Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255567 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Patrick

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#232396 Jul 12, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Noah's Ark was not made by an individual; according to Christian mythology - his family (eight incestuous people)managed and built the ark.
They also managed to create different species of Homo sapiens, repopulating the entire planet!
Think of it... eight family members create black; yellow; red; brown; and white humans.
Some have diseases relative to their color such as sickle cell anemia.
< Thanks for sharing your mythology>
Fact: Titanic hit iceberg, sunk, we found the wreckage - proof the Titanic existed.
Fact: noah's Ark has never been found.
The entire story is impossible.
Observation:
The "true believers" who want to share their religious views with you practically never want you to share your irrreligious views with them.
Its a joke ...take a deep breath and move on?

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#232397 Jul 12, 2014
CunningLinguist wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Noah's Ark was not made by an individual; according to Christian mythology - his family (eight incestuous people)managed and built the ark.
They also managed to create different species of Homo sapiens, repopulating the entire planet!
Think of it... eight family members create black; yellow; red; brown; and white humans.
Some have diseases relative to their color such as sickle cell anemia.
< Thanks for sharing your mythology>
Fact: Titanic hit iceberg, sunk, we found the wreckage - proof the Titanic existed.
Fact: noah's Ark has never been found.
The entire story is impossible.
Observation:
The "true believers" who want to share their religious views with you practically never want you to share your irrreligious views with them.
Did God really flood the World ..?..tis , possible if you melt the ice caps ..

My , take .." most of human civilization resided on the Mediterranean ", an earth quake , volcano ...??..that sea swamped it's banks ..millions died ..

as , for the Ark ..it made shore on a mountain top in Asia , of course anything salvageable was taken ..as , for the rest ..it is under a glacier ..the , snow falls ice accumulates , the snow falls ..etc..etc..

Its like trying to find a terrorist , or that Indonesian plane ...searching for the needle , when we can't even find the haystack ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#232398 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
How long does it take to reach infinite distance traveling at X miles per hour?
What is the distance that immediately precedes that distance?
Since the immediate preceding distance is finite, how come the next distance is not finite?
No infinities possible in physical reality.
Sorry, I know it fucks up your science fiction for you.
.."AuraMytha" ..Has he convinced you ..??

I sincerely hope not ..

..Infinity and eternity ...do exist .

but , our minds could never really comprehend numbers like that .

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#232399 Jul 12, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do religious people - deists and theists - always hate infinity?
..Because ...IT'S GAY.

..duh..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#232400 Jul 12, 2014
River Tam wrote:
Anybody want a doughnut?
..glazed..??

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#232401 Jul 12, 2014
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you mean. Belief is easy for the indoctrinated, the abused, the lonely and a recovering addict, If you have not suffered from one of these, you most likely will not fall for a religion.
Why did you, if you are, pick christianity? Would you have picked christianity, if you lived in Iran and your parents would muslim? The chances are very slim that you would have.
If you were raise on one of the Pacific islands, 600 years ago, would you have picked christainity? No.
So, you had to have been born into the right family, at the right time and in the right place to be a christian, the odds decrease drastically if just one of these elements are missing.
Now, how did I escape christianity when all the elements were intact. Everyone in my family, all that were known to me, attended a christian church nearly every Sunday. All said a blessing before meals. I attended Sunday school, all the youth programs, and meetings I could. How did I escape?
I made a terrible mistake! When I was about 10, I had my doubts. When I was 12, I was pretty sure, but I thought, my family all believed and they were not idiots, it must be me! Maybe I missed a part of the bible that would make it clear for me. Once I turned 16, I skipped church as often as I could. At 18, I left home and only attended church when the Drill Sargents made me. When my first child came along, I let the fear from my indoctrination kick in and thought, to save his soul, I had better get him to church. I did put it off until he was 9 or so. I still did not believe, but indoctrination overrode my intellect. After taking him for a few years, I asked him what he thought. He said something like, "No, I don't believe all that but I like the kids." While sitting in church, the preacher did his normal bit of cherry picking the bible. but when he was done reading from the OT reading, I kept reading. I often wondered why they read only a few or two and then said, "Shut your bibles and let us pray." It was because they don't want you to read the rest and what christian would, when the preacher is saying a prayer?
When I got to the part of slavery and the part of that tells what happens when the male slave decides to leave. I knew I was right in not believing. What god would make a law that states a man can own another man's wife and children and pass those people down to their heirs like cattle?
Then I read about forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist and how the father was to be given the 'virgin bride' price for her! No supreme being would ever come up with this crap! This is 500 BCE and before man coming up with this crap!
..Whoa..I really did not expect to taken to the task and shoved in the deep end ..

