Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#123801 Sep 19, 2012
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
There are references in the bible stating just that:
.....
Please provide them.

I'll wait.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#123802 Sep 19, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Here's a wiki article on deities with virgin births:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_birth...
That is the one!
Here's a list of deities with virgin births who predate Jesus:
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-lik...
And here is a response.

http://www.tektonics.org/copycathub.html
Eye Heart Jesus

Hamilton, Canada

#123803 Sep 19, 2012
Like lightbeamwriter said,

The Abraham account was also used to foreshadow the role that Christ would play in his future coming.
It foreshadows the fact that God sent Jesus to be our final and eternal sacrifice for out sins. He took out place, and Abraham's faith in God is what granted Him redemption. He spared his sons life and provided him with a lamb in his place. His faith is what saved him. This serves as a lesson Of faith.
The bible is rich with 'types' Of events used to foreshadow a prophesy.
If u read the bible as a whole and in its's proper
context u will begin to appreciate its' unique style
of revelation throughout the old testament all
through the new testament.
Eye Heart Jesus

Hamilton, Canada

#123804 Sep 19, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
There is not a single eyewitness in the NT. The earliest Christian documents are the genuine letters of Paul, a man who never met Jesus in this life and claims only to have met him on a trip to heaven.
Good luck with that claim.
The gospels were all written in the 2nd half of the first century and not by eyewitnesses.
Many of the remaining tests are specious at best.
(Don't make me have to pull out my list of
believers admitting 2 Peter is a forgery).
You got nothing but fiction and forgeries.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
6QSQR05J7FAJ3/post1297
If u put half of your effort into actually looking into the data available to support Christ, rather than to blatantly refute it, you'd be amazed at what you would find.
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John namely are 4 of the 27 compilations that make up the NT.
How can u claaim they were all written by one man, and forged? Is it perhaps because you have an underlying interest squelching the evidence?
Let's not forget all the original bible manuscripts that Have been found and continue to be found.
Why do u not consider this to add even a slight possibility to the chance that Jesus and the Bible could be true?

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#123805 Sep 19, 2012
Chess Jurist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide them.
I'll wait.
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
Like lightbeamwriter said,
The Abraham account was also used to foreshadow the role that Christ would play in his future coming.
....
I'm still waiting.

When you admit you have no source for your claim that these young boys and old women, who were slaughtered in captivity om Moses' orders, and the young virgin girls, who were divvied up among the men of Israel on BibleGod's orders, tortured or scarified any kids, as BibleGod ordered Abraham to do, then we can move on to your false claims of prophesy.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#123806 Sep 19, 2012
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
....
How can u claaim they were all written by one man, and forged?....
You know, when you lie about what I posted, you defeat your arguments right out of the gate.
Atheist Silurist

Gloucester, UK

#123807 Sep 19, 2012
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
Like lightbeamwriter said,
The Abraham account was also used to foreshadow the role that Christ would play in his future coming.
It foreshadows the fact that God sent Jesus to be our final and eternal sacrifice for out sins. He took out place, and Abraham's faith in God is what granted Him redemption. He spared his sons life and provided him with a lamb in his place. His faith is what saved him. This serves as a lesson Of faith.
The bible is rich with 'types' Of events used to foreshadow a prophesy.
If u read the bible as a whole and in its's proper
context u will begin to appreciate its' unique style
of revelation throughout the old testament all
through the new testament.
Year, but that's just a load of old bollocks,isn't it?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#123808 Sep 19, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
And why should I accept this?
You don't have to.
And this somehow demonstrates the account is not a fabrication?
The Epistle of James? Most give ancient texts the benefit of the doubt.
When Inuit were told of the miracle of the virgin birth, they pulled the Priest aside and said "Father...you know that Mary was cheating, right?" And they laughed and laughed.
In that culture cheating as you call it was not very good for the female to say the least.
Again we find that people outside of a particular religion can see through the logic used by that religion.
It's not complicated. It is based on one event. Resurrection. Most believe Jesus existed. The experts believe Jesus was baptised by John and was killed via Pilate. Up to this point you have a wide range of acceptance amoung historians for that time period.
Oh, ok. The resurrection didn't happen. Yup, I'm a nonbeliever.
Again, lots of resurrection stories in other mythologies. Not all of them require that as key, though, but have other centrally important miracles that you would reject.
So...why should anyone accept your religion and not any other religion?
I read a few books on the subject and they were convincing. Personally i rejected Christianity on account of the celibate thing. No drinking or drugs. I just did not think i could do it. In later years there was a heavy price to pay for all my chasing around.
Can you think of a reason that uses logic not trapped within your belief system?
If things like truth and God is important then people will look into it all when the time comes. I don't quite understand your question. All you need to know is historical Christianity is either true or false based on the resurrection of Christ. There is no in between.
rider

Ishpeming, MI

#123809 Sep 19, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
RiversideRedneck wrote:
So then you believe there is a god?
<quoted text>
So then you believe there is no god(s).
Either you believe there is a god or you don't. You seem to be afraid to admit that you don't believe that a god exists....
god is a f--king loser,

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#123810 Sep 19, 2012
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
Until it happens to u or someone close to u who u trust.
my family are atheists and so are most of my friends

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#123811 Sep 19, 2012
rider wrote:
<quoted text>god is a f--king loser,
You're OK! You can ask god to forgive you for that blatant blasphemy! Thank god you didn't curse the holy ghost!

