Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
rider

Ishpeming, MI

#125494 Sep 25, 2012
New York's Terrorism Task Force Predicted Terrorists Crashing Planes Into the World Trade Center Before 9/11
http://www.911blogger.com/news/2012-07-21/new ...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125496 Sep 25, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
If everybody in the room believes 1+1=3 and you believe 1+1=2 then you should be able to reasonably correct everybody.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
No. Those that believe that 1+1=3 on faith cannot be corrected with reason. You believe 3=1 don't you?
lightbeamrider wrote:
You explained that earlier and i complemented your post. Remember?
Sorry, no. What was the context? Do you recall the post number?

Note that I was disagreeing with you there, so I assume that you disagree with me as well, although your comment above suggests otherwise. Can you clarify? Why would you complement an idea that contradicts yours?
lightbeamrider wrote:
1+1=2 is a conceptual reality which does not depend on the human mind as is logical absolutes. It was not invented by man as polymath has stated.
I don't know. I've never resolved that issue. In case you are unaware, you are what is called a platonist - somebody who considers abstractions as real or more real than the material world:

"Platonism is the view that there exist such things as abstract objects — where an abstract object is an object that does not exist in space or time and which is therefore entirely non-physical and non-mental." http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/platonism/

"Platonism - The philosophy of Plato, especially insofar as it asserts ideal forms as an absolute and eternal reality of which the phenomena of the world are an imperfect and transitory reflection." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Platonism

This is a difficult subject. Certainly the typography of mathematics is a human convention. I see merit in two conflicting opinions here.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125498 Sep 25, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Both theism and atheism cannot be true at the same time in the same place. If A is true then T is false and vice versa. You do agree that is a logical absolute?
I accept the Law of Noncontradiction, which "states that contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time, e.g. the two propositions "A is B" and "A is not B" are mutually exclusive." - Wiki

And I accept that everybody is either an atheist or a theist, and that nobody is both or neither, but I use a definition of atheist that many Christians resist. "Atheist" is the complement of "theist," not its antithesis. Do you understand the difference?

I don't like your use of the word atheism, however. Atheism can't be true or false. It's a statement of nonacceptance of all theistic claims. When I tell you that I won't accept your god argument without evidence, it's like telling you that I don't accept your alibi without evidence. It can't be wrong, because it's not a positive statement that you are wrong - just that I'm not convinced.

I wish a few of you would acknowledge that we define ourselves differently than you do. I call myself an agnostic atheist. You call that an agnostic, and not an atheist.

But I'll stipulate to the idea that there either is or is not an intelligent designer that created our universe.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125499 Sep 25, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
Now if there are only two possibilities to explain something; Atheism and Theism and one of the possibilites is incapable then the other is validated by default. 1) Do you affirm logical absolutes? 2)Do you agree logical absolutes exist independent of the human mind? How does atheism explain the existence of logical and math absolutes in a random universe which came about absent intelligence?
You see that is why it takes more faith to be an atheist!
No, I don't follow that. And as I alluded earlier, I don't know what to say about the ontological status of logical and mathematical concepts.

I don't know what the ontological status of space and time are. Kant had one idea, Einstein another.
lightbeamrider

Fargo, ND

#125500 Sep 25, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"This is NOT random!!"
Amusing. This is what the Creationists have been saying all along.
Welcome to the fold.
The virtual reality produced by computer programming is proof that something created this paradigm. You have a basic power source, producing a bipolarity, which then is programmed to follow rules. If the virtual creature is given the ability to "physically" investigate and deduce, it will just break this down to that bipolarity of that power source, creating "particles". It will have a hard time imagining just what that power source is really comprised of.
Man can create "realities" living in their own little worlds. Logic dictates the same may have been done to man.
Thank you Dave!
rider

Ishpeming, MI

#125501 Sep 25, 2012
SourceWatch has Revised the History of the CIA's Operation Mockingbird http://www.whale.to/b/monday8.html Mark Dice explains Operation Mockingbird (1 of 4) On The Alex ...

&#9658; 9:28&#9658; 9:28 www.youtube.com/watch...
Feb 13, 2009 - 9 min - Uploaded by TheResistanceChannel
Buy The Illuminati: Facts & Fiction from Amazon.com Also available: The Resistance Manifesto by Mark Dice

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#125502 Sep 25, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Yer not the boss of me!
I'll post what I please.
Could you please not post those nude pics of me?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125503 Sep 25, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
"This is NOT random!!"

Amusing. This is what the Creationists have been saying all along.
Welcome to the fold.
Not the ones I encounter. Here's a recent example; http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q... Here he is again making the same comment, and me just cutting-and-pasting my earlier comment to him again: http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
Dave Nelson wrote:
The virtual reality produced by computer programming is proof that something created this paradigm. You have a basic power source, producing a bipolarity, which then is programmed to follow rules. If the virtual creature is given the ability to "physically" investigate and deduce, it will just break this down to that bipolarity of that power source, creating "particles". It will have a hard time imagining just what that power source is really comprised of. Man can create "realities" living in their own little worlds. Logic dictates the same may have been done to man.
Maybe, depending on what that meant, Captain Moonbeam.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#125504 Sep 25, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
That is only one possibility, even if there is no intelligent actor.
<quoted text>
Provide evidence for an intelligent creator. Simple non-randomness is not sufficient. Give evidence that distinguishes between a universe with physical laws and no creator, and one with physical laws *with* a creator. What is one observable difference between the two scenarios?
The observable universe science claims to see has two universal forces. Gravity and EM, EM defined as not the strict term relating to atomic binding, but as bipolarity, and as the skin about the components that give the appearance of solidity. Those forces are the strings and push sticks that move things about.