that silly billy I replied to ; my response " Well , then Christianity should be easy breezy "

Said , " Lie be pusillanimous and a hypocrite ..and , you too can be a Christian ."

The " cherry picking " part .. I feel is indeed dishonest , but if you do have a judeochristian upbringing ..you , must've heard the tale where the highpriest stands before all the people of God ..and READS the laws of Moses ....that sounds like torture ..

You do not understand slavery , the Master procured the wife for the slave , it was never his property ..if he does his time and gets a slave woman pregnant ..and wants to leave ..FINE.

but , you can't take what never belonged to you ...

Ah , rape ..the olden days ..Women were valued ' only ' for their wombs and virginity ..

a rape survivor had ' no ' prospects ... sorry...

but , if you fucked someone and then, were forced to provide for her .. and , forbidden to marry again .. there is a modicum of justice there ..

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#232402 Jul 12, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Their religion is as equally likely to be real as yours is.
Do you ever lose sleep at night b/c Muslims "know" that you are going to hell?
..touche'..

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#232403 Jul 12, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you are not without belief.
You believe there is no god. You are confronted with the proposition of a god, and you reject the proposition, but you do not know if you are correct.
The theist rejects the proposition that there is no god, but he does not know if he is correct.
You have a belief, same as the theist has a belief.
Yes I am lacking belief in a god or gods, much like I lack a belief in the Tooth Fairy.

I do not believe that there is no god, I do not see any evidence that there is a god. There are billions of things for which there is no evidence, am I an athoothfairian? an asantaclausian. You can say it over and over until you are blue in the face, it does not make it true.

A theist believes in a god or gods. An atheist lacks belief in a god or gods.

I don't believe in the BBT; I follow the evidence that leads to that conclusion and will quickly change as the data dictates.
Lab28

Anaheim, CA

#232404 Jul 13, 2014
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you mean. Belief is easy for the indoctrinated, the abused, the lonely and a recovering addict, If you have not suffered from one of these, you most likely will not fall for a religion.
You missed the poor right there too, Christianity is big with poor people. I suppose if you're a person who just doesn't have any problems you would never "fall for religion." After all what need would you have for a power greater than yourself if you are in complete control of every part of your life. I still haven't met that person.
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you, if you are, pick christianity? Would you have picked christianity, if you lived in Iran and your parents would muslim? The chances are very slim that you would have.
If you were raise on one of the Pacific islands, 600 years ago, would you have picked christainity? No.
So, you had to have been born into the right family, at the right time and in the right place to be a christian, the odds decrease drastically if just one of these elements are missing.
Now, how did I escape christianity when all the elements were intact. Everyone in my family, all that were known to me, attended a christian church nearly every Sunday. All said a blessing before meals. I attended Sunday school, all the youth programs, and meetings I could. How did I escape?
That's an excellent point, since if you weren't born in a country that allows freedom of religion during a time when our culture is getting less and less involved in religion you probably would not have picked atheism. So it's a self-refuting argument, but nevertheless a good point.

You also can't not hear yourself parroting the same rhetoric as most internet atheists do. Talking about Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. I know they serve as examples of false beliefs being pushed on children and fully understand the point you are making.