Even though they are 3 in 1, you can say,'god is a f--king loser', but you cannot say,'the holy ghost is a f--king loser'; which is to say,'god is a f--king loser'!

You know, cause they are one! The three of them are really one!

No! I swear to god! The three are one! But you cannot blaspheme the holy spook! You can blaspheme the father and the son all you wish, but you cannot blaspheme the holy spirit!

Stop laughing! It is true! There are one god!

What do you mean,'How can you blaspheme one, without blaspheming the other two, if they are just one?' You just can't! They are three distinct 'personalities', for the lack of a better word, but they are still one!

It's like water; it can be a liquid, a solid, and a gas.

No, not all at the same time!

Yes, but the three gods can be one at the same time!

OK, so it is not exactly like water. I was just speaking metaphorically, or figuratively, or something like that.

You infidel! I mean, heathen! Just shut up! You're going to Hell, anyways.

No, I am not judging you! You took that out of context!

No, god is judging you; read the bible!

No, not that part!

No, not that part!

No, not that part!

No, not that part!

No, not that part!

There, that one sentence there!

No, not the entire verse, just that part of it!

No, you see? I can tell you that you are going to Hell, before judgment day, because of that sentence there.

Shut the bible! Don't worry about the rest of it; you wouldn't understand it.

Cause god closed your mind to understanding.

What?

Oh, so did the devil. You got the double whammy!

How do you become a christian if you can't understand the bible? Oh, that's easy! You listen to people like me!

Stop laughing!!

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#123812 Sep 19, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> That is the one!
<quoted text> And here is a response.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycathub.html
That doesn't actually address many of the deities I listed. Also...it's quite clearly an apologist site with a freaky-poor web design.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#123813 Sep 19, 2012
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
Like lightbeamwriter said,
The Abraham account was also used to foreshadow the role that Christ would play in his future coming.
It foreshadows the fact that God sent Jesus to be our final and eternal sacrifice for out sins. He took out place, and Abraham's faith in God is what granted Him redemption. He spared his sons life and provided him with a lamb in his place. His faith is what saved him. This serves as a lesson Of faith.
The bible is rich with 'types' Of events used to foreshadow a prophesy.
If u read the bible as a whole and in its's proper
context u will begin to appreciate its' unique style
of revelation throughout the old testament all
through the new testament.
The NT writers just stole it from the OT writers and adjusted their Jesus story to fit.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#123814 Sep 19, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> That is the one!
<quoted text> And here is a response.
http://www.tektonics.org/copycathub.html
from Glenn Miller's Christian Thinktank. LOL! "Christian Thinktank" ROTFLMAO!

Oh, I do believe that there is a christian Thinktank! They have to reinvent the religion to deal with science, history, life! LOL! Can't keep the money and the power without a good christian Thinktank!

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#123815 Sep 19, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
You don't have to.
Ah, sweet, well that works then.
The Epistle of James? Most give ancient texts the benefit of the doubt.
No scholarly work argues that the miracles Jesus performs in the Christian mythology are real. They might accept some of the historical notes, but none of the miracles.
In that culture cheating as you call it was not very good for the female to say the least.
I don't agree with you. We'd have to ask an Inuit woman from 400 years ago or so.
It's not complicated. It is based on one event. Resurrection. Most believe Jesus existed. The experts believe Jesus was baptised by John and was killed via Pilate. Up to this point you have a wide range of acceptance amoung historians for that time period.
I don't really have any problems with him existing, although I've read some historians who question that. I'm pretty sure that Jesus, the man, existed - and, assuming he did, he was the single most charismatic person ever.
I read a few books on the subject and they were convincing. Personally i rejected Christianity on account of the celibate thing. No drinking or drugs. I just did not think i could do it. In later years there was a heavy price to pay for all my chasing around.
So...you're not a Christian?

Only Paul says "be celibate" right? And he's a misogynist.
If things like truth and God is important then people will look into it all when the time comes.
Truth and God don't go together in my opinion.

All religions are imagined realities. Yes, you experience them as real. Yes, your brain processes information from the outside world as if your religion was real. It's real for you. All believers in all religions experience their religion as real.

