Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“The eye has it...”

Since: Jan 12

Russell's teapot.

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#102451
May 24, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Bubba, go back to banging on steel. This water is over your head.
According to the biblical myth, it was over the mountains, too.

LXT LXX Greek Septuagint
evpeka, luyen verb indicative aorist active 3rd person singular from evpikalu,ptw
[GING] evpikalu,ptw
evpikalu, ptw - cover Ro 4:7.*[pg 74]

New American Standard
<03680> hs'K'(kasah)(491b)
Meaning: to cover
Origin: a prim. root
Usage: closed(2), clothed(1), conceal(1), conceals(7), cover(52), covered(49), covering(4), covers(21), engulfed(3), forgive(m)(1), hidden(1), hide(2), keep(m)(1), made a covering(1), overwhelm(m)(2), overwhelmed(m)(2), take refuge(1

King James Version
3680 hs'K' kacah {kaw-saw'}
Meaning: 1) to cover, conceal, hide 1a)(Qal) conceal, covered (participle) 1b)(Niphal) to be covered 1c)(Piel) 1c1) to cover, clothe 1c2) to cover, conceal 1c3) to cover (for protection) 1c4) to cover over, spread over 1c5) to cover, overwhelm 1d)(Pual) 1d1) to be covered 1d2) to be clothed 1e)(Hithpael) to cover oneself, clothe oneself
Origin: a primitive root; TWOT - 1008; v
Usage: AV - cover 135, hide 6, conceal 4, covering 2, overwhelmed 2, clad 1, closed 1, clothed 1; 152

WTT(Leningrad Hebrew Old Testament)
pual: pf. WSK'; impf. hS,kuy>, WSkuy>w:; pt.~ySikum., tASkum.: be covered: mountains (w. water) Gn 719f; covering in acc. Ps 8011; w. bŪ Ec 64.

CJT (Complete Jewish Bible)
3680 hs'K' kacah {kaw-saw'}
Meaning: 1) to cover, conceal, hide 1a)(Qal) conceal, covered (participle) 1b)(Niphal) to be covered 1c)(Piel) 1c1) to cover, clothe 1c2) to cover, conceal 1c3) to cover (for protection) 1c4) to cover over, spread over 1c5) to cover, overwhelm 1d)(Pual) 1d1) to be covered 1d2) to be clothed 1e)(Hithpael) to cover oneself, clothe oneself
Origin: a primitive root; TWOT - 1008; v
Usage: AV - cover 135, hide 6, conceal 4, covering 2, overwhelmed 2, clad 1, closed 1, clothed 1; 152

TAR (Targum Aramaic)
ypx verb hithpeel
CAL Lexicon: ypx verb
peal
    1 Qumran,Palestinian,CPA,Sam,Syr ,JBA to cover
    2 Syr to prostrate oneself
pael
    1 Syr to cover
    2 Syr to hide
    3 Syr l[; to spare
    4 Syr to blind
    5 Syr to conquer
    6 JLATg to overlay with metal
    7 Syr grammar: to omit in pronunciation
ethpaal
    1 Syr to hide oneself
    2 Syr to cover oneself
    3 Syr to be wrapped up
    4 Syr to be covered
    5 Syr to be omitted
    6 Syr abcn aypxtm to be tied to a vine-prop
    7 Syr to be interrupted by noise
    8 Syr grammar: to be omitted in pronunciation


The word covered, in context, as used, means........covered.

Almost 90% of the time. I've found when I use that software, the word or phrase no matter the translation, hermeneutics or exegesis applied, always means what it says.

Almost invariably.

It's when Christians feel the need to get it to say what they want it to mean is always where the problem is.

Especially when they want it to mean something other than what it says.

Translated words and definitions taken from BibleWorks 9.0 <--- Handy software. You should try it. http://www.bibleworks.com/

Since: Jan 12

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#102452
May 24, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
Mr Captain, the religion or philosophy does not matter, considering the bible was written to be contradicting, so it can be used to justify any action, for any reason, with nothing more than a "I was told by god." Preachers are human, capable of as much evil and tyranny as anyone, and they held control of the book for about a century.
It is very easy to justify any vile and evil act with that book.
Well, you've gotta give the Bible some credit, just to play devil's advocate(ironically enough).

I agree it shouldn't be used to justify any political actions. But to me, the Bible has always been about a personal message to each Christian. And, at least my theory goes, if Christians abide by the full letter of that law, they should come together in their faith as one giant congregation whether they're physically next to one another or not.

A lot of good can come from the Bible and the tenets set down there. I think though that people forget that Jesus was about forgiveness and acceptance. Your road to salvation or damnation was on you, but Christ would help and it wasn't a Christian's job to condemn or force people into believing.

I've always thought the old "catch more flies with honey than vinegar" axiom applied to Christianity. If you want more people to follow God, then live up to the Word and be an example for people to follow, rather than indoctrinating them with dogman.

Also, a lot of Christians tend to forget (and I've been guilty of this too at a certain point in my life), that even though the Old Testament rules still apply (in our Christian estimation), that the New Testament was basically Jesus going, "Okay guys, remember all that stuff we already do. Yeah, all that and then add this." The this being the commandment to love and forgive. Which should, theoretically, make living in a world where not everyone shares your values no less harmonious.