I've also heard the idea that there is no evidence of a God enough times to understand that it's something you truly believe. Good, got it. There is plenty of evidence either way, but no absolute proof. It would be a waste of time for me to go research it, and truncate it into a post on this forum, considering how many times you've posted you've probably heard it anyways.

My point has been to present consistent philosophy, as it's what lit me up. But choice has always been the dilemma hasn't it? We can all choose who we serve.

I'll leave you with this quote by Martin Luther

"Whatever your heart clings to and confides in, that is really your God."

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232405 Jul 13, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. Infinity cannot be reached. That's why it is not a realizable value - A PHYSICAL INFINITY WOULD MEAN INFINITY IS REACHED. It is a blatant contradiction.
Stoeger points out the contradiction, and he is correct. Whether Stoeger is a theologian is of exactly no relevance.
Even George Cantor, the most famous author of transfinite math, said it has no application in physical reality.
The ONLY legitimate application of "infinity" is in theoretical mathematics.
Aura Mythra, Polymath, etc. do not know the difference in transfinite math theory and physical reality.
Physicists are becoming more and more prone to using the term in cosmology, which is erroneous, and the critical reader should take notice of the fallacy.
So you’re saying that any measurable quantity that is increasing and will continue to increase forever is not an infinity because we can measure it?
B: Correct. It’s not an infinity.
H: Because we can measure it?
B: Correct.
H: But then it gets bigger.
B: Correct. And we can measure that, too.
H: So it’s not an infinity , despite that it continues to increase, forever because-
B:-because we can measure it. Yes.
H: Ok, so let’s take an example – the size of the universe, expanding forever
B: Measured, not infinite.
H: Oh, it got bigger.
B: Measured.
H: Bigger
Measured
Bigger
Measured
(continues for the next several decades unabated until Buck is nearing the sad end)
Meas…urr…eedd (urk!)
Bigger. Oh, you’re dead! Well, I guess the universe continued to expand, so it must be an in-fi
(from the ghostly beyond)~measured~
Bigger!
~measured~
(continues for a few more years, then Hiding is about to pass)
Bi..g..g…
~measured~ ha! I finally got the last measurement in, Hiding, you have fa-
~bigger!~
~measured~
~bigger~
~measured~
~bigger~
(and so the two ghosts argue for eternity, never reaching an end. Almost as if they were chasing…infinity)

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#232406 Jul 13, 2014
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..touche'..
I win, I win, I win!!!

“Seventh son”

Since: Dec 10

Will Prevail

#232407 Jul 13, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
So you’re saying that any measurable quantity that is increasing and will continue to increase forever is not an infinity because we can measure it?
B: Correct. It’s not an infinity.
H: Because we can measure it?
B: Correct.
H: But then it gets bigger.
B: Correct. And we can measure that, too.
H: So it’s not an infinity , despite that it continues to increase, forever because-
B:-because we can measure it. Yes.
H: Ok, so let’s take an example – the size of the universe, expanding forever
B: Measured, not infinite.
H: Oh, it got bigger.
B: Measured.
H: Bigger
Measured
Bigger
Measured
(continues for the next several decades unabated until Buck is nearing the sad end)
Meas…urr…eedd (urk!)
Bigger. Oh, you’re dead! Well, I guess the universe continued to expand, so it must be an in-fi
(from the ghostly beyond)~measured~
Bigger!
~measured~
(continues for a few more years, then Hiding is about to pass)
Bi..g..g…
~measured~ ha! I finally got the last measurement in, Hiding, you have fa-
~bigger!~
~measured~
~bigger~
~measured~
~bigger~
(and so the two ghosts argue for eternity, never reaching an end. Almost as if they were chasing…infinity)
In the scenario I gave you, any attempt to measure the distance will never succeed in measuring it's entirety. There will never be a measure long enough because it's physically impossible to measure what can never be causally connected to our portion of the universe. We can imagine it has a limit but never know. We can only know it's much larger than what can be measured. So you have to say is this infinite or can we imagine that it's not. Because by definition it's infinite.