Study electrical circuitry. Reduce the idea of current to simple eater bipolarity. Push and pull. Caused by stress, such as displacement of volume within the "greater mass". Even you are too well ordered to be a random result of matter and forces at work. You are a designed component. Maybe not individually created, but a derivative of an original. You have become a focus of energy, which affects other energy you interact with, and produces your own reality within the parameters of your programming.

As a derivative, you are on your own. You can burn like a candle and extinguish, or you can prepare for a more coherent existence using your imagination and desires.

There may not be a "Creator" watching over you individually, but there was one that enabled you to manifest.

You have many, many thousands of years of human experience with the supernatural and paranormal. It is a huge empirical database of what you consider anecdotal data. But it is very much there. It is your head creating your own "reality" and the rules that govern it.

You don't "exist" for no good "reason". Believing it is all order out of original chaos is a huge leap of faith. If it was not original chaos, then it was by design.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125505 Sep 25, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! He shall not be put to shame when he speaks with his enemies in the gate.(Psalms 127:3-5 ESV)
This could have been written about cattle or slaves. It's a cblessing having a bunch of them, too.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
And when Esau lifted up his eyes and saw the women and children, he said,“Who are these with you?” Jacob said,“The children whom God has graciously given your servant.”(Genesis 33:5 ESV)
Ditto.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
He gives the barren woman a home, making her the joyous mother of children. Praise the LORD!
(Psalms 113:9 Holy Bible ESV)
Ditto. Farmers also feel blessed when heffers calve.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Out of the mouth of babes and infants, you have established strength because of your foes, to still the enemy and the avenger.(Psalms 8:2 ESV)
Do you see this as good for children?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125506 Sep 25, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
“Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.” And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.(Mark 10:13-16 ESV)
This one isn't about children
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.
(Proverbs 22:6 ESV)
Is there a point to all of this? You people don't seem to understand what a child is, or how to view one.
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.
(Proverbs 22:15 ESV)
This looks like one I posted
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Discipline your son, and he will give you rest; he will give delight to your heart.
(Proverbs 29:17 ESV)
Do you ever do anything for the child, or is it all about how they magnify and serve their father?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
...Or if you'd prefer, you can teach the kids the "blessins" of your NAMBLA.....
I'll leave that to your priests.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#125507 Sep 25, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Not the ones I encounter. Here's a recent example; http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q... Here he is again making the same comment, and me just cutting-and-pasting my earlier comment to him again: http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
<quoted text>
Maybe, depending on what that meant, Captain Moonbeam.
Your emotional disturbances that have interfered with your rational thinking have caused you to ignore the huge amount of gray that exists between that little space your mind occupies and the rest of the universe. You can only see in black and white.

Would you please stop trying to make your mental problems, and the resultant world view, the model for rational people?

Thank you very much.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125509 Sep 25, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>I see you still have that problem with repeating yourself like you think it's clever. That's like the 100th time you've posted the personality quote at me and still haven't cited it's author.
I think I wrote that, but I don't remember clearly, so I am not claiming credit yet. I have looked for this gag on the Internet in various forms, and found none. If nothing turns up soon, I will call it mine. If I am wrong, someday, I may be shown that that is the case. I am trying to void inadvertent plagiarism.

I don't know why you're so unappreciative. Some of my best stuff was dedicated to you and you alone:

[1]“Big talk from the bronchitic, emphysematous, and unloved crone who applies her makeup with a putty knife to cover up the scars, craters and festering boils … looking like the Joker.”

[2]“You pull down your crusty sweatpants and fully saturated Depends, and flash them a glimpse of louse nirvana. They run like hell, don't they, screaming, retching and vomiting, with you running after them across the desert, hacking up lung butter and sobbing with your sweats around your ankles.”

[3]“Sheila [nanoanomaly’s former sock] is my favorite abortion survivor. The fetus didn't make it, but clearly, the afterbirth did.”

[4]“Beware of Nanoanomaly. As her name suggests, she's a little weird.“

[5]“Her skirts are so short, you don't need to look for her Adam's apple. You can see her prostate.”

[6] "It doesn't seem right that some people have multiple personalities when there are so many that didn't get even the one."

[7]“Your muffin is generating flurries of lice, yeast and dandruff that are accumulating into drifts on your shoe tops.”

This was all written when I thought that you enjoyed the abuse. I gave you some of my best. Now, I don't care enough any more, so, I save my best material for others. And since these quips are no longer intended for your masochistic pleasure, but for the amusement of others, it makes no sense to write new jokes, but to rerun the old jokes.

