Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 20 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127582 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I seriously doubt you are a expert on Egyptian history. I would guess you believe the pyramids were built by Egyptians and not slaves. Isnít this what the Egyptians claim?
At one time Egypt was the super power in the entire world. With advances in engineering and slave labor to build their empire. Then something happened that turned them from a super power to a struggling nation. They never recovered from the Exodus and the great loss they suffered from the plagues.
Mexico, our southern neighbor, was also a great nation at one time. They had one of the greatest armies in the entire world. They were defeated by a band of rebels and their President captured near what is now the city of Houston. They also never recovered from that loss.
The Bible is mostly wrong about Egypt. Egypt's records don't corroborate it.

For one thing, the pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid workers. Records of their rate of pay have been discovered.

This is entirely what we should predict since the OT Bible is a mythology book aimed at unifying the Jewish people.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127583 Oct 4, 2012
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly.
God/Universe created itself from an absolute quantum vacuum.
No contradiction and no impossibilities. I have trouble with the anthropomorphic "sky daddy" crap though.
You believe that swill you got more problems than that. Universe create self is a logical absurdity. Don't beleieve in miracles but do believe universe created self. Only on Topix. Did you create yourself?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127584 Oct 4, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. It never controlled the Americas. It never controlled China. it never conquered the Babylonians. It was certainly a very strong *regional* power, but certainly NOT a world superpower.
<quoted text>
Actually, this happened several different times. That is generally what distinguishes one Kingdom from the Intermediate periods and the following Kingdoms.
For example, during the second intermediate period, Egypt was controlled by the Hyksos. Afterwards came the Third kingdom when Amenhotep, Ramses II, Tutankhamen, and many other famous pharaohs lived. During much of this period, the Egyptians controlled much of what is now Israel and Lebanon. Funny that the Bible never mentions this, huh?
<quoted text>
Of course, the invasion of the Sea Peoples doesn't enter into your version at all, does it? Considering that they were almost certainly associated with the Philistines, you have some historical problems on your hands if you want to interpret the Bible as being fact. Also, this same invasion was felt at Troy and is associated with the Dorian invasion of the Greeks.
There is no historical or archaeological evidence of either the plagues or the Exodus. There is plenty of evidence from all over the East Mediterranean of the invasions of the Sea Peoples. They *did* trigger a decline in the power of Egypt, but even the third Kingdom lasted well into the first millennium BC. Again, that doesn't quite agree with your Biblical stories.
Oh! Ninja'd!

Well said :)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127585 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Because it happened before the days of the local broadcast news and the New York Times. Something caused Egypt to fall from a Super Power status and that something was the Exodus.
Egypt was a society heavily dependant on slave labor. Slavery was the engine for their economy. No one can tell me that the great pyramids were built by paid Egyptian skilled labor. It was done on the backs of slaves.
You can deny that fact but it took a hell of a lot of labor. Thereís no way Egypt could have afforded to pay salaries to skilled workers. It was done by slaves, and those slaves left Egypt.
Here's a newspiece for you:

http://news.discovery.com/history/pyramids-to...

"SLAVES DIDN'T BUILD PYRAMIDS: EGYPT
The tombs of ancient Egyptian pyramid builders suggest these artisans were respected -- and paid -- for their work."

"Egypt displayed on Monday newly discovered tombs more than 4,000 years old and said they belonged to people who worked on the Great Pyramids of Giza, putting the discovery forth as more evidence that slaves did not build the ancient monuments.

The series of modest nine-foot-deep shafts held a dozen skeletons of pyramid builders, perfectly preserved by dry desert sand along with jars that once contained beer and bread meant for the workers' afterlife."

and

"Hawass told reporters at the site that the find, first announced on Sunday, sheds more light on the lifestyle and origins of the pyramid builders. Most importantly, he said the workers were not recruited from slaves commonly found across Egypt during pharaonic times.

Hawass said the builders came from poor Egyptian families from the north and the south, and were respected for their work -- so much so that those who died during construction were bestowed the honor of being buried in the tombs near the sacred pyramids of their pharaohs."