1.limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.

unlimited or unmeasurable in extent of space, duration of time,

Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.

having no limits or boundaries in time, space, extent, or magnitude

Those were 4 different dictionary's and it meets that criteria.

Nope, it doesn't matter how much he squirms away from it it the mind boggling reality.

“Game Over”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#232408 Jul 13, 2014
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..glazed..??
Jelly

Tehee Candor

“A Time for laughter and ...”

Since: Apr 13

A Time to be candid.

#232409 Jul 13, 2014
Our church rarely serves donuts. Must be about time to move on and find another denomination.

:O

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#232410 Jul 13, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're being real. I knew you had a better reason than what you said about Matthew 5.
Doubt, is not an absence of belief. Doubt is actually an opposing belief. So, build upon the doubt, and see where it leads you.....
Your entire post would make prefect sense if:

I only read the bits you mentioned.

I had not read the bible myself.

your god did not claim to be omniscient and never changing.

I don't doubt anymore, I haven't for years. While I cannot say there is no god, I can say that the god of the bible is man made, the bible itself proves that.

“cdesign proponentsists”

Since: Jul 09

Pittsburgh, PA

#232411 Jul 13, 2014
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>You missed the poor right there too, Christianity is big with poor people. I suppose if you're a person who just doesn't have any problems you would never "fall for religion." After all what need would you have for a power greater than yourself if you are in complete control of every part of your life. I still haven't met that person.
Religion is big with the poor, not just christianity. You went from being poor to a person will no problems and in complete control. No middle ground?

There are plenty of more powerful things than me. Nature, big corporations, governments and the like. I have to abide by and deal with them all. No supernatural powers required,
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>That's an excellent point, since if you weren't born in a country that allows freedom of religion during a time when our culture is getting less and less involved in religion you probably would not have picked atheism. So it's a self-refuting argument, but nevertheless a good point.
That was good, but not really. A lack of belief comes from knowledge and lack of indoctrination. Everyone in my family is a full blown believer and I was with several of them every step of the way. The indoctrination failed to take hold of me. There are some highly intelligent people that believe in god and if you ever talk to them about their religion, they ignore their normal objectiveness and most of the bible. They would never do that with any other subject, except for possibly politics.
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>You also can't not hear yourself parroting the same rhetoric as most internet atheists do. Talking about Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. I know they serve as examples of false beliefs being pushed on children and fully understand the point you are making.
I've also heard the idea that there is no evidence of a God enough times to understand that it's something you truly believe. Good, got it. There is plenty of evidence either way, but no absolute proof. It would be a waste of time for me to go research it, and truncate it into a post on this forum, considering how many times you've posted you've probably heard it anyways.
Is saying, 2+2=4 parroting the math teacher or is it stating the facts as we know it. Parroting is when you really don't understand what you are talking about, you just repeat what you've heard.

The evidence for god that I have heard.

Look at the tree. Not after a hurricane knocked it over!!!!

Look at the miracle of birth! But not when the baby is still born or its heart is on the outside of its chest!!

Explain how we got here if there wasn't a god!

All these bits of 'evidence' are not really evidence, now are they? Seeing an adult book shore get hit by lightening is evidence god hates pornography, but when it hits a church or a huge wooden statue of Jesus!!! That is another matter completely!!
Lab28 wrote:
<quoted text>My point has been to present consistent philosophy, as it's what lit me up. But choice has always been the dilemma hasn't it? We can all choose who we serve.
I'll leave you with this quote by Martin Luther
"Whatever your heart clings to and confides in, that is really your God."
I serve the human race. I try to help them whenever I can.

I will leave you with a quote from George Carlin, "Religion is bullshit!"