Also, Machiavelli was more politician than tyrant. You want a tyrant, look up Rodrigo Borgia. THERE's a great example of someone abusing the Church for personal gain.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#102453
May 24, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Americans, can't speak German .... oh wait .... I'm American! Ack!
Me not Amerikatze

I is Afrikaner
Captain

Grand Junction, CO

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#102454
May 24, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
Mr Captain, the religion or philosophy does not matter, considering the bible was written to be contradicting, so it can be used to justify any action, for any reason, with nothing more than a "I was told by god." Preachers are human, capable of as much evil and tyranny as anyone, and they held control of the book for about a century.
It is very easy to justify any vile and evil act with that book.
Whatever has happened in your past, it must have concerned someone who professed to be a Christian but was either hypocritical or was only a Christian in name and not deeds. It is easy to do considering all the propaganda and confusion.

Even the reputation of Jesus Christ has been slandered by our mass media. But he is our true example for correct human behavior and He is the answer to end all of man's inhumanity to man. He is also the Redeemer.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

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#102455
May 24, 2012
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
As someone that have been posting with you for just about a year, it is a damn shame that you cannot comment on more threads, amigo.
Well, thanx.

I used to comment almost solely on the evolution debate forum, but would comment on practically every thread. If they had put up their little points system on that forum at the time, I would almost certainly have earned a crown along with the beta.

But I started posting on the atheist threads, and found some really neat people to get to know...not that there aren't some neat people on the evo threads...FossilBob being one good example.

Sadly (for me) the physics threads and the math threads are really, really lame. I also just recently looked in on the Civil War threads (one of my passions) and it was even worse. No new posts in 3 weeks and only 3 since the beginning of the year. Yikes.

“There's a feeling I get...”

Since: Jun 11

...when I look to the West

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#102456
May 24, 2012
 

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Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, thanx.
I used to comment almost solely on the evolution debate forum, but would comment on practically every thread. If they had put up their little points system on that forum at the time, I would almost certainly have earned a crown along with the beta.
But I started posting on the atheist threads, and found some really neat people to get to know...not that there aren't some neat people on the evo threads...FossilBob being one good example.
Sadly (for me) the physics threads and the math threads are really, really lame. I also just recently looked in on the Civil War threads (one of my passions) and it was even worse. No new posts in 3 weeks and only 3 since the beginning of the year. Yikes.
FossilBob is a true gentleman, and deliver clear cut logic each time, every time. Also a pity that he is not online more.

Yeah, the other threads are a bit stale. The nice thing about these threads, is that because they move so quick, the topic is worn out pretty quickly. Hence we touch on everything - meaning you will get to discuss some natural sciences, civil war, politics, etc.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

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#102457
May 24, 2012
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. How often have I heard things like "But it's still a bacteria(sic)".
LOL. They have no conception of how LARGE a clade bacteria are. Bacteria occupy the largest of the three main domains of life, Archaea, Bacteria, and Eukaryota. Animals and plants are tiny branches of branches of branches of the eukaryotes.
And, as you point out, the concept of "species" is not well defined. It can't be, because nature doesn't really care about our human need to classify things.
I like how you put it better, actually :)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

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#102458
May 24, 2012
 
Captain wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all who is "we" ? do you have a mouse in your pocket ?
Nazi = National Socialist Party
Hitler was trying to form an Aryan religion based upon Nordic Mythology. He was purposing to breed up a master race based upon survival of the fittest....this is another philosophy of Karl Marx.
You still haven't compared actual and factual numbers of those killed by genocide of Christianity vs communism.
You are trying to rewrite history to fit your world view,
We = people who know about history.

Yes, good for you. National Social Party. Now go read your history and learn how that differs from socialism and, more important to our discussion, communism.

Yes! You go Hitler's goals down.

No, you're mistaken about Marx. "Survival of the fittest" comes from Herbert Spencer. Darwin was annoyed, to say the least, about Spencer's misuse of evolutionary theory. Marx, furthermore, was not a Social Darwinist, although he understood that human social hierarchies are the product of evolution.

No, I'm not rewriting anything. The numbers won't help you. You have to learn more about history. People don't kill because they're atheists. People sometimes kill because they're religious. Basically, good people will be good, bad, bad. You're grossly oversimplifying if you think you can say "atheism makes for mass murders." That's political indoctrination and has no place in an adult conversation.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

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#102459
May 24, 2012
 

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Captain wrote:
<quoted text>
You poor misguided stepchild.
Atheism is based upon a belief system and personal faith = dogma
Communism has created in every instance a dictator that moved to genocide to make the citizens comply with their leadership method of fear and intimidation. It always caused complete economic collapse, even with most of the population under slavery. Look at North Korea today. The citizens are starving and must worship their dictator or be killed and it is because of the generosity of other nations that food shipments are slowing the rate of starvation. But these food shipments are being confiscated to feed loyal members of the military.
Atheism = communism as their favorite form of government.
Such foolishness !
How dishonest of you.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

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#102460
May 24, 2012
 
para0extra0ab wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, technically, if neanderthals grouped up and hunted together and ate and dwelled together, that would effectively mean that a true Communistic society was what got civiilization rolling.
Also the Amish are somewhat communisitic, and I don't see a whole lot of genocide going on there.
Communism fails for entirely different reasons than the fictional ones you seem so fond of.
Nicely written! Neanderthals had religion.