I have written a LOT of comedy over the years, but I can't share most of it without revealing my identity.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#125511 Sep 25, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Lovey dove, you have outdone yourself for hypocrisy with that post.
Execution on religious grounds is against the law in those places, unless done by the authorities where it IS against the law.
Those murders would have happened anyhow. Was just an excuse, part of a larger power struggle.
It is extremely interesting how you are so vicious in attacking Christianity, in attempts to raise the rabble against it, yet are so sympathetic to Muslim fanatics. This Christian "intolerance" you like to allege pretty much happened in the past. This Muslim "indignation" and "intolerance" is happening today.
Honey, you don’t know what you are talking about. In some countries it is considered an honour to god to kill a blasphemer. Please explain what a Fatwa is?

Please provide proof that those murders would have happened without the film, you make the accusation so prove it.

In this case what makes you think I am attacking christianity, I am stating my mind on a sick trouble maker who abused his right to free speech by deliberately creating a hate film that incited murder. Is he christian?

Honey, I have been physically and mentally hurt by christians, I have never been hurt or abused by Moslims. My children have been put in danger of death by chistians, never by Muslims. My disability has been attacked by christians (you included) never by Muslims. I give respect where respect is due.

If you had cared to read my post I also slated the murderers but that was not really the subject under discussion

Yes it happens on both sides of the divide and has done for a thousand years. I have recently discovered that one of my ancestors fought alongside Richard Cœur de Lion in the 3rd crusade and I can guarantee it is still happening now,(I have been subjected to the christian version of it).

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#125512 Sep 25, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
"The American boy scouts burn more US flags than any other group." WHAT?!? Oh my, my, my..... You are quite delusional...
Why do you hate Americans? Why do you hate Christians?
Why are you so ignorant?

The group that burns the most US flags

http://www.omg-facts.com/History/The-group-th...

I don’t hate Americans and I have told you repeatedly why I dislike some christians what is to f*cking hard for you to understand. Is it a mental block, is it some disease, heavy metal poisoning or something?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125513 Sep 25, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Why do you hate Americans? Why do you hate Christians?
Hate is such an unpleasant word. I don’t hate Christians. I just don't know that they should be considered as citizens. Nor should they be considered as patriots. But I wouldn't want them stoned to death or burned at the stake.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#125514 Sep 25, 2012
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>The man is talking sh!t when he suggests that he knows how to determine odds of anything. I simply pointed out his fantasy from another thread. He didn't know then and he doesn't know now. Why do you bow to a loser?
Ahh, I see you have bottled out and changed you avatar picture once I reminded you of the possibilities of copyright infringement.

See. I can do you some good after all.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#125515 Sep 25, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
He is a fantastic writer and also an obviously very smart man. Not to mention the free medical advice he gives me from time to time.

OK. I already knew I should smoke and drink less. But, hey, my regular doc charges me a $15 co-pay to tell me the same thing.
Now ease up.
LOL. Thanks.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#125516 Sep 25, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>That is only one possibility, even if there is no intelligent actor.

[QUOTE]It is something you can not discount as gratuitously as some try to do. You cans step back and remove the assumption of original source and its means of doing such while doing your back engineering, which is something countless theist and deist scientists have done for a while,
You don't keep the rational middle ground by flat out denying that which you don't know.
"

Provide evidence for an intelligent creator. Simple non-randomness is not sufficient. Give evidence that distinguishes between a universe with physical laws and no creator, and one with physical laws *with* a creator. What is one observable difference between the two scenarios?
It took intelligence to design an efficient eating/breathing system.

Look at all the tubing saved.

And the only drawback is that you might choke to death while eating.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#125518 Sep 25, 2012
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>26Sep12.....
.....Wrong.
Its funny that you say Muslims (not Moslims) do not give a fig what is being said in the West when they fervently 'shout' that they give the 'Same' praise and protection of the name of ALL the prophets in addition to mohammed.
Where were these Muslims when the plasphemers in PussyRiot invaded a Christian cathedral!!!
You need to have more conversations with your Muslim employees (Not) and ask dem about all their suicide bombings and why they don't allow their females to get an education and how come Mohammed had so many, many wives...most below the age of 13.
As for the Islamic faith growing, you have a point there. That's why so many tens of thousands of Brits (who can afford it) have left the UK for better climes in France, Germany, The Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, the US of A, and elsewhere.
Guess you will have to putUP with the 'bleeting' of da call to prayer at the local mosque at 3:30am each morning forever.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
What is so funny? Look it up DFB

They were probably in the local mosque, why would they be in a christian church?

Now you are talking funntmentalist here, not Muslim. The majority of Muslims are peace abiding people just like the majority of chistians.

How come incest is not illegal in America.

Actually that’s not generally the reason people leave the UK. It is mostly to do with the atrocious weather here, high tax and better standard of living elsewhere. Why would people leave on a hate whim to go to a country with an equal or higher population than the UK? Get some brain pills and think it thought.

No but I have to put up with your bleating if I want some fun on topix

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