Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Gott ist tot”

Since: Dec 10

Amarillo, TX

#61636 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>Then, if you are an atheist you should never say, "There is no God" and certainly not, "I can prove there is no God". We seem to be in agreement here.
Yes, I would agree that the existence of god cannot be disproven. Because one cannot disprove the existence of anything. The point I was making was that the burden of proof lies with the theists and not the atheists.

I'm an atheist because I do not believe in gods. I do not believe in gods, because no one can prove to me that a gods exists. I never said "there is no God", so I don't understand why it is you're telling be not to say it.

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61637 Oct 30, 2011
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Which God are you talking about and why not the others? Please be specific as to why or why not on each one.
http://www.godchecker.com
I told you to take your pick.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#61638 Oct 30, 2011
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
But Christ specifically identified his God as that of the Old Testament. Likewise, Muhammad identified his as that of Jesus, Moses, and Abraham. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God just as Dieu is in French, Gott is in German, Gud in Dutch. I'm curious, though: if you believe that the three are distinct gods, are you pantheistic or do you believe that only one of them exists? If the latter, which one? If "none of the above," what god do you believe in?
I would suggest this may describe the Abrahamic religions(and others), but Christianity in specific, better than, "Monotheism", Henotheism" et`al. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolatrism
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#61639 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that his poor choice of words were due to alcohol consumption.
Just curious, how do you know if I am a Native American or not?
Why would you think I care, if you are, are not?
Was there a particular post that made you think I did?

“Gott ist tot”

Since: Dec 10

Amarillo, TX

#61640 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>Ever heard of Christ or Mohammed? If you can't prove God does not exist, why are you still trying? You have already capitulated to my point. I think you just want to argue now. Why bother?
Again... I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND I REPEAT, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND FOR THE THIRD, AND HOPEFULLY FINAL TIME, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. Disproving the existence of God is impossible, as I've already stated.

And yes, I have heard of Jesus Christ and Mohammed. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God. And Muslims believe that Mohammed is the prophet of the one true God. However... this does not mean that Christians and Muslims worship different gods. Remember when I said earlier that they believe different things about that god? This would be an example of that.

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61641 Oct 30, 2011
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
But Christ specifically identified his God as that of the Old Testament. Likewise, Muhammad identified his as that of Jesus, Moses, and Abraham. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God just as Dieu is in French, Gott is in German, Gud in Dutch. I'm curious, though: if you believe that the three are distinct gods, are you pantheistic or do you believe that only one of them exists? If the latter, which one? If "none of the above," what god do you believe in?
Only a fool would not know that there is a marked difference between the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. You are now quoting Jesus as an authority. Being a little bit of a hypocrite there, aren't you? You are very wrong. Allah is indeed the name of the Muslim god. Ask any Muslim. I am not a believer in any of those gods. You know full well my beliefs. I am, however a theist. I only dispute your ability to prove that any of them don't exist. I base my thoughts on my beliefs. What do you base yours on?

Since: Oct 11

London, UK

#61642 Oct 30, 2011
And when We intend to destroy a city.We command its affluent but they defiantly disobey therein; so the word i.e., decree comes into effect upon it and We destroy it with complete destruction.

- Messenger of Allah

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61643 Oct 30, 2011
RogerSmith1992 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again... I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND I REPEAT, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND FOR THE THIRD, AND HOPEFULLY FINAL TIME, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. Disproving the existence of God is impossible, as I've already stated.
And yes, I have heard of Jesus Christ and Mohammed. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God. And Muslims believe that Mohammed is the prophet of the one true God. However... this does not mean that Christians and Muslims worship different gods. Remember when I said earlier that they believe different things about that god? This would be an example of that.
Only one example among a multitude of examples. The Christian God and the Muslim God bear little resemblance.

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61644 Oct 30, 2011
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you think I care, if you are, are not?
Was there a particular post that made you think I did?
Why did you butt in?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#61645 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>I told you to take your pick.
So then the FSM works for you as well as any stupid buy bull god?

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#61646 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>How do you know his degrees are real? Nothing he says indicates that. It is obvious only to those of you that want it to be real.
You should be ashamed of yourself claiming to be a "careful observer".
It is my "logic, reasoning and English" that has exposed you.
Hey, It's sad that you are out of the loop, but if you were meant to be in, you already would be.

Some of us know his history, we understand why he has made certain choices, IANS is not an unknown, as some other posters are. We have followed the links, seen the news stories, and recognized as truth, these things he has shared with us.
I find it telling that I've seen no one, saying great things about you. Oh well carry on, casting aspersions. I guess it is something that you are well practiced at and thoroughly capable of.

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61647 Oct 30, 2011
Captain Pedantic wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup. He did. I was not surprised.
Wow. You're not surprised at the truth? I can't believe that.

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61648 Oct 30, 2011
RogerSmith1992 wrote:
<quoted text>
Again... I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND I REPEAT, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. AND FOR THE THIRD, AND HOPEFULLY FINAL TIME, I AM NOT TRYING TO DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD. Disproving the existence of God is impossible, as I've already stated.
And yes, I have heard of Jesus Christ and Mohammed. Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God. And Muslims believe that Mohammed is the prophet of the one true God. However... this does not mean that Christians and Muslims worship different gods. Remember when I said earlier that they believe different things about that god? This would be an example of that.
I have given you the explanation you asked for.