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127586 Oct 4, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I believe the general consensus is that the builders had quite a decent job, for the time. And almost definitely were not jewish slaves.
What,'cause Jewish slaves don't do a good job? What kind of racist are you?!?

I'll have you know that I have had two Jewish slaves in my life and they performed quite well!!!

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127587 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand what gravity is or how it is distributed.
You can think of the total gravitation force of the universe as circuits of relative resistance, the conductance being determined by the amount of mass and proximity of those masses to each other, or you can think of all of the masses adding up the other way to come up with the total force for the universe.
If you go strolling past Betelgeuse, you will have greater gravity force exerted on you than strolling past our sun for the same distance away. Therefore the strengths are relative. You will also have different values of those strengths pulling on you from different directions.
That was my third or fourth attempt to put it real plain, but which would not work anyhow because you view gravity as a thing, and not part of a process. However, it did help kick something into gear in my head. So you aren't totally useless.
I'm all ears, Dave! Please show us your mathematical model of gravity!

Unbelievable, I didn't know you, of all people, had actually solved the problem. I'll have to change all my views about you - shock!

So, let's see it! How'd you work it out???

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#127588 Oct 4, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> It is the minority report. The same class which stated David Dynasty did not exist and then when the archelogical evidence came along they still denied. They got Scripture down as guilty until proven innocent. You say Jesus probably existed and had some followers which is reductioninst and not in line with majority scholarship. Moses is mentioned 100s of time in the Old. Mentioned by Josephus. You say all them who were 1000s of years closer to the event were wrong in part because there is no evidence in what is now mostly a desert. The Bible is the evidence. It is agenda driven revisioninst history.
The bible is evidence of itself, it proves nothing, unless you are pointing to it and saying: "This is the bible".

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127589 Oct 4, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is mostly wrong about Egypt. Egypt's records don't corroborate it.
For one thing, the pyramids were not built by slaves, but by paid workers. Records of their rate of pay have been discovered.
This is entirely what we should predict since the OT Bible is a mythology book aimed at unifying the Jewish people.
I seem to remember academia supporting the slaves built the pyramids theory.

Israel was once part of Egypt.

Since: Sep 10

Location hidden

#127591 Oct 4, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
What is certain, even with the laws there are the lawless amongst us. Because some people donít see it as being wrong. Itís only wrong it they get caught.
So what exactly would determine which rules in the Bible should get followed and which shouldn't? I would imagine more arguing within the Christian community as to that.
The Bible may contain a couple of morals we consider absolute, but it is also chockful of other nonsense laws that we shouldn't erect upon anyone.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127592 Oct 4, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm all ears, Dave! Please show us your mathematical model of gravity!
Unbelievable, I didn't know you, of all people, had actually solved the problem. I'll have to change all my views about you - shock!
So, let's see it! How'd you work it out???
Come sit at my feet for a while. I will explain it all to you.

You seem more elevated than usual. Skipping your meds again?

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#127593 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The models keep failing. They don't last very long. They keep getting patched to maintain some semblance of continuity. Apologetics,
Quit poking holes in religion.
But you are quite free to have faith in your system. I'm just telling you it has some serious problems. Just like you do with religion.
Technology is not science theory. Simple observation and tweaking. The evolution of it has resulted in what we have today, not the theoretical science you will be claiming is responsible.
Not true. Give a better alternative or cut it out.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127594 Oct 4, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> You believe that swill you got more problems than that. Universe create self is a logical absurdity. Don't beleieve in miracles but do believe universe created self. Only on Topix. Did you create yourself?
A question for you: Do you believe prayers are answered?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#127595 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I seem to remember academia supporting the slaves built the pyramids theory.
.
Yes. But archaeologists, like other scientists, are constantly examining the evidence.

And if they find convincing evidence that demonstrates an existing theory is incorrect, they revise it accordingly.

Unlike static religious beliefs, science is always open to new discoveries.

Your age and unwillingness to keep up are showing.

You said recently that you don't read books because you're too busy living your own life.

Look at what you are missing!

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127596 Oct 4, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Not true. Give a better alternative or cut it out.
It is very true. Just read science literature for a while.

