls and fences, here because I have found sections of the old sprinkler system from 20 years ago with the popup heads that far down. The flat areas were still flush for the most part, or maybe an inch or so below.

The dust we get here has been blowing from the Rockies and the south and west west of there for eons. Wind erosion.

In those places that would be an average of 40 inches of piled up dirt, which is very fine stuff here, in 100 years. That is 400 inches in 1000 years. 800 inches in 2000 years. 800 inches is 66 feet. That is a 6 story building.

Lot of stuff buried deep in the ground that hasn't been found yet in this world.

Reserve judgment about finding relics to substantiate written records.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127621 Oct 4, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>I'm merely pointing out there is no history that supports the "Exodus" claim. Archaeologically, it is not evidenced, and from numerous viewpoints.
The same holds true for much of the bible. It does represent historical fiction, but no more than that.
Your claim to authenticity holds no more validity than any other religious belief.
Using your standards, any religious/deity belief, is just as real as your personal religious/deity belief.
One carries no more weight than another.
Biblical truth Scar.

They fall for that.

Oxymoron though it is.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127622 Oct 4, 2012
anomonyous wrote:
<quoted text>So because something says this thing occurred in ancient times, and fails to provide any evidence or explanation whatsoever, we must automatically presume it is true because the evidence might have disappeared?
Geez, I guess we should all include cyclopes in encyclopedias as fact from now on.
How much of history can be verified to have happened by cross reference and artifacts? Not as much as you think, even to just a few hundred years ago.

“Rising”

Since: Dec 10

Milky Way

#127623 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
Regarding slaves building pyramids.
Rulers and governments have conscripted certain occupations for time immemorial to accomplish certain tasks. Certain national interests will be the reason. A guy could be an architect with a nice business, but if Pharaoh needed a bunch for a special project, he could call them up. Of course they were usually recompensed for it. But that can be called slavery.
Such is usually associated with the military, but the needs of the state can be applied to any occupation put into a national service.
In modern times they send letters. In older times they sent officials and troops to round up the talent, and probably escort them to their temporary job. Which could be a long term one.
Israel had many tradesmen and craftsmen. They could have easily been pressed into service to build pyramids. They would call it slavery.
Giving people a monumental task is a way to unite them to a cause. It is thought that is how the people were motivated to build the pyramids. There is no evidence of a military enforcing a population of slaves . There is considerable evidence some of the worker gang leaders were praised highly and treated fairly close to royalty. The biblical religious mythology about the exodus is at best a fabrication. The evidence show the state is Israel was formed from Canaanites who over 500 years revolted and cast down the hierarchy systems in place.

The exploits of Moses and Joshua fabrications but the exodus may have been started by a handful of revolting slaves and over a 500 year period progressed into the state of Israel.
This is what the archeology shows and absolutely nothing like...
Nothing like a 40 year adventure of military exploits as your book of historical fiction suggests.

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