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232412 Jul 13, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Infinity in calculations are a problem, the world in logic and reason has no use in finding one, as we want to make sense of everything and infinite sum makes no sense.
Even when calculating black holes where space is infinitly curved and gravity becomes infinite is a problem. We want to think there is something missing in Einsteins GR,
because it isn't supposed to be . The same with the volume of space, and it makes no sense to us logically that it maybe infinite. Buck is right about that part,
and to know for sure whether space is actually is infinite and by that I mean that to know whether it is truly boundless is impossible to ever find because of the phenomena
I have been explaining.
The math that adds up to an infinite length is time dependent on the travel toward the event horizon. But we know that the farther away the faster the universe is accelerating
away so it appears the distance past the horizon has already moved into infinity. All the measurements done by WMAP and The Sloan Digital Sky Survey support the idea that the
universe actually is infinite, which basically means , there are some things beyond human comprehension and human ability, or rather beyond the physical ability to be overcome ever
as far as this universe is concerned. This isn't good news for us and makes it hard to understand how the universe came to be and what exactly is going on here.
But even worse it makes it impossible to even find out, but then thats why NASA and all who study this usually end it with, space is flat and probably infinite.
We just dont want to accept that it is, while admitting it's what the data is showing.
If the data shows something is infinite, the data is wrong, because it's impossible.

Same as a married bachelor is impossible.

It's understandable why one can claim to be a married bachelor if he abandons the meaning of either "married" or "bachelor".

That's the only way you get an infinite universe.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232413 Jul 13, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> In the scenario I gave you, any attempt to measure the distance will never succeed in measuring it's entirety. There will never be a measure long enough because it's physically impossible to measure what can never be causally connected to our portion of the universe. We can imagine it has a limit but never know. We can only know it's much larger than what can be measured. So you have to say is this infinite or can we imagine that it's not. Because by definition it's infinite.
1.limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.
unlimited or unmeasurable in extent of space, duration of time,
Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.
having no limits or boundaries in time, space, extent, or magnitude
Those were 4 different dictionary's and it meets that criteria.
Nope, it doesn't matter how much he squirms away from it it the mind boggling reality.
It's only min-boggling when people lie about it, saying it's something it's not.

"Greater than any large value" proves the physical infinite cannot exist.

It's extent would be greater than its extent.

The extent of the physical universe has a value. We don't know what it is, and it doesn't matter whether we know what it is. If it is physical, it's extent has a value.

Infinity, by definition, is greater than that physical value.

Or any value.

Infinity is unreachable.

If it were reached, it would no longer be infinity.

If your expanding universe reached infinity, it would no longer be infinity.

There can never be a time when the universe is infinite in extent.

Never.

Your contention to the contrary is not "mind boggling". It is bull shit.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#232414 Jul 13, 2014
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I am lacking belief in a god or gods, much like I lack a belief in the Tooth Fairy.
I do not believe that there is no god, I do not see any evidence that there is a god. There are billions of things for which there is no evidence, am I an athoothfairian? an asantaclausian. You can say it over and over until you are blue in the face, it does not make it true.
A theist believes in a god or gods. An atheist lacks belief in a god or gods.
I don't believe in the BBT; I follow the evidence that leads to that conclusion and will quickly change as the data dictates.
Try being honest.

You believe there are no gods.

Simply lacking belief is not atheism, and it is not what you are expressing.

You express rejection of the proposition that there is a god. You have a belief.

“True Blue”

Since: Jun 13

Opal-Hearted Land

#232415 Jul 13, 2014
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's just clarify here. The Princeton Engineering Research Anomalies lab - located in ... Princeton, one of the top universities in the world - produces results that are significant, repeatable and measurable. I likewise have equations that can take their data and graphically represent it on a time + distance axis with undeniable fit. We can subsequently find exact brain waves that describe such information flow and we can model it via computers - and more.
You believe in a deity that has no evidence, has never been seen and is just something you grew up with.
And you're calling me "outlandish"?
That's awesome.
It's true actually, because "outlandish" merely means an outlander = foreigner.

Definition 4:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/outlandish

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