Hunter-gatherers are about as communist, in the sense of not really having private property or privacy, and about the most egalitarian societies, as you can get.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

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#102461
May 24, 2012
 

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Captain wrote:
<quoted text>
To say that you are an atheist and not a communist or a secular-humanist, is like saying I believe that Jesus Christ is my Atoning Savior, but I'm not a Christian.
The problem with a debate with an atheist is that he has no honesty and convictions. He only has deceit.
Yeah, you're not honest or worth bothering with.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

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#102462
May 24, 2012
 
Double Fine wrote:
<quoted text>
FossilBob is a true gentleman, and deliver clear cut logic each time, every time. Also a pity that he is not online more.
Yeah, the other threads are a bit stale. The nice thing about these threads, is that because they move so quick, the topic is worn out pretty quickly. Hence we touch on everything - meaning you will get to discuss some natural sciences, civil war, politics, etc.
Well, in the past he was online a lot on the Evo threads. He only came on the atheist threads occasionally. It's not really his thing. But the past few months he has had some family problems, mostly the health of his mother IIRC.

But, yeah, a good guy. Christian, and no doubts about it. But not in your face. Plus he is extremely knowledgeable about geology. I've learned a lot from him. A really good teacher.

He is also into military history, which is also a hobby of mine. So we occasionally discuss that. I recently got him into reading Cornwell's Sharpe series, historical fiction from the Napoleonic wars.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

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#102463
May 24, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
We = people who know about history.
Yes, good for you. National Social Party. Now go read your history and learn how that differs from socialism and, more important to our discussion, communism.
Yes! You go Hitler's goals down.
No, you're mistaken about Marx. "Survival of the fittest" comes from Herbert Spencer. Darwin was annoyed, to say the least, about Spencer's misuse of evolutionary theory. Marx, furthermore, was not a Social Darwinist, although he understood that human social hierarchies are the product of evolution.
No, I'm not rewriting anything. The numbers won't help you. You have to learn more about history. People don't kill because they're atheists. People sometimes kill because they're religious. Basically, good people will be good, bad, bad. You're grossly oversimplifying if you think you can say "atheism makes for mass murders." That's political indoctrination and has no place in an adult conversation.
I'm still reading on McPherson's Battlecry of Freedom. Big book. Or in this case, big Kindle file. According to McPherson, Marx was a big fan of Lincoln's during the Civil War. For one thing, Marx abhorred slavery. Plus the Republican party of that time was a supporter of higher wages for the working class and of providing them opportunities to improve themselves.

What a difference from the Republicans of today.

The Democrats of that time were much more like the Republicans of today...no Federal aid for the poor, no Federal money for infrastructure, no Federal aid for education, pro banking and big business...and more.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

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#102464
May 24, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, you're not honest or worth bothering with.
Captain clearly has no real understanding of atheism, communism or secular humanism. He has been told, most likely, to just lump all three into the same box and leave it at that. He doesn't know what any of them mean and probably doesn't care.

“Faith means not wanting to ”

Since: Nov 10

know what is true.

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#102465
May 24, 2012
 
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
The people in Japan may have a slightly different opinion.
I think you are the only person that thinks that the flooding that resulted from tsunami was a "global flood". They are generally well educated and not that short sighted.

“Faith means not wanting to ”

Since: Nov 10

know what is true.

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#102466
May 24, 2012
 
Captain wrote:
<quoted text>
To say that you are an atheist and not a communist or a secular-humanist, is like saying I believe that Jesus Christ is my Atoning Savior, but I'm not a Christian.
The problem with a debate with an atheist is that he has no honesty and convictions. He only has deceit.
Creating a strawman fallacy I see.

Why don't christians make real arguments? Only fallacies.

“Faith means not wanting to ”

Since: Nov 10

know what is true.

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#102467
May 24, 2012
 
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, you're not honest or worth bothering with.
I swear fundies christian only lie because the get some sought sexual reward for it. It is the only logical reason I can find to explain why the do it so much.

“Faith means not wanting to ”

Since: Nov 10

know what is true.

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#102468
May 24, 2012
 

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Atomic_G wrote:
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Creating a strawman fallacy I see.
Why don't christians make real arguments? Only fallacies.
Sorry did not mean to sound like I was generalise, I was referring to godbot fundie christians.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

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#102469
May 24, 2012
 

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Captain wrote:
<quoted text>
....Even the reputation of Jesus Christ has been slandered by our mass media......
Chrisitanity has been making Jesus look like an ahole for 1700 years.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

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#102470
May 24, 2012
 
Captain wrote:
<quoted text>
..... I believe that Jesus Christ is my Atoning Savior, but I'm not a Christian.....
I beleive in the Atonement of Jesus and all you fungitards tell me I am an atheist.

You are truly a moron.

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