Since: Oct 10

Mesa, AZ

#61649 Oct 30, 2011
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, It's sad that you are out of the loop, but if you were meant to be in, you already would be.
Some of us know his history, we understand why he has made certain choices, IANS is not an unknown, as some other posters are. We have followed the links, seen the news stories, and recognized as truth, these things he has shared with us.
I find it telling that I've seen no one, saying great things about you. Oh well carry on, casting aspersions. I guess it is something that you are well practiced at and thoroughly capable of.
In other words, you base it on nothing reliable.

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#61650 Oct 30, 2011
pmessages wrote:
And when We intend to destroy a city.We command its affluent but they defiantly disobey therein; so the word i.e., decree comes into effect upon it and We destroy it with complete destruction.
- Messenger of Allah
Thanks for sharing your mythology.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#61651 Oct 30, 2011
RogerSmith1992 wrote:
<quoted text>
Disproving a negative is pointless and impossible. If I told you that I was telepathic, the burden of proof would fall on me to prove that I was telepathic. The burden of proof would not fall on you to prove that I wasn't telepathic (which you can't do). Theists are the ones that are making the positive assertion that God/gods exist, therefore the burden of proof falls on them and not on the atheists. Asking me to prove to you that gods don't exist, is the same as asking me to prove to you that fairies or unicorns or dragons don't exist. I can't do it, and I shouldn't have to.
I think you mean proving a negative (to disprove a negative, prove the positive). Actually, the logic isn't all that hard. You can confirm the antecedent by completing the statement, "If <statement>, then God does not exist" and then go about showing the statement to be true. You can deny the consequence: "If God exists, then <statement>" and then go about showing the statement to be false. You can invoke the law of non-contradiction by showing that the god in question is believed to possess qualities that are incompatible with each other.

In each of the first two methods, though, you have to show that the logical relation between the two statements is valid. "If my hair is red, then God doesn't exist" won't do. Nor will, "If God exists, then my wife is fat." The third method has been used to disprove the Bible God to the satisfaction of many people, but that logic could also prove the Bible to be fallible rather than its God to be nonexistent. But the logic does clearly show that if the Bible is accurate, then its God does not exist and that if that God does exist, then the Bible's accounts of Him are flawed. Nor does the logic eliminate the possibility of both a flawed Bible and the absence of its God.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#61652 Oct 30, 2011
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
... but then reiterated them, right?
No, he was sincere. After apologizing, his behavior to me changed considerably. He has since sent me further apologies with reflection on his morality as a Christian.

I accept them without hesitation and believe his sincerity. Boss tries to be a good man. He's trapped in a Christianity worldview, finds arguing with atheists compelling, and is over-matched in every possible way. It's natural for him to be frustrated and to take it out on those who frustrate him.

In the end, after going through this growing process, I believe he is a better Christian man for it.

You have to realize, it is an impossible, losing argument. It's not tenable, there is no position of defense for a faith based religion. The only recourse, if you are not to give it up, is to hold to the morality that Jesus (or whatever religion) preached - live the "Golden rule," admit you cannot provide evidence, withdraw from actual argument and lead what you believe is a moral life, an example of spirituality.

I believe Boss came to this realization and, though yet compelled by the "does God exist" arguments, he approaches them from a position of "I accept because of faith and I'd like to show you why." Or, at least, I'd very much like to believe the above.

“Gott ist tot”

Since: Dec 10

Amarillo, TX

#61653 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>Only one example among a multitude of examples. The Christian God and the Muslim God bear little resemblance.
A statement like this shows me that you know little or nothing about Islam or Christianity. To prove a point, I'm going to offer you a challenge. I want you to do a little research and find differences between the Christianity and Islam. For every difference you find, I will find two similarities. So how about it?

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#61654 Oct 30, 2011
NightSerf wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you mean proving a negative (to disprove a negative, prove the positive). Actually, the logic isn't all that hard. You can confirm the antecedent by completing the statement, "If <statement>, then God does not exist" and then go about showing the statement to be true. You can deny the consequence: "If God exists, then <statement>" and then go about showing the statement to be false. You can invoke the law of non-contradiction by showing that the god in question is believed to possess qualities that are incompatible with each other.
In each of the first two methods, though, you have to show that the logical relation between the two statements is valid. "If my hair is red, then God doesn't exist" won't do. Nor will, "If God exists, then my wife is fat." The third method has been used to disprove the Bible God to the satisfaction of many people, but that logic could also prove the Bible to be fallible rather than its God to be nonexistent. But the logic does clearly show that if the Bible is accurate, then its God does not exist and that if that God does exist, then the Bible's accounts of Him are flawed. Nor does the logic eliminate the possibility of both a flawed Bible and the absence of its God.
Have you done some computer programming? I would bet a dollar that you have.

If A > 18
Then Let B = "Legal Age"
Else Let B = "Goin' to jail."

“Gott ist tot”

Since: Dec 10

Amarillo, TX

#61655 Oct 30, 2011
RESP0NSE wrote:
<quoted text>I have given you the explanation you asked for.
No you have not. You have shown me theological differences between Christianity and Islam. But you have not demonstrated to me the point at which Christians and Muslims stopped believing in the God of Abraham, and started believing in seperate Gods.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Stump a theist with 2 questions 3 min Patrick 39
Atheism vs. Theism: Knowns and Unknowns 13 min Cordwainer Trout 52
Bill Maher's "dirty secret": He's deeply religi... 1 hr Thinking 3
Our world came from nothing? 1 hr Thinking 459
Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038 (Apr '12) 1 hr Dak-Original 22,211
Why I have rejected ATHEISM because of the JEWS 2 hr Thinking 3
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 15 hr Patrick 925
•••

Atheism People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••