Before you say it, all human-lived realities are imagined realities. So mine is, too.
I don't quite understand your question. All you need to know is historical Christianity is either true or false based on the resurrection of Christ. There is no in between.
No kidding. The resurrection did not happen. Romans existed, though, and the crucified people. Most of the peoples (not people) in the Bible existed - Jews, Egyptians, etc. There are historical points of accuracy in there mixed in with a lot of (fictional) mythology.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

#123816 Sep 20, 2012
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>
then im not understanding the original arguement. you say that there is no God, yet you claim that the moral actions of humans are evil, and if God did the same, he would be doing evil.
Anyone who would kill millions of people for no reason (hell or any reason) is evil.
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>
the problem is that all that youve said are assurtions.
Where did I assurt what?
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>
the part about hell and damnation is a strawman.
Why? Do you believe in Hell and damnation when you displease your deity?
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>
im not talking about punishment, im talking about the nature of morality and evil.
Killing inncocents.
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>
if ive misunderstood, then i apologize. it could be that both our positions were not well defined.
Well defined? I simply have no imaginary friends

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#123817 Sep 20, 2012
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
You were not addressing me, but I responded to you ( you were responding to someone else) and u mentioned something along the lines of 'it'll be too bad when your whole life comes crashing down because of a test tube'... I believe it was in reference to abiogenesis?
As for 'God-theory'... I'm merely describing your position. You do not believe in God, correct? So it is appropriate for me to dustinguish my belief as a 'theory' to u. I didnt think this needed further clarification, but I can see that it does.
As for 'abomination'.... That was my choice of words. Forgive my dramaticism.... Again, you mentioned from a Chrisians perspective, how fearful it must be to find a cute girl in the corner attractive. I just paraphrased what you said- apparently, you have trouble with people using different terms or words to express the same idea. I didn't mean to crush your eggshells.
This pure BS you tried to attribute words to me I did not say, else you would not have put them in inverted commas.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#123818 Sep 20, 2012
One there is no proof Jesus ever existed not a single contemporary writer wrote a single word about him. Josephus was decades after Jesus and we now know the Jesus passage in his book was a Christian forgery.
Two Jesus if he did exist failed miserably to fulfill a single important messianic prophecy. What's the best you got? He rode into town on a stolen jackass? Lmfao!!
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to disagree (if u r referring to Christianity... Sorry if I'm wrong).
Christianity stands apart from other religions or schools of thought because it uniquely provides us with a Biblical revelation of how we all originated, what God's plan was and is for His creation, and claims Jesus as deity. What is unique about the bible and Jesus, is that it is rich with prophetic compilations that support one another over very long periods of time. The Bible is also archeologically supported as well as historically supported. That brings me to Jesus. He was not only prophesied about in great detail, but over 400 prophesies about Him that were made hundreds of years before came true. These weren't random prophesies that just anybody could fulfill. He was born of a virgin, in David's lineage, in Bethlehem, peoduced numerous miracles in public, was put to death in
a cross, rose again after three days, and is supported by over 500 eye witness contemporaries who shared their accounts OUTSIDE of biblical records, i.e Josephus, an infamous Jewish historian of that time.
No other religion has made or could make such claims.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#123819 Sep 20, 2012
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
There's one major thing your science always leaves out.
They say that life started from somehing like amino acids (or something), but they always leave out how the first lifeforce started. They can't tell us where or how life actually begins. They don't even know how a human baby has a conscience. They can't duplicate it.
That is why we do research.

Since: Mar 11

United States

#123820 Sep 20, 2012
Wrong everything you said here was done thousands of years prior to Jesus by Horus who was sacrificed by crucifixion no less for the sins of his followers. He also rose from the dead three days later and promised his followers salvation if they only believed in him. He was the savior of mankind and their way to heaven. He then ascended into heaven after telling this message to thousands on the bank of the Nile river. Oh ya he was also born on December 25th to a virgin. Performed miracles. Healed the blind and sick. Raised a man named Lazarus from the grave. Was baptized by a prophet who was later betrayed and beheaded. Had 12 apostles. Walked on water shall I go on?

Yes Horus the savior and messiah to all mankind centuries before genesis was penned :)
Eye Heart Jesus wrote:
Also, Jesus is the ONLY deity to cares and loves His creation enough to willingly offer Himself as
a sacrifice for our sins, offering us forgiveness and provides us with a way to have a relationship with Him through accepting Him through faith:))
It is also unique in that Christianity is not based on works to 'appease' God, but on faith:)
Faith on Jesus provides us with not only forgiveness and a clean slate, but also the longing to be like Him in what He taught, a change of heart that causes us to WANT to do good out of LOVE, not forcefully like robots as many of u claim.
God wants to commune with us and wants us to seek Him. He doesn't want us to do works just to appease Him. That is worthless to Him.
He has given us free will so that we aren't FORCED to make the right choice- but by accepting Him we are willingly doing what is right. He also provided us with the Holu Spirit that dwells within us when we accept Him, which is God Himself; He intercesses for us and guides us to make the right choices:))
This is unique from what any other religion has to offer:)

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