Upset when someone questions your religious beliefs?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127597 Oct 4, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
The bible is evidence of itself, it proves nothing, unless you are pointing to it and saying: "This is the bible".
That is not what majority scholarship says. That is not what the historians of old say. You can't change history just because you don't like it.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#127598 Oct 4, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
A question for you: Do you believe prayers are answered?
Yes. Not always in the way or in the time we would like.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127600 Oct 4, 2012
Regarding slaves building pyramids.

Rulers and governments have conscripted certain occupations for time immemorial to accomplish certain tasks. Certain national interests will be the reason. A guy could be an architect with a nice business, but if Pharaoh needed a bunch for a special project, he could call them up. Of course they were usually recompensed for it. But that can be called slavery.

Such is usually associated with the military, but the needs of the state can be applied to any occupation put into a national service.

In modern times they send letters. In older times they sent officials and troops to round up the talent, and probably escort them to their temporary job. Which could be a long term one.

Israel had many tradesmen and craftsmen. They could have easily been pressed into service to build pyramids. They would call it slavery.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127601 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I seem to remember academia supporting the slaves built the pyramids theory.
Israel was once part of Egypt.
Archaeology has moved away from the blanket bible-supporting it did 60 years ago, largely because archaeologists have been forced to admit the evidence doesn't support the Bible.

And now, with a younger generation, a less religious generation, Bible archaeology and Egyptology is a lot more interesting. Now they're paying attention to what the artifacts say.

Yes, Egyptians had household slaves. Sure, some of them were probably Jewish. But slaves didn't build the pyramids - those were paid workers. There're records in hieroglyphics of rates of pay, food, and beer consumption. Three years ago arky's found a recipe for beer, btw, and it contained a powerful antibiotic (similar to erythromycin). You don't give slaves beer rations, you don't worry about paying them, you don't give them nice graves.

Also, the old calculations for how many laborers involved in the pyramids were off by a factor of 5. Most recent estimates are around 20 000 men, working in the off season. It looks like the pyramids were a make-work project for out of work laborers - largely done outside of planting and harvesting season.

Think about how much skill is involved in building a pyramid. Sure, lots of grunt work is needed to move the blocks around - but if you have any familiarity with carpentry, you can see all kinds of choke points that would require skill from quarrying the stone, to placing it on the ship, adjusting it as you move it, smoothing its sides to get it to fit, and more that I can't imagine.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#127602 Oct 4, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. But archaeologists, like other scientists, are constantly examining the evidence.
And if they find convincing evidence that demonstrates an existing theory is incorrect, they revise it accordingly.
Unlike static religious beliefs, science is always open to new discoveries.
Your age and unwillingness to keep up are showing.
You said recently that you don't read books because you're too busy living your own life.
Look at what you are missing!
Read my lips. Pay attention.

You said:

"And if they find convincing evidence that demonstrates an existing theory is incorrect, they revise it accordingly."

Such happens on a continuing basis.

Logical conclusion:

THEN YOU CAN'T TAKE WHAT THEY PROCLAIM NOW AS THE "TRUTH".

Thank you for your attention.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#127603 Oct 4, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
Regarding slaves building pyramids.
Rulers and governments have conscripted certain occupations for time immemorial to accomplish certain tasks. Certain national interests will be the reason. A guy could be an architect with a nice business, but if Pharaoh needed a bunch for a special project, he could call them up. Of course they were usually recompensed for it. But that can be called slavery.
Such is usually associated with the military, but the needs of the state can be applied to any occupation put into a national service.
In modern times they send letters. In older times they sent officials and troops to round up the talent, and probably escort them to their temporary job. Which could be a long term one.
Israel had many tradesmen and craftsmen. They could have easily been pressed into service to build pyramids. They would call it slavery.
Dave...shocking as this may sound, archaeology relies on evidence based methodologies, not pure speculation by "armchair fantasizers."

Science has shown, again and again, that personal introspection does not produce facts. You're stuck in this mode and, for reasons of insecurity, dislike the people who actually use methodologies to produce knowledge.

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