Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#121325 Sep 10, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
In dreams, OOBEs, and altered states of consciousness, the sense of self breaks the bonds of gravity and matter.
No, in fact, they do not. They are all states of the brain. OOBEs are particularly devastating brain states, but there is no evidence they represent actual out of body experiences: for example nobody who has had an OOBE has been able to describe hidden symbols in a double blind study.
Form is there, but no gravity or solid barriers.
Technically, this is a type of hallucination.
If mind and self are directly tied to the physics of this universe, creations of the physical forces, how can such be done? Wouldn't those forces have to be felt and incorporated into the mind doing those things? The mind can also shut off the body, or parts of it. How does the brain know how to switch them off if it is so hardwired?
The brain has a tremendous amount of influence on the workings of the body through both the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous systems. It is also vitally connected to immune functioning. Go learn some biology.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#121326 Sep 10, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Duh, Evolution is a theory based on speculation.
And great amounts of evidence.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#121327 Sep 10, 2012
Igor Trip wrote:
<quoted text>
If they were perfect then why did they disobey God?
Why within just a few years did one of their sons commit murder?
Why were their descendants such an awful bunch that God decided to kill all but one family?
Judging by the erratic and highly emotional words and actions of the Bibles God it was because he made man in his own image.
Why did they disobey?

Very good question, Eve was the first to be deceived. She failed to believe and that was the first sin that mankind ever committed. I guess you could say she had an atheist moment. Adam knew what he was doing and followed Eve.

Yes they were perfect in body but unbelief caused their fall. That is something you have in common with them. You fail to believe. Iím not saying that to be mean. The first people living had their own will, just like yourself. They could obey or choose to disobey.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#121328 Sep 10, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
I am stellar shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =Qdb4NyHdFfEXX
BTW, since when does Topix have a problem with the word shit? This must be a new development, because I've never hit the offensive material filter no matter how many times I say shit. Shit.
I think they got a new robocensor.

I got red-flagged twice in the last coupla days - once for _"Casus Belli"_ and once for I dunno what.

I never get red-flagged.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#121329 Sep 10, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
And great amounts of evidence.
Thatís whatís claimed however I think itís a bunch of hot air.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#121331 Sep 10, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are so full of shit, in addition to ...
<click>

You've been drinking again. Sober up and try again.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#121332 Sep 10, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
For many situations we do not know the details, but we are learning. yes, you *can* see the brain states that represent thoughts using various imaging techniques. We *can* now read minds (in a primitive way, but getting better) using these scans.
<quoted text>
Sorry, but I am not a neuro-scientist. If you want detailed circuitry, ask one. We *do* have details for many of the circuits in the brain and what they do. Some are still to be elucidated, but that is proceeding nicely.
The point is that thoughts *are* processes in the brain. They are physical processes (not nouns as much as verbs).
So, you have great faith that the answer to such ethereal thingies can be explained by science eventually, even if they can't now?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#121333 Sep 10, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thatís whatís claimed however I think itís a bunch of hot air.
Fossilized bones are mineral not gas.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#121334 Sep 10, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Like the bible? Starts with a talking snake that outwits a perfect man and woman an goes downhill after that.
<quoted text>
Go shave under those arms. You donít think people canít see that.

Have you ever heard of sasquatch?

Having birds nest under both arms is nasty dude.

Do you have head lice? Your nasty dude.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#121335 Sep 10, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
Atheism requires considerably more faith.
Theism just requires a Creator ... Science just sees how it was put together.
Then I guess that we're better at faith than you are, too. Obviously, atheism isn't for everybody.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#121336 Sep 10, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, in fact, they do not. They are all states of the brain. OOBEs are particularly devastating brain states, but there is no evidence they represent actual out of body experiences: for example nobody who has had an OOBE has been able to describe hidden symbols in a double blind study.
<quoted text>
Technically, this is a type of hallucination.
<quoted text>
The brain has a tremendous amount of influence on the workings of the body through both the sympathetic and the parasympathetic nervous systems. It is also vitally connected to immune functioning. Go learn some biology.
Amusing. Hidden symbols in a double blind study.

OOBEs are rather notorious for not being done on command. That is more of a hypnotic effect if one claims to do such things, not a true separation.

Now, as one that has undergone an unexpected one, I will give you more reasons for that not exactly being a really good experiment to prove or disprove.

When you find yourself in such a state you are really not concerned looking for hidden symbols some idiot scientist expects you to look for. You could really fucking care less. There are much more important issues occupying your mind.

Another is your conscious memory is made of info stored in the meat. A computer doesn't remember a damned thing when it powers down unless it is written to physical memory. Similar happens when your mind separates from the physical. You very quickly lose memories of where you were. You can easily lose a train of thought between the leaving and returning. It's a physical thing. However, you can return with some thought more on the intuitive side than the normal physical logical block created by learning and organizing.

Piss poor experiment and proof. Can you come up with something with more meat to it?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#121337 Sep 10, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then I guess that we're better at faith than you are, too. Obviously, atheism isn't for everybody.
Dung beetles are also appreciative of such diversity. Makes for a better life for them.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#121338 Sep 10, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
Isn't it amazing how physical reality can collect and evaluate information?
Or that a nebula can condense, wake up, and wonder about itself.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#121339 Sep 10, 2012
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>lolerbat...
It's funny when you get crotchety and grumpy.
Dave's a mean drunk.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#121340 Sep 10, 2012
scaritual wrote:
Take your vitamins, Dave, follow the advice of your Doctors, and maybe you can stave off this inexorable march towards managed and assisted care a while longer.
Dementia: Dave's not here.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#121341 Sep 10, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
He believes we came from "dust". I very much prefer star stuff.
We are golden. We are billion year old carbon.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#121342 Sep 10, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your idea would probably be in as much error as the rest of your thinking. I've already posted it some time back.
But give it your best shot.
Alexander Pope I said.

You stole his words.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#121343 Sep 10, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you have great faith that the answer to such ethereal thingies can be explained by science eventually, even if they can't now?
I would say that the track record of science (especially when compared to that of religion) induces a certain amount of confidence. Is it *certain*? Of course not. But if there is a way to know, then that way is science-based.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#121344 Sep 10, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ding, ding, ding, ladies and gentleman we have a new record.
Why plural for ladies and singular for gentleman?

I told you that you should seek advice from Dave on the proper use of the singular and plural, Mr. S.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#121345 Sep 10, 2012
Dave Nelson wrote:
Piss poor experiment and proof. Can you come up with something with more meat to it?
it seems to me that *you* are the one that needs to come up with more 'meat'. OOBEs and other mental phenomena are clearly NOT enough to supprt the existence of a supernatural.

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